The final word on budget and gear...

Fireal402

Fireal402

Eyeballs! OH MY GOD EYES
Every day, I visit this site. And every day, I see 800 new posts where people have money to spend and want to know what to get next. And then another 800 posts on which cheap gear is good.

Well, I'm going to explain all the things I know about these two topics, so hopefully people will stop asking questions they can answer themselves.

BUDGET: First and foremost, just because you have money doesn't mean you need to buy something. The ONLY time you should upgrade your gear is if you notice something that's not up to par. How will you know if it's not up to par? Trust your ears. As you record, your ears get better, and what sounds fine now won't sound good in a year. But why spend the money now when you won't notice a difference? It's immensely frustrating seeing how many people here waste money on gear that they won't be able to utilize. If your Behringer pres sound fine, use them until they don't, then move on to something else.
Second, though asking people for their opinions is good, don't only rely on them. You won't go out and buy a car based on a BBS members word and only that, and the same deal applies to gear.

GEAR: Here's what pisses me off the most, and ties into budget: The whole BS circling around what companies are good and bad. This is a twofold issue, and it forms a sort of paradox, so bear with me.
As a homereccer, the final say on quality is yours. If you think your ART compressor is the best thing since sliced bread, then it is. BUT only for you.
Once you move from internal needs to external needs, the playing field changes, and ART isn't such a great company anymore. Sure, you may not be able to hear the difference, but there are 100 other people who can and who've already progressed past ART, and saying that their opinion is not valid because you don't think so is hearsay. You wouldn't tell Lance Armstrong to use a Wal-Mart bike, would you?

Here's an example of how all this mumbo jumbo works in real life:
Joe has just started recording. He knows very little, and using a reccomendation from a friend, gets a Boss 8-track and a Nady mic. He uses this gear for a year, and is pleased with the results. During the second year, though, he notices that the Nady mic sounds a little harsh, so he gets a Shure KSM condensor.
Another year goes by, and Joe starts to push the limits of the Boss. Time for another upgrade, so he moves to a PC based system with an MAudio soundcard and Cubasis and a pair of MAudio SP5B's. He uses this for a while, and realizes he doesn't have enough mics. He picks up a couple more for a different variety of sounds, and all is well.
Fast foward a year, and Joe is unhappy with his sound. His mixes seem to be lacking clarity. He has a few choices to make on what to get next, and he decides to upgrade the preamps to Grace. immediately he notices a difference, and is pleased with his purchase.
His next upgrade is the monitor speakers, because even though he can hear with the SP5s, he just can't hear all the high and low end that he needs to mix well, and the speakers seem to color the sound. He moves up to a pair of Mackies, and all is well again.

What does that mean? Trust yourself when you need an upgrade, and only yourself. If you notice something is wrong, fix it, but if nothing is wrong, don'
t mess around with it.
 
As your expertise in recording increases, your ears become more alert to subtle differences. As Fireal402 says, there will come a time when what sounded fine once will sound lacking in some way now. This, then, is the time to thinking about upgrading.

Fireal's advice highlights the importance of critical listening and of learning to tune your ears.

Another important point (that I have mentioned elsewhere) is having sufficient strength to resist peer pressure for upgrades, specially when they challenge your budget.

If you are going to invest, the time is when you (and only you) discern a need to, where that need is based on a musical priority.

Thank you for your post, fireal!
 
yeah, this would make sense. While i find my recordings to be nicely done, my buddy who does it professionally knocks me all the time! As for buying stuff, i agree, if its not broke, dont fix it! but then again, who doesnt like shiny new equiptment once in a while...
 
Although it is a great post and does make sense, it won't stop people from coming in here and continuing to ask the same questions, and the same thoughts will continue in regards to gear. :)
 
Warble's right, the repeats will never end, that's the nature of internet forums...I'd say that at least 90% of us don't use the search function until after they post a question (guilty), and of course the more popular items will come up again and again and again, not to mention the obligatory "What's the best ____ for the money and why?" There are new people getting into recording every day, new people discovering these sites every day, and it's a LOT easier to simply post a question than do the exhaustive button pushing and reading involved in the SEARCH function...

Good points Fireal402, but you might as well try reversing the earth's gravity field, much less human nature on the internet...

Eric
 
Big Kenny said:
Was that the final word? You must be talking to my wife
Click to expand...

The final word from my wife was to go ahead and get the Presonus ADL600. So, I went ahead and got it. What finally sold her was the great deal I got on it; she couldn't pass up saving that much money, being the deal-seeker she is... :D

DOH!! Wrong thread ...but strangely appropriate to my current situation! :rolleyes:

Personally, there is no peer pressure I feel to upgrade gear (except when I read "EQ" or "Recording" magazine!), but as has been pointed out earlier in this thread, I upgrade gear when I find that what I have is no longer working for me.

Case in point: My first set of "real" (loosely applied here) audio monitors was a pair of Alesis M1 MKII's. For the first year I had them, they worked great, especially for the price I paid for them. After that, I began to notice that they did not accurately reproduce what was really "going on" in the music. I was having to remix tunes over and over again because I was not able to "learn" them well enough to make a mix translate to other systems well. Now, this was not something that suddenly happened to the monitors themselves, it was actually that my "ear" developed above the capabilities of the monitors. Sure, I could have just kept using them, but they were becoming tedious to have to work with day in and day out, and when I scraped together some extra cash, I made the decision to purchase a pair of monitors which suited me better. My decision; no gun pointed to my head and no-one was "forcing" me to do so. Fortunately, there were plenty of folks who were willing to give me opinions on what gear to buy when I posted a message here asking for help. ;) ...I did not receive any pre-emptive emails or messages telling me I needed to upgrade my monitors either, that would have been spooky! :eek:

BTW: Even if there is pressure out there to upgrade gear (magazines and such mostly), you make the decision yourself on how to respond to it. You don't have to cave in to whatever pressure you may feel comes from others to upgrade. Take the power back! Stop the insanity!!!! :cool:

...But I gotta tell ya', that ADL600 looks SWEEEEEEEET in my rack! :p

-mr moon
 
fireal402 said:
Well, I'm going to explain all the things I know about these two topics, so hopefully people will stop asking questions they can answer themselves.
Click to expand...
Gee, thanks for the final word. Incidentally, just WHO are you, and what qualifies YOU to have the final word?

Sheesh.
 
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fraserhutch said:
Gee, thanks for the final word. Incidentally, just WHO are you, and what qualifies YOU to have the final word?

Sheesh.
Click to expand...

Apparently, I did not have the final xxxx as I thought I did, as you used that xxxx 2 times in your post. So, my friend, you seem to have the final xxxx!

:eek:

Use the power of the final xxxx wisely, for strong with the force it is... :D

-mr moon

(P.S. - D@mn, I need to get out more often! :D )
 
Fireal402 said:
Joe has just started recording. He knows very little, and using a reccomendation from a friend, gets a Boss 8-track and a Nady mic. He uses this gear for a year, and is pleased with the results. During the second year, though, he notices that the Nady mic sounds a little harsh, so he gets a Shure KSM condensor.
Another year goes by, and Joe starts to push the limits of the Boss. Time for another upgrade, so he moves to a PC based system with an MAudio soundcard and Cubasis and a pair of MAudio SP5B's. He uses this for a while, and realizes he doesn't have enough mics. He picks up a couple more for a different variety of sounds, and all is well.
Fast foward a year, and Joe is unhappy with his sound. His mixes seem to be lacking clarity. He has a few choices to make on what to get next, and he decides to upgrade the preamps to Grace. immediately he notices a difference, and is pleased with his purchase.
His next upgrade is the monitor speakers, because even though he can hear with the SP5s, he just can't hear all the high and low end that he needs to mix well, and the speakers seem to color the sound. He moves up to a pair of Mackies, and all is well again.
Click to expand...

And by this time, Joe is answering those questions instead of asking them.....
 
Mr. Moon said:
Apparently, I did not have the final xxxx as I thought I did, as you used that xxxx 2 times in your post. So, my friend, you seem to have the final xxxx!

:eek:

Use the power of the final xxxx wisely, for strong with the force it is... :D

-mr moon

(P.S. - D@mn, I need to get out more often! :D )
Click to expand...
I wasn't referring to YOU, I was referring to the OP :)
 
Whats more important than all

Hardly anyone ever says this as much as it should be said. But if you are a professional producer trying to record for a living, then what quality of mics and preamps and whatever does matter because you are in a professional world and what you have will either attract or chase off potential customers.

But if you are just a home recordist trying to capture your musical performances, 90 percent of your time should be spent on learning to play and write better. If you are spending all your time reading about what monitors to get then you are wasting energy. What good is clarity and eq and all that when your tunes have boring chord progressions and bad off time drumming? I always listen to guys recordings on here and they have 10 grand worth of mics and monitors and they arent even playing drums correctly. A good drummer will sound good with just one lousy mic up.

I read some genius quote somewhere but i cant remember who said it or the exact wording, but i think it was "these days, the instruments are playing the musicians". I cant think of a better way to describe the current state of music both pro and home.

I dont want to seem like i have all the answers. But for me if the instrument is tuned all i would ever NEED to practice composition and arranging is an sm58 and a 4 track analog or digital.

No real musician cares if the tune is good and the performance is good.

I think its just easier to buy shit rather than learn and practice. Everyone just learns a few guitar licks and calls it a day. If you think im wrong just listen to everyones home recordings. Bad drumming, low energy, electric guitar given way too much priority, way too many overdubs, and worse of all bad song and bad singing.

Good luck trying to find mics and mixers to fix your playing.
If i know home rec forums ill be flamed for saying to practice writing and playing rather than buying more expensive stuff.
 
Good Friend said:
If you are spending all your time reading about what monitors to get then you are wasting energy. What good is clarity and eq and all that when your tunes have boring chord progressions and bad off time drumming?
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That's why I use a drum machine. Always on time and never any creative (or lack thereof) input on the arrangement. :D

Good Friend said:
If i know home rec forums ill be flamed for saying to practice writing and playing rather than buying more expensive stuff.
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I can appreciate your comments. Some of us want to be better "engineers" rather than musicians which causes us to experience a greater degree of gear lust. In that regard an sm58 and a 4 track won't cut the mustard. But you should be flamed just for thinking that you would be and not giving the rest of us the benefit of the doubt, you punk. :D
 
yeah but

With just a 58 and lets say a teac two speed 4 track you could really do alot. Im a firm believer that contrast is more noticeable to listeners than fidelity.

with the 58 youd get this variety:
close miced vs distant miced
on axis vs off axis
miced vs direct injected
straight miced vs reamped and miced again

and with the teac youd get this variety:
seperate tracks vs bounced (hey they will sound different than single tracks)
normal speed vs half speed or double speed (make your bell kit sound like a full xylophone or whatever)
normal speed vs varispeed (make your piano sound plunkier or brighter, make your voice sound a little higher or lower)
normal saturation vs heavy saturation (of the tape)

plus with all the panning tricks and eq, not to mention just a cheap reverb of any kind, even reamping thru your amp reverb to get reverb, there are a hundred more contrasts you can create within one songs tracks using only one lousy mic and one lousy recorder.

If only fidelity matters, than ony the highest fidelity would ever entertain people. But there are all kinds of levels of fidelity and quality that people buy into and enjoy. So whats the conclusion? The tonal, spacial, functional qualities of the tracks as they lay against each other is most important to make it sound interesting. The tracks only need to be "as different as" the other existing tracks for contrast (interest) to take place. Im not saying everyone only needs this crap setup, but there would be years and years of experimentation before someone PERSONALLY exhausted all means to make an interesting and listenable recording even just using what is described above. Isnt that the point of home recording yourself?

Im sure using this simplified way of recording sickens and ruins the "point" for 95 percent of the people who come here to talk about whether or not to buy more stuff or what sounds better. But hey limitations let creativity reign.
 
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