The Result of an Epiphany

[maxabillion]

Hey!
I have been on and off here for a while, but it has been a while since my last post. Anyway, I had a very broad question, and I'm looking for any and all help that you may offer.

I realized my music is lacking because I don't have the capabilities to play the instruments I want to (horns, drums[no set], strings, etc) and I came to the epiphany that that is all probably attainable through MIDI - something I have been too thickheaded to learn about. Which brings me to my question...

How the hell does MIDI work, and is that the way that I can get more complex mixes/songs full of orchestration?

I know the basics (it works with note on/off triggers, etc) but I don't get how to get the sounds I want onto my mix. Is it done through the preprogrammed sounds on the keyboard, or do I need plugins? Can I play in realtime and record that, or is it all done by gridding and mapping? Is it worth it to buy an outrageous synth with hundreds or thousands of sounds, or can I by a cheap one and load it with the sounds?

As you can see, I am lost beyond all help, so if you could send me some info, or point me in the right direction of a good book or website on the matter I would be greatly appreciative. (P.S. I have already read Tweakheadz - and will again - but I am still regrettably a NOOB of the first degree!)

Thanks Guys!

[Here is my setup now: Protools 9, M-Audio Fast track Ultra, Behringer Truth B3031A monitors, A couple of Large and small diaphragm condenser mics, a couple of dynamic (SM58's), and various musical instruments/equipment i.e. gibson sg, good amp, schecter fretless bass, console piano, taylor acoustic, and the voice of an angel haha. I have about 1000 dollars that I could invest, although being that that is literally every penny I have to my name, I'd like to see if I can get going with around half that. Style of music is typically guitar/vocal based jazz-rock]

 

[mjbphotos]

If you are not planning on live performing (and even if you are), you can get all the sounds with a simple MIDI controller keyboard and software - and there's plenty of free software out there to start you out. You don't need to load the keyboard with sounds, unless you want to record audio out from the keyboard - instead you record the MIDI control signals, then using the VSTi plugin, can tailor the sound(s) that you want.
For drums, you don't even need a keyboard, just create MIDI tracks note at a time, or by dragging loops/patterns into your DAW (EZ Drummer, Superior Drummer).

 

[maxabillion]

Alright cool man.

So what is a VSTi? And can you suggest any software that happens to have quality sounds (preferably free, but I am willing to pay if it is worth it). Also, I have done some research on EZ Drummer before, but what I mostly find is that people say that it is difficult to use if not using the preloaded beats available. WOuld you say that is accurate, or is it easy to customize the beats you want?

Thanks again for your help.

 

[jonny deep]

A VSTi is a virtual instrument, that is played via midi instructions. EZ Drummer is a VSTi. You should be able to download a trial version and give it a go. I use Addictive Drums, which is very good also. I've read a lot of good things about Steven Slate Drums. There are loads out there, give them a go to see how you like them. YouTube is full of tutorial videos on how to use these things.

 

[miroslav]

I realized my music is lacking because I don't have the capabilities to play the instruments I want to (horns, drums[no set], strings, etc) and I came to the epiphany that that is all probably attainable through MIDI ...

Yes...and no.

I've been down the MIDI path many years ago...thought it was da shit, but after while I realized it was just a shadow of the real thing, and everything sound like...synths.

Don't get me wrong, for some music styles, synth sounds are the way to go and will work well...but if you want the sound of real instruments, MIDI will not give it to you. In small quantities...as ear candy...you can sneak samples/synths and make them work, but not for full tracks.

 

[gecko zzed]

I came to the epiphany that that is all probably attainable through MIDI

Yep . . . it is all attainable through midi. How good it sounds depends on the quality of the sounds you are using, and the capacity you have to understand firstly how an instrument should sound, then secondly how to replicate that.

is that the way that I can get more complex mixes/songs full of orchestration?

Yes . . . complex mixes and full orchestration are possible, but read the caveat above.

Is it done through the preprogrammed sounds on the keyboard, or do I need plugins?

You can use both. You can use midi to drive a synth, thus making use of its sounds, or you can use midi to drive a plugin, i.e. a VSTi (a virtual instrument)

Can I play in realtime and record that, or is it all done by gridding and mapping?

You can do both. You can record in real time, using a keyboard, or you can use, say, a piano roll editor and draw the notes in. You can also use the piano roll to edit stuff you have recorded in real time.

Is it worth it to buy an outrageous synth with hundreds or thousands of sounds, or can I by a cheap one and load it with the sounds?

You can do either. But how are you going to load a cheap one with sounds, where do the sounds come from, and does the cheap one have the capability of accepting and storing external sounds? You can also consider getting a sound module. This is just a unit that stores many sounds. It doesn't have a keyboard, but can be driven by one, or be driven my midi in your computer.

 

[mjbphotos]

I only have experience with MIDI drums with EZD, but I would think creating new patterns is the same no matter what software you are using. I find EZD loops I like, and modify them (if needed), which I find no more difficult that if I had to learn to play them for real on an actual drum set.

Here's one place I found for free VSTi's: VSTPLANET - VST Plugins Free - Virtual instruments and effects

 

[krooner]

Hope, maxabillion, you don't mind me using your thread to ask what probably might be a really simple question;

Will the sound quality of a VSTi depend on that of ones' own synth?

Would anyone like to comment?

Thanks in advance.
Kj

 

[gecko zzed]

Will the sound quality of a VSTi depend on that of ones' own synth.

The quality of a VSTi is independent of the quality of your synth.

A VSTI is a piece of software that resides within your computer. It generates its own sound , and its quality is determined by how well it is written (and by the quality of any samples it may make use of).

 

[krooner]

The quality of a VSTi is independent of the quality of your synth.

A VSTI is a piece of software that resides within your computer. It generates its own sound , and its quality is determined by how well it is written (and by the quality of any samples it may make use of).

Thanks, Gz,
That's really good to know.

Cheers.
Kj

 

[grimtraveller]

This is part of an answer that I gave someone last year that was asking about VSTis and MIDI and all that. You may find it useful, you may not.

Virtual instruments are one of the elements that, in my opinion, have revolutionized home recording. It's enabled dreamers like me that dreamed for 25 years of recording songs with instruments like sitars, saxophones and steel pans and many others to do so. But the existence alone of the VSTis doesn't guarantee glory. Because the real heavy weather is twofold ~ hunting down the VSTis and testing them out and then learning how to tweak them to realistic ends.
Personally, my quest began in 2004 and to some extent, still hasn't finished.
I've got friends that play steel pans and I was about to buy one a couple of weeks back. I'm glad I delayed while looking for a 14 note pan because I found this fantastic sampled steel pan for free ten days ago. It is fantastic, it is not some synthesized fake, but a real played pan. The reason I mention this is twofold ~ firstly, there are some good free ones out there in cyberspace. You have to look and find and be disappointed. The same applies to the ones you buy. People will recommend but all our tastes are so different. I have an almost monomania about instruments sounding authentic. Sampling was great for that because at least you were getting the genuine instrument. But in order to get to the point where you are pretty much settled in what you have, you have to go through alot of packages and searches. It takes alot of time. This is part of an answer that I gave to this question some time ago. It still applies;

I have the software sampler Sampletank 2. It comes with more instrument sounds than even Quincy Jones and Queen could use in a lifetime. These sounds are actual samples of actual instruments, rather than synthesized versions of instrument sounds that didn't really sound accurate. When you play the sounds on Sampletank you're getting those sampled sounds. Now, to me, they are VSTis, which I understand to be virtual instruments. I have other VSTis such as Celtic Instruments, Danny Thompson double bass and Zero G harmonica which I have loaded into Sampletank. They contain single notes so you can play whatever melodies or notes you want to play. They also contain riffs and melodies that I suppose you can work into whatever song you're recording, if you are that way inclined (I tend not to be). On the other hand I also have Cubase 5 loaded into my recording computer (I used to have Cubase SE) but because I use a standalone DAW, I use Cubase to house my other VSTis. So loaded into Cubase is First call horns, MTRON (a mellotron), Lounge Lizard (electric piano), B4 (Hammond organ), Miroslav Philharmonik (orchestral instruments) and Swar systems (Indian instruments). You could add to that Sonik synth and Garritan personal orchestra. These give me a range of colours to add to my recordings. They vary in quality, but again, to me they are VSTis (virtual instruments), though they are referred to as samples and sometimes sample sound libraries.

3. Basically, if you see the terms 'vsti', 'samples', 'sample sound library', 'virtual instrument', 'sample based' ~ investigate ! I made the mistake of buying this, which I thought would be a great addition. They said it had samples of Indian instruments etc but when I got it, it wasn't quite what I thought. It was mainly loops and melodies and though I was able to load the instruments I wanted into Sampletank 2, the range was only about 15 notes. Usable, but harder work, than say, Swar systems which, for most of the melody instruments gives at least 3 octaves.
But some DAWs come with VSTis. Cubase 5 came with hundreds of sounds from Halion. But I personally thought they were all fairly lame except for some of the synthesizer and sound effects sounds. So I don't use them. It's hard to say "this sound is better than that sound" because it's really so much down to personal taste. I know what I like. For instance, I used to use the violin and viola sounds in Sampletank 2 until I got Celtic Instruments and Miroslav philharmonik. They're so much better that I'd never use the Sampletank ones on their own again. There's so much variation.
Bear in mind that there are also loads of free samples and VSTis on the net and there are lots of people on this forum with invaluable information on them and where to get them and how to load them.

4. When you put your sample CD/VSTi into the computer, a menu should appear or something that asks you if you take on board all their terms and conditions. As long as you say yes or "I agree" then it should take you to the installer. Basically, most of the ones I have moreorless load them for you. The ones that go into Sampletank 2 are a little more complicated but believe me, I'm technically challenged to the max and I've managed to figure it out.........eventually ! Sometimes, it's taken me months.
Anyway, once loaded, they should show up in [your DAW]. If you press F11 on your computer keyboard, the list of instruments that have been loaded should show up. As long as your MIDI/controller keyboard is properly connected, just click on the instrument you want to play and the menu of those instruments should appear. As an example, say I click F11 and a whole list of programmes (MTRON, Lounge Lizard, Miroslav etc) comes up and I want to play some mellotron. I click on MTRON. Then all the different mellotron sounds come up. Say I want the half speed Hammond mellotron, then I click on that and Bingo ! Whatever you're monitoring through (headphones, speakers, whatever), you should now hear loud and clear whatever you play.

And importantly, read the manuals. They make bits of sense that help you to join the dots !

I hope that's a useful start.

I would try to combine real instruments with virtual ones if you can. It's the combination, I find, that prevents the virtual ones standing too much scrutiny !
Hope this all helps.

That was a bit long, true. But faint heart never won fair lady !

 

[krooner]

Hi Gt,
May I just say thanks for such a generous and helpful post.
Loads of gret info!

Cheers.
Kj

 

[maxabillion]

Hey everyone!
Thanks so much for all the helpful answers and more. I feel like I may be ready to actually maybe sorta try this haha. I'm sure i'll be back with many more noob questions (and hopefully eventually, more well-thought-out ones) so thanks for answering these!