The Guitar Tone and Mix Thread

[Robus]

Epiphone ES 336 continued...

Still working out how to record this ES 335. It's the first semi-hollow I've ever owed or even played much. It feels and plays beautifully. However, I'm not yet capturing the sweetness I would like from it. I'm thinking about a pickup change in the long run--Duncan Antiquities are tempting me. However, I want to give the stock alnico pickups a fair run, and also rule out operator error. Let me know what you think.

Here's something. It the 335 double tracked. Left is the mighty Tubemeister 18, right the Boogie 5:25. Both are miked through a Mesa 1x12 cab and a Sennheiser e906 mic.

First the two guitars alone, then the mix. The guitar solo is the 335 through the Boogie, with the Strymon Timeline delay.

ES 335_TM left_MkV right_906.mp3 - Google Drive

 

[Robus]

Here's a better blend with just the guitars.

10_19_2017_335_TM left_MkV right_906_guitars 2.mp3 - Google Drive

 

[TripleM]

I liked both of those clips. I liked the first one better. A little more breakup in them.

On the second one, the slapback on the lead got in the way in one spot.

But all of it was excellent sounding.

 

[Robus]

Thanks 3M. It could be a perspective problem on my part with this guitar. With a solid-body Gibson or Fender, I know pretty well in advance what tone I'm seeking and how to get it. I'm still learning the ins-and-outs of recording with this ES 335.

I do think eventually a pickup change is going to happen. These Epiphone pickups don't sound at all bad, and really are pretty nice--just maybe not the sound I'm seeking. They are alnico 5 pickups with slightly more output. I might be craving the tone of vintage style, unpotted, low output alnico 2 humbuckers like Duncan Antiquities or the Seth Lovers I have in my SG. I'm thinking the slightly microphonic sound of unpotted pickups might contribute an airiness to the tone that I'm not hearing at present.

Or, it could be operator error... I'm going to give these pickups a few months in any case.

 

[Robus]

ES 335, Hughes and Kettner Tubemeister 18, and ART M-5 ribbon mic

The quest to master recording the Epiphone ES 335 goes on. I've been trying every combination of amps and mics I own, and worked my way around to this one. It's an ART ribbon mic.

Amp is the Tubemeister through a Mesa 1x12 cab. I double tracked the rhythm and added a solo through the same gear. I'm using the gain channel, master volume dimed and gain at half. The little 'Meister delivers.



I set the cab up at the top of a staircase aiming out to the largest open space in the house. The ribbon mic is out about four or five feet. The figure eight pattern picks up some of the ambiance from the room.



First the guitars soloed, then the mix.

ES 335_TM_ribbon_guitars then mix.mp3 - Google Drive

 

[TripleM]

Those guitars solo'd sounded OK, but didn't really do a whole lot for me. But in the mix they worked quite well.

 

[Robus]

Thanks 3M. I agree. The sound of this guitar reminds me a lot of a Les Paul, though it is more fun to play than an LP. By themselves most LPs sound meh to me, but in the right mix they work.

 

[andrushkiwt]

...but in the right mix they work.

They sounded very smooth in the mix. Very nice blend going on there.

 

[jimistone]

Bought a new guitar the other day. It's the Epiphone ES 335. I've wanted a Gibson forever but realized I'll die of old age before I can justify the price.

View attachment 100788

I really like it. Plays great and seems quality all around. The alnico pickups sound good. I could see putting in a pair Seth Lovers or Duncan Antiquities, but no hurry.

I've been working out how to record it. I tried out all the amp/mic combinations this weekend.
Here's something. I set up a pair of mics, an SM57 close and an M-Audio ribbon about five feet back from the amp. I didn't worry too much about phase but it seems alright. I tracked the two mics and panned them opposite. I was playing around with reverb settings on my Strymon Timeline.

First you hear the rhythm part, the 335 through my silverface Princeton reissue, volume down to 3-4. Next comes the solo, which is the 335 through my Velocette, volume at 12:00.

What I'm getting is a bold tone that sounds pretty good, but a little one-dimensional. I hear nuances in the guitar's tone out of the amp, but am not yet capturing them in the recording. I can hear some room echoes in the distant ribbon mic. Not necessarily bad, though I wish it were a better sounding room.

ES 335 with Velo and PRC double miked 57 and ribbon.mp3 - Google Drive

man, that 335 is sweet!

 

[Robus]

Thanks Jimi. I'm loving the guitar. Hardly playing anything else. I'm having a hard time thinking of a reason to own a Les Paul though.

This just turned up on my doorstep. A Vox AC15CH head. I bought the combo last year but had to return it because of a rattle in the cab. But it sure sounded good. Finally decided to buy the head.



Here's a quickie I recorded this afternoon with the Epiphone 335. I'm using the Mesa closed back 1x12 with Vintage 30s, miked with an SM57 at the edge of the dust cap. I'll try some open back cabs next. I'm mostly using the top boost channel in this clip. Master volume was set up pretty high, maybe 3:00. The channel volume is the gain, I think. That's backed down to maybe 11:00. I used a clean boost and the Strymon Timeline for the lead part. The rhythm guitars are the same thing minus the clean boost, gain dialed back.

9_22_2017 ES 335 and AC15 closed cab SM57.mp3 - Google Drive

 

[ibleedburgundy]

Sounds great. Nice tones.

Of these samples I liked the 335 with the velocette and 57/ribbon mic and the 335 with the vox/closed cab with the 57 the most.

There was something kind of boxy sounding about the hughes and kettner sound.

The Mrk V sound was ok, just not as good as the velocette and vox IMO. Sounded smaller, thinner.

 

[Robus]

Thanks Dave. I tried the Vox out this afternoon playing through the open back cab of my Fender DRRI. It sounded beautiful. Tones to come.

 

[Robus]

Same setup as above, but this time I ran the AC15 through the open back cab of my Fender Deluxe 65 reissue. It has one of the old brown Eminence speakers that they used in the early years of the series.

To my ears, this beats the closed back by a mile. What do you think?

9_22_2017 ES 335 and AC15 open cab SM57.mp3 - Google Drive

 

[Robus]

Peg solo, Epiphone ES335 and Vox AC15 head

Having a hard time finding reasons to play anything other than the 335. It makes you want to pick it up. Here it is through the AC15 head into the Mesa 1x12 closed cab, miked with an SM57. There's a Strymon Timeline delay into the front end.

Jay Graydon played the solo on the Steely Dan song. His swagger as he tosses off that off-beat ascending riff, followed by a descending pedal steel type riff--a total badass.

Peg_ES335_AC30_closed cab_57.mp3 - Google Drive

 

[CoolCat]

that 335 into the hughs kettner up the thread with the ART mic is really a cool sound, full with a lot of body, my favorite of the samples.
how much of that is the ribbon mic and room?
the 57 samples have the mids less bass end. sounds good too...

 

[Robus]

Thanks, I like that clip too. The ribbon mic is picking up a lot of the room. It was cranked. That Tubemeister has a ballsy midrange, which might help keep it from getting washed out in the room.

 

[wuzzo]

Now that I've bought a Fender Select Strat. I can get the tone I've been trying to get from my Gibson ES 335.

 

[Robus]

Strat and SG through a couple of amps

Here's a quick guitar solo. There are two parts, a rhythm guitar and a lead guitar, then together in the mix.

The rhythm is an SG through the Mesa V:25 and a 1x12 closed back cab, miked with an SM57.

The lead is a Strat through the Tubemeister 18 and the same cab and mic.

Both parts are doubled. Delay is the Strymon Timeline.

On Ou Way to Jordan_Ray Taylor_2017_solo_SG_MkV_57_ST_TM_57 .mp3 - Google Drive

 

[JohnnyAmato]

(Copied from the other thread, sorry didn't mean to stir anything up, wasn't aware of the situation )

Not even sure why I'm posting this, figured what the heck. A few weeks ago, I was playing Limelight with the tones from my GNX3000 board that I use when the band plays it live, and was sitting in front of my ProTools rig, so I recorded it for the fun of it. Didn't take long and was a nice break from all the more serious stuff I'm working on. Threw the bass and solo down as well. Actually forgot I even did it, was going through my folder, seen it, and was like 'oh yea that's right'...

There's some delay, which is obviously most likely not on the original song. I just like how it sounds when we perform it, so I've always left a little delay on these patches. I usually have more chorus on it as well, but turned that down because I double-tracked it and thought that would sound weird. It's also kind of louder than I expected; after I did the scratch recording I threw a limiter on it just for some volume, and since there's no drums I guess it brought the guitar up pretty hot. Whoops...

Anyway, again it was just for fun. It might be a future project to record a full-blown cover, the wife sings it beautifully, I just wouldn't be looking forward to programming those drums...

Dropbox - LimelightTonesDemo1.wav

 

[Robus]

Wow, that sounds spot on. Great playing. Does your drummer have the chops, or will you program?

It sounded too much on the FX for listening solo. Maybe it all comes together in the mix.