The "Spirit of 47" project

  • Thread starter Thread starter PhilGood
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zbert said:
I own a Royer mod V67. Thing sounds great. After they use it singers usually look to see the model number of the mic. I just tell them it's a V67 on steroids.
As a matter of fact I bought this mic from Koji. I think he said that Phil here changed the capsule to the 367 from the original mod. A very sweet mic.
Click to expand...

Actually that mic has a single sided CEK-89 capsule*. The mic that Phil worked on is the other one with the double-sided 89 (remember you were asking me if I felt there was enough difference between the two).
The only reason I parted with that Royer-modded 67 is because I knew Phil was cooking up a Royer modded Nova with a CEK-367 capsule for me which has turned out to be a very, very sweet mic!

*EDIT: here's the FS thread: https://homerecording.com/bbs/showthread.php?t=242829
 
zbert said:
My Bad on the capsule and congrats on the marriage!
Click to expand...

No problem-- I just wanted to be clear because I got mentioned in your post :)
The cek-89 seems to be good enough for Pearlman to use in the baby Pearlman :)
... and thanks dude!
 
ittam said:
Suberb!
Here´s my effort/version.

Matti
Click to expand...

So what it your impression of the sound and changes on your mic?

Looks like yours is a modification of the mic's existing circuit and adding the M7 capsule, whereas my version is an attempt to stay true to the original U47 circuit design principles and achieve a way to preserve similar behavior to the U47 but with more readily available components.

The whole idea behind my design was because of a lack of supply of the VF14 (and how expensive it is) and the problems associated with trying to use substitute parts in the original design as opposed to assembling parts that work together on the same principles. I did my best to find a tube that could be wired similar to the V/E/UF14 series and match transformer impedance with a transformer that was permeable enough to reduce distortion, provide similar frequency response and coloration and have good headroom.

For example, instead of trying to swap the VF14 with a nuvistor tube or an EF86, which doesn't match the U47's transformer, I tried to find a system that would work in harmony to achieve an appropriate match.

Also, I find that the MXL 960's grill is a pretty close match to the grill in the U47 with the exception that the fine mesh is missing. What I'd really like to do is replace the grill mesh with the exact same sandwiching as the U47, so the grill EQ would behave the same. Removing mesh isn't always the best answer in modifying a mic. It's the combination of wire thickness and spacing and the combination of grill materials that boosts the 5khz and 10khz peaks in the 47 with the dip in the sibilance areas that causes the mics presence and ability to cut through a mix. Without that grill configuration the capsule is more forgiving, but looses the signature presence that the U47 has.

Like I said, this is the "spirit" of the 47. Keeping as much of the natural attributes of the original while matching more available components to do the job, even though some will produce a slightly different sound.
 
Yep, mine is pretty much modifyed in the lines of
Apex mods. discussed here, but when I found these capsules from
Prodigy forums I decided to try these and like the sound much.
I have one M7 type capsule left for my second project.
By no means I claim my mic sounds like an U47 but much better
than the original Alctron ( obviously ).

Cheers

Matti

P.S. the mount is from the same source as yours, I bet
 
Headbasket mods

First, congratulations on some very nice work. I've actually been referring people to you for Apex 460 mods and other things I'd prefer not to get involved with.

Your comment about grille mesh mods caught my eye and I wanted to comment on it:

PhilGood said:
Removing mesh isn't always the best answer in modifying a mic. It's the combination of wire thickness and spacing and the combination of grill materials that boosts the 5khz and 10khz peaks in the 47 with the dip in the sibilance areas that causes the mics presence and ability to cut through a mix. Without that grill configuration the capsule is more forgiving, but looses the signature presence that the U47 has.
Click to expand...

Like Stephen Paul in his MIX Magazine article about classic mics, you make a good point about grille mesh layers in the U47 and their affect on both presence and sibilance control. And I agree with your strategy - that to emulate sound of the U47, the physical dimensions, layering and mesh weave of the headbasket have to be considered along with all the other parameters. But to my ears, these multi-pole mechanical filters come with a price - as you've hinted.

Despite some inherent timbral similarity between some Oktava mics and some Neumann mics, I'm not trying to emulate the U47 or any other Neumann. But rather I'm interested in hearing what the Oktava capsules are capable of delivering when freed from the time and frequency domain artifacts of acoustical filtering. So for the Oktava LDC mics I work on, I really prefer the open, tight transient sound of a single layer headbasket - something that is readily heard in the accuracy of "S", "F" and "Ch" sounds delivered with less time-smeared HF energy.
 
Plans?

New member here, really glad to have found this forum and this thread!

I'm really wanting to mod a 960, any plans to release a schemo/parts list? Seems like the Peluso capsule would do the trick for those of us that can't get the 'PhilGood special' M7 capsule, most of the other parts seem easy enough to source, and I am all about setting up a killer 'Spirit of 47' With credits to the designer of course!

I've been building tube guitar amps/stereos for a while, should have enough skill to not mutilate otherwise good parts! Lack a little knowledge on some of the details of condensor mics, but from the schemo's I've seem they are pretty straight-forward. Like guitar amps, they seem to require the right subtle circuit and top notch parts.

Thanks in advance, really hope you can release some details, I'm kinda itching to make a cool mic and this sound like the one!
 
ittam said:
Yep, mine is pretty much modifyed in the lines of
Apex mods. discussed here, but when I found these capsules from
Prodigy forums I decided to try these and like the sound much.
I have one M7 type capsule left for my second project.
By no means I claim my mic sounds like an U47 but much better
than the original Alctron ( obviously ).

Cheers

Matti

P.S. the mount is from the same source as yours, I bet
Click to expand...

It probably sounds very similar to what I did to my TCM 1050. The mods in the circuit made it a quite useful mic. Putting in the Peluso capsule took it to a whole new level. It has a very similar sound, but with a bit more edge and projection. It's going to be a very good tool to have!
 
MichaelJoly said:
First, congratulations on some very nice work. I've actually been referring people to you for Apex 460 mods and other things I'd prefer not to get involved with.

Your comment about grille mesh mods caught my eye and I wanted to comment on it:



Like Stephen Paul in his MIX Magazine article about classic mics, you make a good point about grille mesh layers in the U47 and their affect on both presence and sibilance control. And I agree with your strategy - that to emulate sound of the U47, the physical dimensions, layering and mesh weave of the headbasket have to be considered along with all the other parameters. But to my ears, these multi-pole mechanical filters come with a price - as you've hinted.

Despite some inherent timbral similarity between some Oktava mics and some Neumann mics, I'm not trying to emulate the U47 or any other Neumann. But rather I'm interested in hearing what the Oktava capsules are capable of delivering when freed from the time and frequency domain artifacts of acoustical filtering. So for the Oktava LDC mics I work on, I really prefer the open, tight transient sound of a single layer headbasket - something that is readily heard in the accuracy of "S", "F" and "Ch" sounds delivered with less time-smeared HF energy.
Click to expand...

Michael I have always agreed with your methodology in modifying the Octava brand. There are some grills that set up bad resonances that need correction. I feel that what you do is a way to get the most out of a good sounding capsule in a poorly made housing.

The Apex 460 is a prime example of a poor grill IMO. The same with the MXL2001 and similar.

The grill of the U47 is unique and a large contributor to the vintage sound. Trying to keep true to that ideal is the only goal I have for this project.
 
Phil, did you go with a 1 layer on the 460? I've never dealt with the 2001, but it's shape is sort of 67/87ish. Is the mesh type the problem?
Craig
 
craigmorris74 said:
Phil, did you go with a 1 layer on the 460? I've never dealt with the 2001, but it's shape is sort of 67/87ish. Is the mesh type the problem?
Craig
Click to expand...

Craig, sorry I took so long in replying. Things are nuts around here.

I did go with single mesh on the Apex and like it very much.

The mesh on the 2001 is no so much a problem for me, but I have read from others who find the angles and radius to be horrible. I spent some time working mine to be flat like the U87/U67 and think I can hear an improvement, though I may just be wishing to hear something. (Probably the case).

In my experience the grill on the M-Audio Nova is superior for that design of mic. I have done 3-4 Royer mods with that body and they do indeed sound better. I have 2 Nady TCM1100's that have a similar grill. All of them sound better than the 2001 body.
 
how does the v67 grill go? while on the conversation of grilles
 
The V67 I own has a pretty flimsy grill. Don't particularly like the design of it either, but plenty of people like the mic.
 
It seems that with round grills it either helps certain frequencies or it gets spitty if it's a bad combination or design. If the v67 were bad, we'd know it, but since the mic has a good popularity it's probably a good design. Gus once observed that in changing MXL capsules between different mics, the sound followed the grill.

Angled grills make reflected waves arrive in a staggered way so as to not have a buildup or standing waves.
 
Cool stuff! I've been searching the net for Rode NTK mods - I have two and it would be great if I could improve the sound.
 
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