The great tube amp vs. solidstate/POD/whatever shootout.
- Thread starter ametth
- Start date
faithmonster
New member
so real, only his roadie knows for sure...
OK, here goes.
Clip #1 is tube.
Clip #2 is solid state.
Clip #3 is POD.
Do I win?
Faithmonster
OK, here goes.
Clip #1 is tube.
Clip #2 is solid state.
Clip #3 is POD.
Do I win?
Faithmonster
The clips are way too different to make this a fair comparison- just an observation, not criticism- but I'll play anyway.
#1 solid state- If this a pod, c'mon dude, you can do better than that! sounds like some cheap ring modulated crap. *Ridiculous*
#2 some kind of emulator- I only say this 'cuz it sounds too complete to be a home recordist miking up a cab. This could be taken as an insult to home recordists in general, my apologies, but it's a fair assumption, or a compliment to whoever made the recording. *This is the best clip.*
#3 tube amp- I only say this cuz it sounds too muffled and boxy, like a poorly miked amp in a bedroom, and I'm guessing the recordists wouldn't have gone through the trouble for a solid-state amp in this shoot-out. *Garage band demo*
#1 solid state- If this a pod, c'mon dude, you can do better than that! sounds like some cheap ring modulated crap. *Ridiculous*
#2 some kind of emulator- I only say this 'cuz it sounds too complete to be a home recordist miking up a cab. This could be taken as an insult to home recordists in general, my apologies, but it's a fair assumption, or a compliment to whoever made the recording. *This is the best clip.*
#3 tube amp- I only say this cuz it sounds too muffled and boxy, like a poorly miked amp in a bedroom, and I'm guessing the recordists wouldn't have gone through the trouble for a solid-state amp in this shoot-out. *Garage band demo*
pchorman
New member
So far no one guessed entirely correctly, although some seem to have the pattern down: there is only one real tube amp in those recordings, which happens to have 12AX7A's in the pre and EL34's in its power section.
Please hold back comments on the sloppiness of my playing; this is a tone issue and I'd be emotionally scarred forever. Recordings were made using a single SM57 about 3 inches from the grill, feeding a Yamaha MT-50 4-track at bedroom volumes (and with my wife still complaining). No POD was involved and there were no in-line or external effects, just internal amp reverb and distortion, or amp modelling. The DMA is a Line6 AX2.
Personally, I'm happy that there's some confusion over which sounds are analog vs digital.
Please hold back comments on the sloppiness of my playing; this is a tone issue and I'd be emotionally scarred forever. Recordings were made using a single SM57 about 3 inches from the grill, feeding a Yamaha MT-50 4-track at bedroom volumes (and with my wife still complaining). No POD was involved and there were no in-line or external effects, just internal amp reverb and distortion, or amp modelling. The DMA is a Line6 AX2.
Personally, I'm happy that there's some confusion over which sounds are analog vs digital.
Based on PC speakers at low volume (work):
#1 sounded a little muddy for my tastes - but not terrible
#2 "rounder" and fuller than #1 (if that makes sense)
#3 my favourite
All three were ok but none were outstanding.
Tube? Solid State? Emulator? Digital? Creative farting?
I don't know and I don't care.
#1 sounded a little muddy for my tastes - but not terrible
#2 "rounder" and fuller than #1 (if that makes sense)
#3 my favourite
All three were ok but none were outstanding.
Tube? Solid State? Emulator? Digital? Creative farting?
I don't know and I don't care.
Blue Bear Sound
New member
I personally liked the tone of #2 overall... #3 is my second choice. #1 was too buzzy for my tastes.
Which is POD, solid state, tube?? I don't care - it's the tone result that I care about, not how you got there!
Bruce
Which is POD, solid state, tube?? I don't care - it's the tone result that I care about, not how you got there!
Bruce
ruebarb
New member
my guess
1 - Pod
2 - Tube
3 - Solid State
I make my guess based on
1. The pristine sterile quality of #1 and
2. The background noise in #2 sounds like another amplifier or noise somewhere (maybe track leakage...but I'd swear there was ambient noise there)
I just don't like #3 - so I'm hoping solid state.
More on this...I've been playing with my tube amp (Crate Vintage Amp 50) for 5 years, and between that and a Korg A4, I had become a bit of a guitar god for awhile...lots of tone questions from other guitar players which is always flattering.
I have purchased a Line 6 Flextone 2 amp, and I'm a bit frustrated with it...It just doesn't have the same warmth, even with a Les Paul...so I'm thinking of fusing the two...maybe use Line 6 clean tones and hit the fuzz on the Crate for distortion...I don't know.
1 - Pod
2 - Tube
3 - Solid State
I make my guess based on
1. The pristine sterile quality of #1 and
2. The background noise in #2 sounds like another amplifier or noise somewhere (maybe track leakage...but I'd swear there was ambient noise there)
I just don't like #3 - so I'm hoping solid state.
More on this...I've been playing with my tube amp (Crate Vintage Amp 50) for 5 years, and between that and a Korg A4, I had become a bit of a guitar god for awhile...lots of tone questions from other guitar players which is always flattering.
I have purchased a Line 6 Flextone 2 amp, and I'm a bit frustrated with it...It just doesn't have the same warmth, even with a Les Paul...so I'm thinking of fusing the two...maybe use Line 6 clean tones and hit the fuzz on the Crate for distortion...I don't know.
BBB
Member
Blue Bear Sound said:
Ditto.
I'm curious, was the neck position pickup used for the first two GnR tunes and a bridge used for the last Kravitz tune?
I don't have much of a preference because different tones have different applications depending on the style and depending on the song.
#2 was fuller than #1
Playing songs that incorporate different positions on the neck affect the tone quality which makes it difficult to pass judgment. It would have been nice to have all three clips be of the same song.
Matt
pchorman
New member
Matt: yes to your pickup selections.
Ruebarb and others: there was no POD or use of line-out, just speaker to mic diaphrams with air in the middle.
Please keep in mind that the three files should not imply three different amps/devices.
ametth: thanks again for posting them. No vote?
Ruebarb and others: there was no POD or use of line-out, just speaker to mic diaphrams with air in the middle.
Please keep in mind that the three files should not imply three different amps/devices.
ametth: thanks again for posting them. No vote?
Wide Awake
New member
All three clips were were Line 6 modeling. Clip number 3-the intro part was the tube amp.
I think miking a modeling amp kind of defeats the purpose, because that's not how most people record with modelers. I wish you would have used the direct out on the AX2. Does it have an XLR or 1/4" out ?
I think miking a modeling amp kind of defeats the purpose, because that's not how most people record with modelers. I wish you would have used the direct out on the AX2. Does it have an XLR or 1/4" out ?
Slackmaster2K
Gone
Hmmm. I don't think any of these clips sound very real. I'm not dissing the playing, but the recordings themselves suck. There are also some nasty MP3 artifacts...ringing and buzzing...alot just from the tape noise, but it directly interferes with the guitars.
#1 is sort of the tone I would shoot for. Bright and smooth. I would want this to be the tube amp, but what's with the buzzing and ringing...makes it sound very very thin and digital? I can't tell what this is. Sounds sorta like a marshall amp hiding behind all that crap. In this style of guitar, a tube amp isn't going to sound big and fat, it's going to sound smooth. I believe that slash uses a marshall stack, and his tone was more smooth than fat.
#2 sounds bigger, but it's just all around a better recording. Not fair to judge this one against the first one but.... I would guess this to be the Line6, with the line6 or solid state amp coming in for the rythym which is super crass.
#3 is the worst tone-wise of all, so it's hard to judge. It's very muddy and hard to tell exactly what it is. The muddiness has me jumping up and saying Line6, but I just can't do it with any assurance. The distortion quality has me thinking that it's the solid state.
This isn't fair in many respects. First of all there should be a certain tone you're shooting for. I don't reckon that you'd use any of these clips in a real recording. Just turning three amps on and randomly positioning a microphone in front of all three doesn't make it fair. In fact, it only proves that a crappy amp can sound better than a great amp in a recording, and emphisizes the importance of placement, room, and EQ (both on the guitar and amp). Finally, we don't know what amps we're dealing with...there are plenty of garbage tube amps, and some pretty nice sounding solid states.
But since this is the big "contest" or whatever, and I'm always nagging about the stupid POD...I guess it's only fair that I make my guesses official:
1) Tube
2) Line6, perhaps the rythm is s/s
3) s/s
For recording quality, though, I would say #2, #3, then #1, only because #1 is flawed to the point where it's unusable (for whatever reason).
Slackmaster 2000
#1 is sort of the tone I would shoot for. Bright and smooth. I would want this to be the tube amp, but what's with the buzzing and ringing...makes it sound very very thin and digital? I can't tell what this is. Sounds sorta like a marshall amp hiding behind all that crap. In this style of guitar, a tube amp isn't going to sound big and fat, it's going to sound smooth. I believe that slash uses a marshall stack, and his tone was more smooth than fat.
#2 sounds bigger, but it's just all around a better recording. Not fair to judge this one against the first one but.... I would guess this to be the Line6, with the line6 or solid state amp coming in for the rythym which is super crass.
#3 is the worst tone-wise of all, so it's hard to judge. It's very muddy and hard to tell exactly what it is. The muddiness has me jumping up and saying Line6, but I just can't do it with any assurance. The distortion quality has me thinking that it's the solid state.
This isn't fair in many respects. First of all there should be a certain tone you're shooting for. I don't reckon that you'd use any of these clips in a real recording. Just turning three amps on and randomly positioning a microphone in front of all three doesn't make it fair. In fact, it only proves that a crappy amp can sound better than a great amp in a recording, and emphisizes the importance of placement, room, and EQ (both on the guitar and amp). Finally, we don't know what amps we're dealing with...there are plenty of garbage tube amps, and some pretty nice sounding solid states.
But since this is the big "contest" or whatever, and I'm always nagging about the stupid POD...I guess it's only fair that I make my guesses official:
1) Tube
2) Line6, perhaps the rythm is s/s
3) s/s
For recording quality, though, I would say #2, #3, then #1, only because #1 is flawed to the point where it's unusable (for whatever reason).
Slackmaster 2000
#3 sounds like the tube amp to me,....fwiw, a friend has a AX2 and it's a good amp, he records some tones with it that sound really good....also, you shoulda recorded all three playing the same tune though for a 'lil more scientificalityness. 
#2 sounds like the AX2
#1 sounds solid state
#2 sounds like the AX2
#1 sounds solid state
Blue Bear Sound
New member
heh-heh-heh *evil, insidious laugh*
pchorman
New member
I wish I knew what some of you meant by buzzing and ringing, especially with the first case. My untrained ears just don't register any sort of anomalies that I'd characterize this way. Can you please give me some kind of analogy or frame of reference to understand this "buzzing" and "ringing"? Perhaps I can learn a thing or two from your observations.
You're right in that this is a totally unfair comparison. As mentioned in the first thread which kicked this off, there's no way to remove all variables which contribute so significantly to the sound. There is no way to mic two different amps identically, for example, and I simply didn't put in the time required to shoot for equivalent sounds when I switched amps. My only aim was to see whether a digitally modelled amp could be confused for what many of you consider a more "pure" tube sound, and so far the vast majority can't tell. Your observations are very intersting and all have merit. Some subtle comments that were made hit the nail head-on.
The AX2 line-out is really bad, which is why it was not used.
Thanks for the feedback. I'm open for any more recording or tone suggestion you may have. A few more guesses and I'll mention the sources used above.
You're right in that this is a totally unfair comparison. As mentioned in the first thread which kicked this off, there's no way to remove all variables which contribute so significantly to the sound. There is no way to mic two different amps identically, for example, and I simply didn't put in the time required to shoot for equivalent sounds when I switched amps. My only aim was to see whether a digitally modelled amp could be confused for what many of you consider a more "pure" tube sound, and so far the vast majority can't tell. Your observations are very intersting and all have merit. Some subtle comments that were made hit the nail head-on.
The AX2 line-out is really bad, which is why it was not used.
Thanks for the feedback. I'm open for any more recording or tone suggestion you may have. A few more guesses and I'll mention the sources used above.
Cyrokk
Farce of Nature
Sure why not.. I've gotten use to getting things wrong and looking like a stupid-ass..
The first one sounded like a tube.. but since the second one was noisier I'll go with the first one being the amp modeler and the second one was mic'd tube..
I'll guess the third one was solid state.. even though you used a "solid state" sound and normally this would give hint to being a trick question
What do I win, Alex?
Cy
The first one sounded like a tube.. but since the second one was noisier I'll go with the first one being the amp modeler and the second one was mic'd tube..
I'll guess the third one was solid state.. even though you used a "solid state" sound and normally this would give hint to being a trick question
What do I win, Alex?
Cy
Aaron Cheney
Favorite Chord: C 6/9
If I had to guess, (and I do!) I'd say:
#1 Obviously very bright, almost like an amp mic'ed right in the center of the speaker or off-axis. (or maybe transistors?)
#2 Sound like the same sound source to me, but mic'ed towards the edge of the cone and straight on. A much better choice. It has a more "perfect" tone, like a modeler tends to.
#3 Sounds like a poorly mic'ed speaker. I'd guess this is tubes.
But I really think #1 and #2 are the same source modified in some way.
And wether I'm right or wrong, I'd have to say this: The fact that there are so many different guesses is very telling. We all recognize the basic tonal qualites, but it's obvious that there is no concensus of which are tubes and which are not.
All could be musically useful.
Aaron
http://www.aaroncheney.com
#1 Obviously very bright, almost like an amp mic'ed right in the center of the speaker or off-axis. (or maybe transistors?)
#2 Sound like the same sound source to me, but mic'ed towards the edge of the cone and straight on. A much better choice. It has a more "perfect" tone, like a modeler tends to.
#3 Sounds like a poorly mic'ed speaker. I'd guess this is tubes.
But I really think #1 and #2 are the same source modified in some way.
And wether I'm right or wrong, I'd have to say this: The fact that there are so many different guesses is very telling. We all recognize the basic tonal qualites, but it's obvious that there is no concensus of which are tubes and which are not.
All could be musically useful.
Aaron
http://www.aaroncheney.com