The final word on budget and gear...
- Thread starter Fireal402
- Start date
My thoughts on this......
There is no final word on anything until God breaks his silence.
There's not broken, and then there's not perfect. "If it ain't broken don't fix it" doesn't apply in the pursuit of perfection, silly as that pursuit may be.
Search is something you should do on a topic prior to opening up a new discussion on it, NOT something you should do INSTEAD of opening up a discussion on peoples latest thoughts on it, IMHO. This is a discussion board, not an archive. Done discussing that, don't click on the thread. Think of it as a living document, constantly evolving.
Lastly, I think it's Ads and salespeople who tell people what to buy, not people on this BBS. This is a source for non conflict of interest opinions, and very valuable for that.
that's all, carry on......
There is no final word on anything until God breaks his silence.
There's not broken, and then there's not perfect. "If it ain't broken don't fix it" doesn't apply in the pursuit of perfection, silly as that pursuit may be.
Search is something you should do on a topic prior to opening up a new discussion on it, NOT something you should do INSTEAD of opening up a discussion on peoples latest thoughts on it, IMHO. This is a discussion board, not an archive. Done discussing that, don't click on the thread. Think of it as a living document, constantly evolving.
Lastly, I think it's Ads and salespeople who tell people what to buy, not people on this BBS. This is a source for non conflict of interest opinions, and very valuable for that.
that's all, carry on......
fritzmusic
Member
Can we make this a sticky? Fireal402 is right on the mark.
Good Friend
New member
drum machine
you dont think drum machine adds too much of an artificial sound to the song?
you dont think drum machine adds too much of an artificial sound to the song?
First of all, while I agree with the OP's basic premise and sentiment, we of course realize this will not stop the repetative questions. If we could somehow reorganize the BBS so that you had to get past certain stickies or FAQs to be able to post, it might cut down on it, but I don't think that's gonna happen either. As warble & stetto said, it's the nature of the beast.
Good Friend
As chris-from-ky said, some of us want to be better engineers than musicians, and while I believe he meant that in a negative way, meaning we get sidetracked from our music by getting caught up in the whole recording end of things, some of us here actually, unapologetically, are into the recording part in and of itself. We want to be audio photographers, if you will, not painters. While the photographer may compose the shot, he doesn't necessarily create the subject matter. I like to take nature photographs, but I didn't create the scenery. I can include what I want, omit what I don't to an extent, come at if from various angles, try different settings or filters, but I didn't create the sunrise on the beach, or the clouds. There are photographers who do create their subject matter in a studio, selecting subjects, posing, and accessorizing them. Sometimes it's to make an artistic statement, or social or political commentary. Sometimes it's just a pretty picture. That doesn't make my interest any less valid than theirs. Some guys (and I use the term generically) want to either be the next Stevie Ray or Hendrix guitar gods, some want to be the next big rock star/rapper with their groupies/hos. I want to be the next Alan Parsons, using the studio as an instrument to create music that I like, and hope that somebody else will like it too. This is admittedly, occaisionally a substitute for sheer musical talent on any given instrument. Sometimes it's not. Sometimes, I just like to make pleasing sounds. Not any less valid a pursuit than yours.
Sorry I'm rambling again, especially since this probably isn't the place for it. I hear your frustration, and even though venting feels good, it's not really going to change anything. And just remember that your opinions of what's important are just that - your opinions. I'm with fraserhutch on this one.
Good Friend
As chris-from-ky said, some of us want to be better engineers than musicians, and while I believe he meant that in a negative way, meaning we get sidetracked from our music by getting caught up in the whole recording end of things, some of us here actually, unapologetically, are into the recording part in and of itself. We want to be audio photographers, if you will, not painters. While the photographer may compose the shot, he doesn't necessarily create the subject matter. I like to take nature photographs, but I didn't create the scenery. I can include what I want, omit what I don't to an extent, come at if from various angles, try different settings or filters, but I didn't create the sunrise on the beach, or the clouds. There are photographers who do create their subject matter in a studio, selecting subjects, posing, and accessorizing them. Sometimes it's to make an artistic statement, or social or political commentary. Sometimes it's just a pretty picture. That doesn't make my interest any less valid than theirs. Some guys (and I use the term generically) want to either be the next Stevie Ray or Hendrix guitar gods, some want to be the next big rock star/rapper with their groupies/hos. I want to be the next Alan Parsons, using the studio as an instrument to create music that I like, and hope that somebody else will like it too. This is admittedly, occaisionally a substitute for sheer musical talent on any given instrument. Sometimes it's not. Sometimes, I just like to make pleasing sounds. Not any less valid a pursuit than yours.
Sorry I'm rambling again, especially since this probably isn't the place for it. I hear your frustration, and even though venting feels good, it's not really going to change anything. And just remember that your opinions of what's important are just that - your opinions. I'm with fraserhutch on this one.
sweetnubs
New member
here's my take: Yep johnny joe meek and sally samson will realize year after year that their skill and equipment are lacking and will upgrade and improve over time. (notice I emphasize skill here which is the more salient issue) They will upgrade and upgrade year after year and hone their skills year after year, now 5 grand later and several years later their sound will still not approach that of a really experienced and accomodating engineer with a properly constructed studio with good sounding rooms and good equipment. Now would audrey aleisis and roger rnc have been better off spending 5 grand and getting a really good recording (ie. suitable for commercial release) of their band in a few weeks or would micky mackie and angela audio buddy be better off having spent 5 grand and waiting 3 years to get an ok demo recording? Come folks and make a visit to sweetnubs sound and I will sprinkle your audio with sugar and sassafrass ......
Reggie
PutsTheLotionOnItsSkin
Maybe this should be moved to this thread:
https://homerecording.com/bbs/showthread.php?p=1870989#post1870989
https://homerecording.com/bbs/showthread.php?p=1870989#post1870989
Warhead
Jai guru deva om
Fireal402 said:
I admit I've skimmed this thread, but I think I get the point. I wanted to add:
Crossfade is a band from Columbia, SC. The album is selling like crazy, and they hold the record for most played radio song in 2004 with "Cold".
The album was recorded in their house, on a cracked version of Cakewalk, with a $300 AKG microphone, drum triggers and a Pod for guitars. The compression on the vocals heading in was a guitar pedal.
They have also elected to record their next album themselves at home as well. This time they have a bit more budget though!
So you can beat yourself up over gear all day long, but until you realize you've got more tools at your fingertips than the Beatles EVER had and many bands since then...the gear might not be what's holding you back.
Get the basics covered and play.
War
blazingstrings
dgatwood can **** himself
Mr. Moon said:
You just need to stop having babies Mr.Moon!
Stop having babies and head on over to American Guitar Boutique for the Sonar User group!
HAHAHA!
-Blaze
Fireal402
Eyeballs! OH MY GOD EYES
I'm not knocking people getting help here at all. I think this forum as a resource is one of the best out there, with down to earth people that have offered great advice that has helped me understand recording more as an art form and less as a tool.
I'm one of those people that thinks engineers should focus more on the art side of engineering. Learn your gear inside and out, figure out how to utilize your effects to their maximum potential, but don't get sucked into the gear frenzy.
I've been getting in a number of arguments with my engineer friends over name verus noticable quality. Some of them think that buying a neve means your getting something special. It does, but only if you comprehend what that something special is.
I'm one of those people that thinks engineers should focus more on the art side of engineering. Learn your gear inside and out, figure out how to utilize your effects to their maximum potential, but don't get sucked into the gear frenzy.
I've been getting in a number of arguments with my engineer friends over name verus noticable quality. Some of them think that buying a neve means your getting something special. It does, but only if you comprehend what that something special is.
chris-from-ky
New member
Well, not exactly. I meant what you said in the last 15 words of your sentance. Some of us here want to be better "audio photograhers" than "audio painters", if I may use your analogy.Cardioidpotent said:
You know, Warhead has a point when saying that we have more tools than the Beatles ever had to make their records. I agree that musicians should strive to be the best songwriters they can be. Afterall back in the Beatles time, if the song was crap, you couldn't just dump it into a PC slap some remix beats or use synths and processors to hide the crap. Nevertheless, those engineers that made great records back in the day had something many today don't. "innovation". Today, dudes get a CD of drum loops that somebody else "made", cut and paste them together and add a lyric that appeals to the masses and calls it a hit. They think that by saying it was recorded in Protools, that means something regardless of what the song actually sounds like. There's no more blood, sweat, and tears in making music anymore. You got guys saying, "I want to be the best producer in the world, but what is a microphone?" How can you know what recording is without knowing what a microphone is. That's like saying I want to be the best dairy farmer in the world... what is a cow?"
The bottom line (and forgive me for taking so long to get to it) is that everyone should strive for their "personal best". If someone desires to buy up all the highend gear they can in order to meet their personal best, who are we to say, "you're a fool, just buy a mic and a stereo recorder." If they buy all that gear and find out that it didn't help them to meet their potential, we should all be glad when his high end gear goes up for sale on the classified bbs. And for the folks who start off in the low end, if they meet their personal best there, good for them. if they have to keep buying and selling and buying and selling and buying and selling until they meet their potential, i hope it was worth all the hassle to them. FOR ME PERSONALLY, I started in the low end and I know I can NEVER meet my potential there. Thus, I wish I'd gone the higher end route first. Nevertheless, I am smarter for it and I won't make that mistake again. Others may have differing circumstances which lead them to other conlusions. As in life, recording is a journey. Walk, run, take a train, it's up to each individual how we get where we're going and how fast we get there.
Peace.
Mr. Moon
Force of Naked
blazingstrings said:You just need to stop having babies Mr.Moon!
Stop having babies and head on over to American Guitar Boutique for the Sonar User group!
HAHAHA!
-Blaze
Yo, dude, trust me, if "I" had the baby, and not my wife, I would be so frickin' rich off the royalties from the PR and books and movies that would be written/produced by/about me, I would set up my own studio for the sole purpose of running my own Sonar group!!!!
-mr moon
MISTERQCUE
Not Just Anutha Brutha
warble said:Although it is a great post and does make sense, it won't stop people from coming in here and continuing to ask the same questions, and the same thoughts will continue in regards to gear.
That is so true!
I thought you just got done saying that the quality of the song is more important than the quality of the sound.I think there's a lot of issues raised by this thread, probably enough to feul 3 or 4 into the 20+ page region...
To answer the OP- I think, for all the good points raised, it was a bit of a waste of a post. The majority of this forum is made up by the "I have X what should I buy?" threads. Whilst this may not seem like an important point, you need to have new threads to keep a community alive, even if those new threads are very similar to the last 50 threads. Trust me, I've run a few forums (a few into the ground) and with the "Search everything first, don't ask questions" attitude, your community dies, espescially one as knowledge-based as this one.
I'm fairly sure that the majority of people that join these forums realises that they're not going to get all the answers from here, and that our opnions should only be used as a guide. If they don't, then it's our responsibility to take them under our wing and show them what we're all about- that not everyone here is a Pro-engineer that's been in the industry for a million years, but people that are likely to be (or have been) in a similar situation. I know that a few of my purcahses have been influenced by these forums, others haven't.
Chris-from-ky also brings up another good point, the fact that not everyone knows what a microphone is. Hell, I've met audio engineers that don't even konw the basics of line-arrays, something that I consider a first principal of FOH audio. But, as a community, we have the knowledge to share to the people that might not know as much as they should. Not saying that we should force-feed people wave-guide and phase-shift theory, but we should be open with our knowledge, just like the "How do polar patterns...." thread in the Microphones forum.
Sure, everyone is going to "grow up" and buy new gear as they need it, and when they do, they're going to make sure they get the best bang for their buck. I know how long it takes to save up the money for a new bit of kit, and I also know the anxiety that comes with blowing what looks like your life savings on a 24-track recorder. We might not be able to give the best, nor the most consistent advice, but we can at least help to buffer that shock. And, at the end of the day, I think that's why most people post the "What should I buy with X?" posts- they've already dones their research, they've made their decision, they just ned something to either tip them over the edge, or grab them back from wasting their money.
Lastly, saying you have the "final word" will, inevidibly, make you look like a fool (even moreso than my crap spelling). Just remember that at the turn of the 20th century, physicists were saying that they pretty much had the universe summed up. In the following hundred years the expanding universe, quantum mechanics, relativity (both general and special) the photo-electric effect and pretty much our enitre industry were discovered. So, unless you've got your finger on the trigger to blow up the world, try and avoid the phrase "final word".
Rabu and peace (for the Excel Saga fans out there)
Crud
To answer the OP- I think, for all the good points raised, it was a bit of a waste of a post. The majority of this forum is made up by the "I have X what should I buy?" threads. Whilst this may not seem like an important point, you need to have new threads to keep a community alive, even if those new threads are very similar to the last 50 threads. Trust me, I've run a few forums (a few into the ground) and with the "Search everything first, don't ask questions" attitude, your community dies, espescially one as knowledge-based as this one.
I'm fairly sure that the majority of people that join these forums realises that they're not going to get all the answers from here, and that our opnions should only be used as a guide. If they don't, then it's our responsibility to take them under our wing and show them what we're all about- that not everyone here is a Pro-engineer that's been in the industry for a million years, but people that are likely to be (or have been) in a similar situation. I know that a few of my purcahses have been influenced by these forums, others haven't.
Chris-from-ky also brings up another good point, the fact that not everyone knows what a microphone is. Hell, I've met audio engineers that don't even konw the basics of line-arrays, something that I consider a first principal of FOH audio. But, as a community, we have the knowledge to share to the people that might not know as much as they should. Not saying that we should force-feed people wave-guide and phase-shift theory, but we should be open with our knowledge, just like the "How do polar patterns...." thread in the Microphones forum.
Sure, everyone is going to "grow up" and buy new gear as they need it, and when they do, they're going to make sure they get the best bang for their buck. I know how long it takes to save up the money for a new bit of kit, and I also know the anxiety that comes with blowing what looks like your life savings on a 24-track recorder. We might not be able to give the best, nor the most consistent advice, but we can at least help to buffer that shock. And, at the end of the day, I think that's why most people post the "What should I buy with X?" posts- they've already dones their research, they've made their decision, they just ned something to either tip them over the edge, or grab them back from wasting their money.
Lastly, saying you have the "final word" will, inevidibly, make you look like a fool (even moreso than my crap spelling). Just remember that at the turn of the 20th century, physicists were saying that they pretty much had the universe summed up. In the following hundred years the expanding universe, quantum mechanics, relativity (both general and special) the photo-electric effect and pretty much our enitre industry were discovered. So, unless you've got your finger on the trigger to blow up the world, try and avoid the phrase "final word".
Rabu and peace (for the Excel Saga fans out there)
Crud
junplugged
Taking the slow road
new people, new words
well, if all people wanted was information, they'd read a book. this is an interactive forum that goes beyond dry info, new people, new words, new connections made, good thing there's no final word on anything.
well, if all people wanted was information, they'd read a book. this is an interactive forum that goes beyond dry info, new people, new words, new connections made, good thing there's no final word on anything.