The new myth about digital . . .

  • Thread starter Thread starter chessrock
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chessrock said:


. . and no gear in the world is substitute for proper techniques and knowlege.
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for some strange, unrelated reason...that was kinda what I was trying to say in my post, just previously. There are many home recordists, IMO, that are milking their equipment, by using "proper techniques and knowledge". I believe sonusman likes the tupe mp, I personally think it is a piece of crap, but listen to sonus's recordings, and they sound great most of the time.

You gotta be a caveman, if you don't see the boom of new recording equipment (good for people like us, btw...if you're careful) geared DIRECTLY to us "home reccors" It is a new hobby like coin collecting, that has sprung up due to the technology that keeps creating new equipment faster than most can keep up with. Just keeping up with the equipment is a hobby in itself....to many people.

The part I am having a tough time with, is that I grew up with professional recording being = to spending $$$$$$$$$$ to get the equipment that can JUST cut it, as a minimum. That isn't so, I suppose anymore. Basically, I would say it started with the ADAT revolution a decade ago. Then it all went crazy from there. A studio with a $6000 rack of ADATs (or now just a $2000 24 track unit) and a $2500 board, $1500 worth of mics and another couple grand in peripherals, starts to approach a very pro setup now a days.. I have two cars, a sailboat, and a house...each costing WAY more than the cost of a home studio....so I guess buying into a professional studio is the new era.....if you know what I mean ....:rolleyes:

I think it's cool, and the fact that we can even *argue* the fact about digital vs analog vs warm vs harsh vs faux vs real-deal vs which mic vs which beer is simply the coolest thing going on the planet for me now...!!:D
 
chessrock said:
And before I get off my soap box, I have one more thing to say:

If you are one of the people who do not like the ART Tube MP, then chances are you are either:

a).........
b)..... etc, etc
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I'll still disagee with that...but, I understand people saying the POD is God, or the V67 mic rocks. I actually put all those products in a similar catagory..I just found your choices do not matter in my situation...it still sucked for me....it was noisy and other cheaper pieces of gear seemed to actually work better for me...like stock preamps, and less costly DI boxes....but, apparently people are using it to good advantage.

(I just get the defective units, I guess!! ha!:p ) (my clip light was a joke too!!...on a serious note)

now remember, I said earlier that this new era of inexpensive equipment availabilty was too cool....IF YOU WHERE CAREFULL with your choices...but then there is lo-fi ....oh my!!:confused: :eek:
 
Yup,I stand by my opinion that the MP sucks and no I did not use it wrong.It might work as a DI but as a mic pre it sucks.There are much better ways to spend $100 than on a single channel of mediocre pre.I allow that the MP is better than most on board pres but not by a large margin.There is better value to be had for the money.IMO even my cheap Behringer minimixer has more usable pres than the MP and that"s not much of a compliment.As an effect the MP might have its uses but as a mic pre it isn't much of a value.A hundred bucks for a single channel of nothing special is no bargain.
 
personally, im all up for digital. i love the sound of analog, but digital is very "there" kinda thing. it's very accurate and depending on resolution, clear.

bruce is right, if you're blaming digital for bad sounding recording, you're engineering of it is probably wrong, unless you are looking to recreate that tape saturation sound.


my studio is valued over 30 grand. bad example mate:-0 but i knw what you mean, ive heard some cracking stuff with people using very cheap gear. i think that for most people, if you're using cheap gear, you find a way of utilising it and making it sound good.
 
mixmkr said:
I think it's cool, and the fact that we can even *argue* the fact about digital vs analog vs warm vs harsh vs faux vs real-deal vs which mic vs which beer is simply the coolest thing going on the planet for me now...!!:D
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I think that pretty much says it all! That would be a great way to end this thread.
 
LongWaveStudio said:
my studio is valued over 30 grand. bad example mate:-0 but i knw what you mean, ive heard some cracking stuff with people using very cheap gear. i think that for most people, if you're using cheap gear, you find a way of utilising it and making it sound good.
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yeah....the 30 grand figure is probably low, because when you DO start to add things up, it goes quick.. shoot...musical instruments ALONE can add up to that without trying to hard, really..... I know I'm easily above that figure myself.

But then....here's another question...maybe for another thread...

How much have you spent, and how much do you think your equipment is worth now?? In otherwords, if you sold everything(or lost it due to disaster), would you get [much] more or less than what you originally spent, given the same amount invested to date...?
for instance...like...what is your large format home used, analog console worth now and the analog tape machines for instance.....ugh!!!!

as an example....here is an old picture of my studio about 25 years ago....sorry about the bad quality. But notice the rack where there where about 30 high quality(at the time) Fairchild mic preamps...and some old tube compressors, etc. The console had Langevin EQ's and nice faders too. The old Teac 4 track was one of my main machines at the time...later upgraded to a old MCI 1" 8 track. I used McIntosh and Phase Linear pwr amps, and custom speakers with JBL components. However, I would NOT buy all that stuff for a couple thousand $ now...much more than my initial investment...
 
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oops...here's the pic...
 

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The missing element

There does seem to be one huge missing element that probably has as much an influence on the end result as anything else and that is musicianship. Back in the old days of recording, the engineer was supposed to capture what the musician did. I think the iedea was to acurately recreate the sound made by the musician. Musicians sought high and low for that perfect instrument that would give them the sound they wanted. Vocalists were valued for the tone of thier voice and the way it sounded when recorded. These were important factors. Somehow, though I am not at all suggesting that this is not a priority for the people posting here or that there is any lack of musicianship among the palyers here, but this to me is an important factr that is being overlooked. Also, digital recording is new, relatively speaking and there are some differences and things to get used to. Years ago, home recording was either on a Tascam open reel 4 o 8 track or a portastudio type device. The home recordings today are infinetly better. So much so that they are now being compared to professional recordings which, ten years ago, was unthinkable. The mere existence of this thread tells me that the quality of home recordin has improved in leaps and bounds and there is still better to come. I know that in my own home studio, with a little more experience, some additional devices to halep things along, I will be able to track with the best of them. Mixing and mastering may be another story, but basic tracks, particularly synth tracks and direct insturments, are going to be top quality even in my home studio. For instance, suppose I am recording a Rhodes keyboard sound. If I have a good sound and a clean signal path, I am sure my recording will sound great and, it should give any professional studio the raw material for shaping a great and highly professional sound. And this, I percieve is mostly becuase of the clean digital signal path, wide dynamic range and low noise. It was, after all, the inability to get a full and noiseless sound that set home recoding so far apart from pro recordings. So, I for one, am not surprised at all that people here can get some pretty amazing result, particularly when I read the threads and realize the amount of collective knowledge that is floating around this site.
 
I hear ya Jack and I don't disagree... I just wanted to point out that my comments on novice quality was not intended as a put-down or directed to anyone specifically, it was more a generalization to illustrate a point.

Bruce
 
Mr J hammer:
just about every word in every sentence was right on the money. After reading it, you just smack yourself on the forehead, (or at least I wanted to) and go..."ya know...that's entirely correct, I know it too...but why didn't I express myself that well also?"
well said...especially about the part of home recording just not being able to get a noise free product in the past....that was a main challenge, while the big boys concentrated on musical performance and vibe.

and Bruce...we all know you are pointing fingers at someone....just because you Canadians can't play hockey, you have to take it out on something/someone....:p
 
Look--recording is an art form. Just like playing an instrument. The fact is a gifted musician can play an entry level instrument and make it sing. There are players who prefer solid-state who are great and get great sounds out of them. There are others who get their sound out of tube gear but if they are really great players, they will manage to make whatever they use sound great and will be able to overcome it's limitations. On the other hand, if a player is a mediocore player, he will always sound that way regardless of the finest axe you give him because his abilities are only able to achieve a certain level of performance. The same is true of recording. It's not just a matter of knowing the electronics and how to set up mics and how everthing works; it's also a matter of having "big ears" and to some extent you either have them or you don't. I tune pianos at a local music store that has a first rate studio set-up and the guy that runs it has a good knowledge of electronics and recording "rules" but his work absolutely SUCKS. He has no ability to impart musicality to his recordings and even though people come in, pay their money, are impressed by his techno-speak and the fine equipment and leave just so sure they have produced something fine; I can tell you they are among some of the worst mixes I have ever heard. I have old Teac 3340 tapes I did in the 60's with a lot of pinging on them that are quite musical and head and shoulders above his despite the disparity in equipment. While I wouldn't want to go back to those antique equipment days, I still think that it's the artistic vision and abilities of the recordist that are the greatest tool ( or liabilty) in the studio and most people should be working more on that instead of agonizing over which piece of gear would be that final piece of the puzzle.
 
There are some great ideas in this thread, and I totally agree with the need for musicianship. Some of the technicians/engineers I've met have some of the worst ears. They were taught a formula for getting a good mix and totally believe that this is the answer to everything. The quality of the homerecording gear has increased to the level where the musicians can now produce a demo which can be taken to the studio and enhanced or, in a lot of cases, sent directly to the mastering studio.

Another thing that has emerged is the ability to experiment. In the old days, studio time was expensive and a musician could not spend two or three hours experimenting to try and get a lot of different sounds. Gear was expensive and the studio was not going to turn the musician loose to play with it. Today, thanks to plug-ins and low cost gear, musicians are free to experiment with the type of equipment that was behind the doors of the studio racks. (Remember when studio racks had glass or screen doors that locked?)

This freedom is due to the digital audio capability that exploded a few years ago. Before that, the musician was confined to a very limited tape machine.

Just my two cents....:)
 
Ditto to everything you said Misfit. This should be a new "golden age" of recording and it will be interesting to see what music will come out of ending the money oriented studios' stranglehold on creativity. It should be similar to the explosion of creativity that animators saw when the Video Toaster and such became available. Even modest digital stuff now has the capabilities to compete with the best stuff of 20 years ago and lord knows there was plenty of great music turned out with that old gear. Look at Jimi; everything he did until the final unfinished work he was doing at the end was on 4-track and it's some of the most important music ever made.
 
Lt. Bob said:
This should be a new "golden age" of recording and it will be interesting to see what music will come out of ending the money oriented studios' stranglehold on creativity.
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Yea, and I hear the beatles recorded everything on 4 tr . . . :) :)

Well put, my friend!
 
digital coldness/warmth

A friend of mine who is a producer in New York and works regularly at Electic Lady studios etc. on many major releases says mixes in Pro Tools "sound like shit". Typically what he does is record to Pro Tools and as he put it, he goes from Pro Tools into an $800,000 board. He hasn't touched tape in 2 years, but he does always mix to an external console.
 
ZZZZZzzzzzzzz... this argument has no end...

...and no beginning! This topic will be argued for years to come, even in our granchildren's lives!

Lets move onto a more relevant question:

Is a DJ a Musician!!??:D
 
Re: digital coldness/warmth

STEVEZ said:
A friend of mine who is a producer in New York and works regularly at Electic Lady studios etc. on many major releases says mixes in Pro Tools "sound like shit". Typically what he does is record to Pro Tools and as he put it, he goes from Pro Tools into an $800,000 board. He hasn't touched tape in 2 years, but he does always mix to an external console.
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Yo' Stevez, who is your friend @ Electric Lady! I know almost every-1 there! Even had the opportunity to record there once!
 
Hey Misterqcue

My friend at Electric Lady is Stevo. Yeah, you probably do know him. One of the nicest guys I've known.

Stevez
 
Re: Hey Misterqcue

STEVEZ said:
My friend at Electric Lady is Stevo. Yeah, you probably do know him. One of the nicest guys I've known.

Stevez
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Ya mean, Steve Mandel!!??
 
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