The best string technique

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staring

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Hi guys,

I am new here. I want helps from experts out there. What would be the best string VST (free or non-free) for Cubase? I'd heard people saying about layering.... what's that?
 
I think that String Theory (or something like that) is decent. But it is free, so don't excpect the Philharmonic. Search for it here: www.kvr-vst.com
I'm pretty sure that it is at that website.

For non free, Garriton Personal Orchestra is supposed to be AWESOME. You could also check out Halion.

Layering is playing a part a bunch of times, to thicken it up, OR playing different parts over each other, instead of playing all of the parts at the same time. It depends on the context of what you're talking about.
 
Thanks tourettes5139,

I downloaded the String Theory already. I got to test it tonight.

Thanks again for the layering info. I always got into trouble when doing string section... i mean realistic string. I am wondering if there are good website/tools that i can refer to learn.
 
Garritan Personal Orchestra is great, BUT, it is pretty low key. Samples are looped after a second or 2, there are not that many articulations, there is no control of the vibrato on anything etc. The initial sound is superb.

Garritan Ochestral Strings is *supposedly* THE string library. It costs a bit and is huge, but very, very well respected.

Vienna Symphonic Libraries are the biggest, most elaborate libraries that I know off. Be prepared to fork out a wad of cash and a wad of time.

East West Quantum Leap libraries are well respected, bigger than GPO, smaller than VSL.

GPO, as well as EWQL and VSL all offer other orchestral instruments as well.

I could write a post the size of a Harry Potter book about string libraries but I'm gonna leave it at this ;)
 
Thanks Halion, my engineer friend did mention to me about the GPO low key. Gotta increase the gain higher then normal VST. I will check the tag price before getting one - preferably GPO.

tourettes5139, last night, I'd tried the String Theory. It's not bad. The sounds are good for FX but not string, IMO.
 
staring said:
tourettes5139, last night, I'd tried the String Theory. It's not bad. The sounds are good for FX but not string, IMO.

Really? I haven't actually used it that much (if at all, it was a while ago when I downloaded it. I may not have even used it).

OOPS. :o
 
I got a hand on the GPO.... wow it quite impressive. Drawback... hardly hear on its original setting, you push way up to 12db to get the proper listening. It CPU and RAM hungry.
 
staring said:
I got a hand on the GPO.... wow it quite impressive. Drawback... hardly hear on its original setting, you push way up to 12db to get the proper listening. It CPU and RAM hungry.

The volume and panning are designed for a full orchestral piece. If you use a full orchestra composition, the levels will be in balance, without instrument groups suddenly popping out of the mix.

You MUST use the mod wheel to increase the volume for every track. It is a way of controlling dynamics, and default, it's set to the lowest dynamic lvl (pp). Velocity is not used for volume, only for attack.
 
Edirol

Edirol Orchestral VST instrument..its not the most comprehensive string vst in the world..but it did the job for me couple of times..
 
The key to all this is knowing about strings ( see avatar) :D

Quality patches are the first step, but make sure you write in the correct registers for each instrument. A lot of people dont do this.

Articulations are what make strings unique. I suggest listening to as much string playing as you can. Bowings ( up/down) do a lot more than just looking good, they guide the phrasing.

We string players have a zillion attacks and a plethora of strokes to choose from. I like to mix up patches and use a different one in many pieces. I also layer like crazy, I use maybe 4 patches mixed together to do a cello section.

My collabing partner uses East/West samples. Not many "synths" can equal samples. One interesting "synth" is synful, google it or I think its www.synful.com I am not sure. Check out the demos they have, its pretty impressive. Keep in mind that its not as easy as it looks and most of the people know classical music really well.

Or you can do what I do and play the string parts in real instruments... :D
 
Halion, thanks. It's good to know great info from expert like you. I'm experimenting with this new toy and i think i'm obsessed to it!.

Audiohead27, how's the sound like, any link?

DavidK, 100% agree with you, to create a good string section should be the string player like you. Mmmmm... i'm no string player, that could be the reason :).

Well, i sort of creating string this way: I will listen to the lead vox, at the same times i'll 'hum' or 'aaaa' along. If I satisfy with the 'hum' thing then i record it to a track (as a guide). The track will be my guide as I record the string through. The attacks and a plethora of strokes will be my weakest link. It's time to buy classical record! Any suggestion, Dave?

Ahh.. you(david) did mention about layering... when you layer the four cellos, did you use the same patch or different sound from different VSTs? Did you adjust the delay for each track to make it sound fuller?
 
no prob starring, glad I could help :)

As for Edirol, I use that alot as well. The sound is not nearly good enough for me but it works very quickly and consists of an entire orchestral. Great for sketches/pre production.

About the articulations thing: I agree. Your standard "full strings" patch on a keyboard has 0 articulations. GPO has a couple of ways to increase the naturalness of the sound. First of all, there are 6 banks per string instrument:
Lush - Great for slow stuff, or as an added layer for a fuller sound.
Lush Mute - Same, but less treble, even more paddy than Lush.
Short - Short bows, with lots of attack on the higher velocity layers, almost spicato. Very nice for more rythmical pieces.
Short + Sustain - I don't really get why this is called that because to me it seems like just sustained notes. Great bank. Low velocities actually cause crescendos on this bank.
Short + Sustain Mute (I think) - Same, but a little less treble.
Key Switch - this is a 4 in 1 bank. Using keys below the instrument range, you can switch between pizzicato, tremolo, half step thriller and whole step thriller.

Chosing the right bank per part is very important. Than there's the legato pedal thing. You can use the sustain pedal to enter "legato mode", which kind of patches notes together, so that there is no tiny crescendo between notes. Using this on and off can yield very realistical results. Use the modulation wheel for some crescendos AND minor volume differences, even if no crescendo is wanted. All this can create a very good orchestral sound.
 
Oh, a couple more comments:

East West is great as well. Probably a bit better than GPO, but also more stressfull on the pc and alot more expensive.

I've tried Synful, because I was amazed at the demos on the website, but DAMN this thing takes alot of work and time! It's is basicly a very, very dry string sound of only 1 instrument (don't expect full section patches), and you need to input every tiny thing. A single note will sound dull and digital if you don't modulate the attack, vibrato and volume at the very least. It was way too much work for me. GPO uses samples instead of physical modeling (which Synful uses) which gives you less control, but more "instant niceness", so to speak :)
 
Halion said:
I've tried Synful, because I was amazed at the demos on the website, but DAMN this thing takes alot of work and time! It's is basicly a very, very dry string sound of only 1 instrument (don't expect full section patches), and you need to input every tiny thing. A single note will sound dull and digital if you don't modulate the attack, vibrato and volume at the very least. It was way too much work for me. GPO uses samples instead of physical modeling (which Synful uses) which gives you less control, but more "instant niceness", so to speak :)

Thats 100% correct. It's a specialist synth for solo lines and you gotta slap a ton of reverb on it. Its great for me, I use it as a scratch recording for violin until I record the real thing.

Ahh.. you(david) did mention about layering... when you layer the four cellos, did you use the same patch or different sound from different VSTs?

I mix different patches, different synths and even different takes. You can hear my stuff on the link in my signature.

The problem with many string arrangements: they are from a keyboard point of view. We have certan ways of doing things, certain patterns we use and certain keys. We hate flats and love sharps.

Think linear. Our downfall is many of us dont have great chordal knowledge, strings are all about lines. We have a huge dynamic range and notes fade in and out constantly, so I suggest riding the faders and making as many swells as you can.

In the symphony, we can tell who knows how to write arrangements for strings and who doesnt. The good ones know about bowings. Basically that has to do with swelling and articulations. A soft piece we start up bow, so that means we can sneak in without an attack. Again, the best way is to ride the faders or draw lots of envelopes. Strings are never at a seditary volume, its impossible. When we draw the bow it gets lighter at the tip so the sound is always dying away. When we go up bow it gets louder, even if we dont want it to. Its all due to weight, the bow is heavy at the bottom and light at the top.

Too many patches sustain the volume, we dont do that. We start louder with a lot of vibrato than back off and decrease vibrato. sometimes we use none. All those tricks help make a more convincing sound: hit the note then back off. Never ( rarely) sustain a chord.
 
I can't believe this. You guys are so good. I wish I have the talent like you all. This info is gold to me.

Dave, Thanks for the 'bowing'. What do you mean by 'We hate flats and love sharps'?

Halion, I used GPO in straight mode - lush all the way without changing the the feel to attack or something. The info gives me a new life of 'stringggg' :)


Thanks a zillion.
 
What do you mean by 'We hate flats and love sharps'?

Our instruments respond better in sharp keys, we can read sharps easier, etc.

The violin "open" strings are g d a e. If those notes have flats, we cant use open and cant play as fast. Generally, arrangers know about this. It wont be quite the same using machines but some of the samples will be geared for this.

We also play sharp. This isnt always good, but it shows our preference for sharps and brightness. When we play sharp it cuts through easily. I am NOT suggesting you "sharpen" the pitch! Just tellin ya how it works. :D

Sometimes its cool to mix it up:

Pizziccato= plucking
Tremelo-rapid bow strokes ( its an effect)
Spiccato- bouncing short bow
Marcato= literally means Hammer
Ponticello= this is playing on the bridge. Probably hard to find a patch but its a great effect and spooky

Chords- Sometimes we roll them or stagger them, we dont attack together. Same with pizziccato, we roll them sometimes like a guitar.

If something starts slow and soft, try using a no vibrato patch. I.E. No vibrato at the beginning then warm it up with the modulation wheel. If you have a nice sample, the mod wheel can be awesome if used sparingly.

One final but CRUCIAL point:

Most samples or synths will be WAY behind. They all have a slower attack so you hear the note sound later than it should. Here is what I do:

Record it as is, then slide the .wav back. In SONAR its easy, you just go to process/slide and slide it back by lets say 40 ticks or so. You can even visually see the attack on a .wav so just look at it and line it up visually, I assume all DAWs can do this somehow.
 
Most samples or synths will be WAY behind. They all have a slower attack so you hear the note sound later than it should. Here is what I do:

Record it as is, then slide the .wav back. In SONAR its easy, you just go to process/slide and slide it back by lets say 40 ticks or so. You can even visually see the attack on a .wav so just look at it and line it up visually, I assume all DAWs can do this somehow.

In Cubase, change the delay setting to few millisecond, I guess 40millisecs will be just nice.

I downloaded the Synful, got to try it tonight... :)
 
The slow thing is exactly what I meant with the legato pedal technique that GPO uses. If you hit the sustain pedal, the first slow part of the note is cut of and crossfaded into the next note, glueing the notes together. Only use the normal mode if you want a new bow stroke to start.
 
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