The New Tone Thread

The constant was the DS1 and the small clone (small clone is the flanger isn't it?) Yeah. I think it was a mesa unit. Can't remember the cabs. There is actually a website about Kurt's equipment. Aside from odds and sods he was using occasionally he was very consistent with her gear from Nevermind (when he got money) until his death.

I find the Jackhammer does a better impression of the tone with my current set up.

He was actually quite picky with his guitars. Often used a jaguar and some cheap guitars but they pretty much all had a Duncan stuck in the bridge.
 
Yup, for as nonchalant and apathetic as he pretended to be, he was actually very picky about his equipment.

He used Marshall cabs with the logos removed.

The Small Clone is a chorus, if I remember correctly.
 
I saw them in 91/92 at The Vatican in Houston. I'm pretty sure he was playing a Jag, he had rack gear, and he definitely had Marshall cabs. I didn't see his pedals.
 
Yeah, he was very contradictory. He was supposedly a very good guitarist too but did everything he could to sound like he wasn't. Saying that, someone crap playing in that sort of style would be really awful.

Were they good when you saw them?
 
Just checked. Rack mounted tubed mesa into whatever power amp could take it.
Marshall cabs with the labels taped over.
 
Yeah, he was very contradictory. He was supposedly a very good guitarist too but did everything he could to sound like he wasn't. Saying that, someone crap playing in that sort of style would be really awful.

Were they good when you saw them?

They were good. I remember thinking they were better than I thought they'd be. I expected bad and trashy pseudo-punk. "Nevermind" was still pretty new and they weren't yet what they'd become. They were just a pretty cool band on the rise. They weren't anything special at that point. That venue, "The Vatican" held maybe 1000 people tops. Everyone at that show had seen tons of punk bands and none of us cared for glam metal anyway, so what they were actually about to do didn't register with us. No one had any idea they'd explode into one of the most influential and iconic bands ever. It was just a show and I only went because a buddy of mine was all retarded about the "Nevermind" album. Me being the punk rock snob that I was I thought they were just a re-packaged joke. I still do mostly, but I accept their place in history and I appreciate what they accomplished. The difference was they came along at a time when people were finally getting fed up with pointy guitar garbage and they exploded. I didn't think much of it at the time, but in hindsight it was indeed a cool thing to witness.
 
Alternatively though they were also a catalyst to end the pointy guitar wankery. There were a lot of bands that were anti then but Nirvana were the one to break through and basically remove hairspray and pointy guitars from the mainstream.

I can't imagine Rancid would have been mainstream without Nirvana. Might be different in the UK though. Hairspray and wankery wasn't quite a big a deal over here.
 
Alternatively though they were also a catalyst to end the pointy guitar wankery. There were a lot of bands that were anti then but Nirvana were the one to break through and basically remove hairspray and pointy guitars from the mainstream.
It wasn't just nirvana though. Their role was big, and they were the easy face of "Grunge", but they weren't alone. It wouldn't have happened the way it did if they were the only band doing it. They had help, and more importantly, they had the right timing. Musically they were nothing. Nothing. By the end of the 80s, hair cheese music had already jumped the shark by a thousand miles. People had outgrown it. And honestly, bands like Soundgarden, Alice in Chains, and Pearl Jam aren't that far removed from the cheesy wank shit of 80s pointy guitar rock. There were still heavy guitar bands, they just didn't dress like women and mindlessly noodle-shred all over everything. Rap was also taking hold. The explosion of hip-hop and grunge happened almost simultaneously.

You also had a lot of political and sociological changes happening. The Gen Xers, my generation, the 80s kids that ushered in Grunge and threw out the spandex hair crap, the 80s, Reagan, the Berlin Wall, the yuck excess of Miami Vice, and cocaine binges. We were done with all that. We were the last generation to know the Cold War. It was a weird time for us, and we acted it out. We collectively went 180 on everything. No more Republicans, no more guitar solos! We were legal now. We could vote and drink and fuck and make babies and make our own music and make a difference. What difference did we make? We, I killed glam metal. You're welcome. :D

I can't imagine Rancid would have been mainstream without Nirvana. Might be different in the UK though. Hairspray and wankery wasn't quite a big a deal over here.
If we have Nirvana to thank for Rancid, then fuck you Nirvana.
 
Suppose it may have been a fair bit different in the UK, bands like Poison, Bon Jovi, Crue and all that lot didn't have quite such an impact. We had the Smiths, The Cure, Primal Scream, The The etc. Like you had Regan - we had fucking Thatcher.

When grunge came along it was like there was American music worth listening to again! Aside from Bad Religion and DKs 80s american punk was just pretty obscure over here. Even Bad Religion was hard to come by. There was this good record shop in Cardiff called Spillers where you could get a lot of good stuff though.

Suppose early Alice in Chains is a bit glammy. Soundgarden and Pearl Jam weren't doing anything glammy by the early to mid 90s though.
 
I quite like Nirvana but have to be honest that the songs structures etc were soooo traditional I could play the albums in bed an slide off to sleep. Rancid - they really were off Yakk butter weren't they.

I've been reading Babylon's Burning (just pre punk to Grunge) and listening to the accompanying box set.
Very interesting stuff - seems the Clash were quite contradictory, barely competent & conflicted (& couldn't keep a drummer) whilst with Bernie Rhodes. Still love all the LPs before Sandi though. OH, & the Pistols were considered sell outs because they learnt to play what they did quite well.

There's a new guitar in Oz, (well supposedly new) that's called the Grungemaster - I knock off of the Jazzmaster - the shape, fake P90s, same switch set up for $240. That's a bit too close to the price of a J Masic's Squire for me.

I listened to a P90 vs Humbucker comparison online ( both LPs P90 a 54 reissue & humbuckers in a 57 reissue) the P90s sounded much better defined but the hummers REALLY pushed out a lot more sound. I think I like P90s now.

In terms of tone I've learnt a new thing about my little 5 watt Kustom - crank the amp & turn down the guitar! Sounds really clean but gets a bit bassy when turned up a bit then bets very trebbly when the guitar is cranked too. Probably more about the guitar than the amp.
Also the Boss OD with level fully cranked, tone with a little top rolled off & with just a tiny bit of gain (like less that 1) comes out really nicely.
 
Suppose it may have been a fair bit different in the UK, bands like Poison, Bon Jovi, Crue and all that lot didn't have quite such an impact. We had the Smiths, The Cure, Primal Scream, The The etc. Like you had Regan - we had fucking Thatcher.
Those bands made a big impact over here. The Smiths and The Cure are still gigantic. I saw The Cure at a festival a few months ago. They, BY FAR, drew the biggest crowd at a weekend including Slayer, Weezer, Primus, and a bunch of other big names. The UK did a good job of exporting it's pop/alternative stuff to the US. You're lucky Poison didn't poison you like they did us.

When grunge came along it was like there was American music worth listening to again! Aside from Bad Religion and DKs 80s american punk was just pretty obscure over here. Even Bad Religion was hard to come by. There was this good record shop in Cardiff called Spillers where you could get a lot of good stuff though.

Suppose early Alice in Chains is a bit glammy. Soundgarden and Pearl Jam weren't doing anything glammy by the early to mid 90s though.
Soundgarden and Pearl Jam weren't glammy, but they are just guitar rock. They weren't trying to destroy any previous musical structures. They just played their localized version of rock and roll. They weren't giving anyone the finger. Drop some guitar solos into their songs, have Eddie Vedder sing an octave higher, and trade his flannel for spandex, and Pearl Jam is Cinderella.

The 80s in america is mostly known for cheesy spandex metal and pop shit like Madonna, but go a little off the grid from that and there were huge giant scenes of good music happening that no one outside of "college radio" cared about. I don't know how familiar you are with Sonic Youth and The Pixies, but listen to them and then listen to Nirvana. Without actually knowing the guy's history, I suspect Kurt Cobain spent a lot of time listening to them. And Husker Du. The Stooges. The Melvins. You can hear all of those bands in Nirvana. They were just another band coming from what was left of the american punk/alternative music underground....that wasn't ever really that far underground. Nirvana just happened to write the perfect anger-pop tune that anyone could grab hold of at a time when people were ready for it. Two years earlier and "Teen Spirit" might not have ever seen the light of day. I actually don't even remember that song from the show I saw. It certainly wasn't the big closer or anything.

Rancid - they really were off Yakk butter weren't they.
Rancid has some okay songs. I always viewed them as postcard punks for frat boy jocks. I've never been too enamored with US bands that tried to look and sound like they were from London 1976. It's just very poser-ish to me. Lars Frederiksen is a fucking tool.

I've been reading Babylon's Burning (just pre punk to Grunge) and listening to the accompanying box set.
Very interesting stuff - seems the Clash were quite contradictory, barely competent & conflicted (& couldn't keep a drummer) whilst with Bernie Rhodes. Still love all the LPs before Sandi though. OH, & the Pistols were considered sell outs because they learnt to play what they did quite well.
I think it's pretty sad that The Sex Pistols are still considered the poster boys for UK punk, while The Clash were always leaps and bounds better in every possible way. It's not even close. Seriously. Is there anyone reputable on this planet familiar with both bands that doesn't think The Clash is/were/are just better?

I listened to a P90 vs Humbucker comparison online ( both LPs P90 a 54 reissue & humbuckers in a 57 reissue) the P90s sounded much better defined but the hummers REALLY pushed out a lot more sound. I think I like P90s now.
Haha, I think P-90s are kick ass. They are like the perfect single-coil IMO. I think that for your kind of sound, they'd be right up your alley. Humbuckers can vary a lot though. A hot humbucker can almost double the output of a P-90. A mild humbucker can sound pretty similar to a P-90. I've probably mentioned about a trillion times that I've really come to realize that I generally don't like hot humbuckers. They're a thick mucky mess to me. They have their place for sure, but I prefer to retain some clarity through my caveman style of playing. My buddy uses Gibson 500Ts in his LPs, and holy shit they are scorching hot. Leads scream out of those things for sure, but rhythm playing is kind of a mess and they won't clean up at all with the guitar vol.

In terms of tone I've learnt a new thing about my little 5 watt Kustom - crank the amp & turn down the guitar! Sounds really clean but gets a bit bassy when turned up a bit then bets very trebbly when the guitar is cranked too. Probably more about the guitar than the amp.
Also the Boss OD with level fully cranked, tone with a little top rolled off & with just a tiny bit of gain (like less that 1) comes out really nicely.
Cool man, let's hear it!
 
I do like sonic youth and the pixies. Got into them after listening to Nirvana though, it's pretty obvious that they were an influence.

Sonic youth were probably a bit too weird to ever get into the mainstream though.

There were a lot of good bands in London in the 80s. My sister lived in London from 83 till about 1990. I've still got shit loads of old LPs that she gave me. Have you ever heard The The?

The Clash are just a lot better than the Pistols. I do like the pistols, Clash are just a much better band with way more and varied material. The first 5 clash albums are all good.
 
I do like sonic youth and the pixies. Got into them after listening to Nirvana though, it's pretty obvious that they were an influence.

Sonic youth were probably a bit too weird to ever get into the mainstream though.

There were a lot of good bands in London in the 80s. My sister lived in London from 83 till about 1990. I've still got shit loads of old LPs that she gave me. Have you ever heard The The?
I have heard The The. Not lately though. It's been a very long time. I never really gave them much thought.

The Clash are just a lot better than the Pistols. I do like the pistols, Clash are just a much better band with way more and varied material. The first 5 clash albums are all good.
Yeah, for real. "Never Mind the Bollocks" is a great album for sure. An all-time classic, great from beginning to end. Great songs, great production. But it's just a studio album. They were never even close to being that good live. Live bootlegs of The Pistols are horrendous. They really did suck. They're very good now as a revival act, but back then they truly were bad.

The Clash had just as good, or better songs, just as good or better albums, and they were a great live band. The first two Clash albums are fucking awesome. London Calling is a masterpiece. Sandanista got really weird, but it was a band just doing whatever it wanted to do because that's what they did. And even Combat Rock had some good stuff on it. Straight to Hell is a beautiful song. They are way better than The Pistols at everything that matters.
 
Soundgarden and Pearl Jam weren't glammy, but they are just guitar rock.
The guitar rock thing has always been, & always will be my attraction to music, whether it be the hair metal thing, grunge, or whatever...To me, if it didn't have at least decent guitars in it, it didn't matter...I just happened to get caught up in the hair metal thing when I was a teenager (proud Generation X-er here too dude...), because I was into guitar....I do admit & agree that a lot of the shit that came out at that time was....pure shit....lol...But, there are also some bands/players that had a big influence on me too....

Drop some guitar solos into their songs, have Eddie Vedder sing an octave higher, and trade his flannel for spandex, and Pearl Jam is Cinderella.
Never thought of it that way, but it's true...

And the band that's probably my favorite out of the grunge bands (that wasn't at all at that time...I didn't get into 'em until a couple/few years ago actually) is Alice In Chains...But, IMO, they would have just been another metal/glam/hair metal band, had Layne Staley not sunk into herion addiction, which changed their music drastically (actually killed their music tbh...)...
 
Jerry Cantrell can fucking play

Fixed it for ya dude....While I don't get into all the stuff he's done, there's still a lot of stuff he does which I really like a lot...Especially the more bluesy-based stuff...The song "Voices" off their latest album "The Devil Put Dinosaurs Here" is a great song IMO, & "You Decision" off "Black Gives Way To Blue" is another great song that his playing really suits the song...Not overplayed, not shred, just bluesy licks that fit the song...Oh yeah, Cantrell is one of my favorite guitarists if you didn't know...:).
 
Alice in Chains and Soundgarden were IMO probably the best examples of real crossover bands from one era to the next. Nirvana went in full fury trashing the past. STP and Pearl Jam were relatively mild. AIC and Soundgarden were pretty heavy. They had big huge guitars and wailing vocals and dark imagery and all that shit. Their structures and writing were far more complex than shit like Cherry Pie or anything Winger did, but they retained elements of heavy guitar music.

And I think it could be argued that Guns n Roses may have had a role in starting to blow apart the old spandex guard. They were later from that era, but AFD was raunchy rock and roll. There was no metal riffing or EVH solos on that thing. That was a great rock and roll album that shocked the masses with it's basic authenticity in an era of superfluous musical pointless excess. And more importantly, they had good songs. There was a big divide between GnR and Dokken. One took over and lasted into the grunge movement, the other faded away forever. Grunge didn't kill Guns n Roses, Axl killed Guns n Roses.
 
Yeah dude, AIC is still one of my favorite bands...I love Cantrell's tones on all their albums...Sure, there are some that aren't that great here/there (to me anyway), but overall, his tones are stellar....

I also meant to mention the GnR thing too, Appetite was a big part of the death of hair metal....Killer album, no question about it....The thing I love about Appetite is the way Slash & Izzy's guitars interplay off/with one another....

Gotta run...off to work....

The e-drumbs will be here tomorrow...:).
 
Soundgarden's Superunknown is a great album, great riffing, original song ideas and great tones without ever really becoming cheesy. I always think of Superunknown as what Led Zep would have sounded like had they arrived 30 years later.

Pearl Jam are just a good rock n roll band - nothing wrong with that. Seen them live loads of times, they're good too! Even seen them in France twice.

The first riff of Cantrell's Degradation Trip is pure grunge - slow, heavy, dark, moody and not a bit cheesy. Even my mrs quite likes the way the music an lyrics fit together on that one and she is a recovering catholic who doesn't like heavy dark rock.
 
ya'll will all be surprisedbut although i'm aware of all of these bands ...... I've never really inmvestigated them.
Lots of albums suggested here for me to explore!

:)
 
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