The Master - Instrumental Revisited

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rayc

rayc

retroreprobate

I haven't done anything new in 6 months so thought I'd best post SOMETHING so that people know I do record and that I am talking through my hat when I make suggestions.
The track above (from FLAC) was recorded a couple of years ago as a collaboration with Joe Mizzi (JoeyM), Gerry Steele (Ido1957) and Greg Loyacano (Greg L) from HR.
THis version doesn't feature Joe's superb vocals, (you can find the original on soundclick - though I may post it tomorrow for comparison's sake), instead Gerry's lead guitar is the melodic feature. Gerry played so many good licks I had to feature them all just for my listening pleasure.
I recorded this in cakewalk Pro Audio 9.3 so resurrected it within that to remix and tweak.
Greg's drumming is fantastic and sits forward in the mix because it works well.
I did the annoying guitars and bass.
In several spots there are 2 lead guitars playing.
How is the blend?
How is the thing overall?
Here's the full vocal version, (from MP3) - oh, it was professionally mastered:
 
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That starting guitar is sure jangly. I listened to about half of the instrumental then went to the version with vocals, because I didn't want to judge the guitar lead parts without a reference - they are a bit too reverby in places (just my taste). At the start 20-26 seconds in there's some compression kicking in doing a funny thing to the overall volume, figure that might be soundcloud's doing?
When the vocals go into harmony parts the first time they overpower the instruments, not so much the second time. The lead vocal doesn't quite sit IN the mix enough
 
mjbphotos,
Thanks mate. I'm actually after comments re instrumental version and threw the vocal version in for a) reference and b)the thrill of it all.
the vocal version is recorded, mixed and mastered so there'll be no tweaking of it though I do appreciate the comments & will listen to it again to take note of the issue you raised.
Compression in the 1st 30 secs or so - nothing that's not across the rest but it goes from just a couple of instruments to a whole load of guitars so the compressor may have established a new battle front - I'll listen.
 
Ok, the compression was probably soundcloud - I've found it oding it to my stuff when the instruments or vocals kick in.
On the instrumental itself - the main lead guitar had a little too much reverb for me, the 2nd one that came in (on the left, I think) was very low to start, but I guess that's what you wanted. Only the jangly guitar really stood out to me.
 
mjbphotos said:
Ok, the compression was probably soundcloud - I've found it oding it to my stuff when the instruments or vocals kick in. On the instrumental itself - the main lead guitar had a little too much reverb for me, the 2nd one that came in (on the left, I think) was very low to start, but I guess that's what you wanted. Only the jangly guitar really stood out to me.
Click to expand...

I agree that the main lead guitar had a little too much reverb. Also, and this is just my taste I suppose, but I thought the overall track could have been compressed a bit more to pull things together tighter. Again, that's just a personal taste thing though.

rayc - Overall I thought things sounded very nice man! Great job!
 
Ray, I'm sorry, but the majority of that mix appears to be in the most horrible frequency range that you could've picked! There's a really nice song in there trying to get out!

Seriously, I didn't want to criticise your mix as you've been so complimentary towards most of mine - but the greater part of that mix was ridiculously 'orrible.

I'm not sure where the problem frequencies lie, but I think it's mostly around the 1k range.
 
Bubba Po,
When you say the entire mix is 'orrible do you mean that the nominated freq is dominating the mix or that everything seems to be in that range OR...something else?
I isolated that zone & it's , largely, a single guitar played through a wah pedal set at a "sweet" spot. I'll experiment with that and repost.
Did you find the same problem in the vocal version?
 
Just listened to the vocal version again... I stand by my last comments but I'm going to expand a little. I feel like there is just so much going on and at points I feel like the percussion is being drowned away.

I feel like the rhythm guitar, "embelish" guitar track, effects (airy strings and reverby guitar layer thing), and lead guitars are competing for space/attention that it actually makes focusing on anything somewhat complicated.

Vocals and bass seem alright in my opinion.
 
Hello Lurker,
All of the effects and synthy things are guitars.
If I read you correctly on the instrumental track I need to give the lead the focus, reduce the reverb a bit & try a "glue' compressor.
Thanks.
 
Good tune - I think I've heard this in my truck several dozen times :)

Just a few thoughts while listening...

Drums are mixed good but get lost at times when the guitars get loud. The reverb on the other stuff sounds wet compared to the drums. Is there any reverb on the drums?

Rhythms panning keeps them out of the way but I'm more of a 60% kind of mixer so they blend inward a bit. I'll get opposition on that though lol...

My first thought is compress the heck out of the lead to even it out but it may require automation if it's too wonky volume wise. Jan did manage to keep it in check - wish I knew his tricks... For example - the intro leads are good but when the lead crunchy part comes in it's rather jolting. The effect is good but I think it's too loud. It's not so apparent as the tune progresses.

The multiple leads - sound a little messy they don't play off one another as much as I'd like and I played them without considering the other. The mixing in and out is the right idea though.

I'd try and match the reverbs - maybe on the master to glue them together as they sound a bit separated to me. The distance difference is good but it needs something to pull them together.

I prefer the vocal version - can't beat that voice lol...
 
Thanks Gerry,
I was toying with the idea of sending your the basic backing & the files for the leads & letting you mix together the bits you like.
I can/will do that if you're interested.
I'll apply some automation and have a bash at each of your suggestions before reposting.
The final vocal version is pretty swish I think.
You, Greg & Joe did some stellar stuff to make a song from an idea.
Any sign of the 1Khz horror Bubba Po referred to?
 
Listened to it again this morning, Ray - it doesn't seem so bad, now.:D I really don't like any of the guitar tones, though. Everything else sounds nice! :D :thumbs up:
 
Bubba Po,
Mate, don't worry. I'm looking into the issue you raised and seeking confirmation from others re the approx 1Khz thing. If it's something I can address in the instro version I will.
None of the rhythm guitars are mic'd - they are either DI'd or through an ancient effects processor. Each chosen for their slight psych/shoegaze qualities. In the case of the main 1Khz culprit it's through a set wah into an ancient FX500 with a setting that replicated some of the MBV Loveless stuff. It may have an EQ peak I can tweak.
1st responses are important, like deciding whilst needing to run to the loo, hardwired & unfiltered.
 
rayc said:
Hello Lurker,
All of the effects and synthy things are guitars.
If I read you correctly on the instrumental track I need to give the lead the focus, reduce the reverb a bit & try a "glue' compressor.
Thanks.
Click to expand...

Exactly.

Basically just notch the guitars out more and make sure the 1k-2k range is not competing because it sounds like the guitars are competing in that range... Make sure the percussion is consistently present without it gradually disappearing in "busy" places (maybe just raise your master fader for the drum track a hair? - just toy with it, you'll get it).

Edit: I was talking about the version that had vocals.
 
rayc said:
Thanks Gerry,
I was toying with the idea of sending your the basic backing & the files for the leads & letting you mix together the bits you like.
I can/will do that if you're interested.
I'll apply some automation and have a bash at each of your suggestions before reposting.
The final vocal version is pretty swish I think.
You, Greg & Joe did some stellar stuff to make a song from an idea.
Any sign of the 1Khz horror Bubba Po referred to?
Click to expand...

Not getting the 1Khz build up as far as I can hear. Do you still have dropbox? If you drop the files there I'll pick them up and play around and see what I can do with the leads. I have to work over the holidays (boo) but maybe this weekend. I got ROKU and am consumed watching Breaking Bad lately after work/weekends (almost done 5th and final season). Merry Christmas to you and Kim!
 
Great excuse to hear this song again Ray. Joe's vocals are fantastic.

I'm not wild on the instrumental version as I think the lead sounds in too much of a different space from the rest of the mix. It's kind of lo-fi, verby and the tone doesn't sit with everything else. The licks themselves could work if they sat better I think - be interesting to hear an update if ido gets chance to work it out.

Happy new year mate :)
 
Yeah the main lead tone has way too much low mid and it does not fit the mix. Way too loud with the tone it has. @ 3:22 this other tone sounds better though a bit quiet. The contrast between the tones is not smooth nor working for the tune.

Sorry, I don't get around to comment much in the Clinic but when I hear a great tune I try to give my opinion. For whatever that is worth.

This is a really cool tune. The added solo is just too dominant. Not that you should look at a waveform to make judgements on a mix, but look at this one on your Soundcloud link. You can see how overbearing the solo track is. It is stronger than the drums. That should never happen. It does show how far off you are.

Once again, the tune is great and I like the playing and style. The tone of that guitar is killing it. And yes, that intro guitar is not pleasant. Twangy is an understatement. It is just yucky IMO.
 
A lot going on in this song. Sounds like the reverb is clouding everything up some. Good song though.
 
Rob Green, Jimmy69 & Bruthish,
Thanks for you comments.
I hope the remix addresses some of your concerns. I haven't notched the jangly guitars yet as I rather like them but will tame them a little if that supports the lead.
 
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