THD Hot Plate...???

[VESSEL2020]

Has anyone on here used one of these?

http://cgi.ebay.com/THD-Hot-Plate-1...865?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item35ad174061


I'd like to hear some opinions.
I'm not a guitarist,..But I've heard this is what my guitarist
would need for retaining the sweet spot sound at lower volumes,
when tryin' to add more volume.

Does it actually do what it says?

Tryin' to retain the crushingly heavy gain sound that we get
with our 5150, JSX, & M.B. Triple Recto, at lower volumes,...
at a much higher volume. Will this do the trick for a high gain guitar sound?

If anyone has any opinions,..I'd like to hear them.
Negative or Positive.

 

[stevieb]

No experience with the THD brand, but I love my attenuator. Got rid of all my distortion pedals (well, I kept the Ibenez Tube Screamer, but never use it any more. And NO, it's not for sale, don't ask.)

Read my review of the attenuator, it might help.

 

[Micter]

I have one. I use it every week. Don't expect to get more than 4db of attenuation without affecting the amp's tone. The more you knock the volume down the thinner the tome will get.

 

[Sonixx]

Don't expect to get more than 4db of attenuation without affecting the amp's tone. The more you knock the volume down the thinner the tome will get.

This^^^^

It won't be the panacea you're hoping for. It's a good tool but it has its limitations.

Maybe post a clip of your 5150 that's lacking.

What speakers are you recording?

 

[VESSEL2020]

This^^^^

It's won't be the panacea you're hoping for. It's a good tool but it has its limitations.

Maybe post a clip of your 5150 that's lacking.

What speakers are you recording?

It's only when cranked on 6 or 7, it does start to lose the thick gain sound we like to have almost 100% of the time. (what most people use for a "solo" type gain sound, only to boost on a solo part,..we use that sound all the time...our sound is saturated with gain)
I don't have any recordings at those levels, cuz we don't turn it up that loud, when recording. The only time we turn it up that loud, is when we play a place that doesn't have an in-house P.A. system with subs, etc. makin it possible to mic the cabs. So,..we end up startin' to lose that thick sound when the guitar gets turned up. With all the amps,..with the exception of the Boogie (that one does alright, on 6-7).
This is the reason, why I'm asking about the hot plate.
Would some type of mod be in order for the amps,..instead?
When we do record,..It is usually one of the top speakers (sm57) on the Mesa...and one of the bottoms on the 5150 cab (sm57). 4-12 cabs.
The JSX has an excellent line-out from the cab and head, that we record it's tracks with. We definitely are getting the sound we are lookin' for at the practice spot, 'cause we only need to keep the volume around 3 or so, on all the amps,..except for the JSX,..that one only needs to be on 2 - 2 1/2.
It's when we need to turn the volume up,..which is not very often,..but I'd like for our sound to retain itself everytime we play.
From everyone's comments so far,..it doesn't seem like it's (hot plate) gonna do much. Not worth puttin' $250.00 out anyway.

 

[DrewPeterson7]

I'd like to hear some opinions.
I'm not a guitarist,..But I've heard this is what my guitarist
would need for retaining the sweet spot sound at lower volumes,
when tryin' to add more volume.

I've had an 8 Ohm Hot Plate for, hmm... 3-4 years now? I've used it with a Mesa Nomad-45, a Rect-o-Verb 50, and a Rectoverb Roadster over that time.

Does it do what it says it does? Yes, mostly. But some of that is going to depend on the amp more than the Hot Plate, and where the "sweet spot" falls. The Nomad actually sounded pretty damned good at low bedroom volumes, and to be perfectly honest it didn't NEED the Hot Plate, so any improvement in the tone was pretty marginal. And the Roadster, while definitely a little more volume sensitive than the Nomad, also held its own pretty well at bedroom levels, so if I didn't already own it I probably wouldn't have bought it. It helps a little, but it's not a night-and-day improvement.

The Rect-O-Verb? Damned near unusable without the thing. For some reason the power amp REALLY colored the sound of that amp. At low volumes it was bright, spikey, and fizzy, and as the volume came up the power amp got seriously dark and smooth, and really radically filled out the sound. The problem is, when I say "as the volume came up," I mean the channel volume would be at 9-10 o'clock (sweet spot for leads, IMO) and the master would be pushing 1 o'clock, which even for a 50-watt Mesa falls somewhere between "Somebody call the fucking cops!" and "Good lord, somebody call a preacher, the Rapture is upon us!!!" Running the Hot Plate at -16db attenuation brought that down from somewhere past absurd to at least at a level where my neighbors probably wouldn't declare war.

Did it color the sound? Yes. Did it color the sound more negatively than the extra power tube saturation colored it positively? No. For that particular amp, it made a ton of sense. For my Roadster, it's less open-and-shut, but I kind of like how it takes a little bit of the edge off the high end for leads. For my Nomad, there was really no need.

I'd say see if you can get a shop to loan you one for the afternoon, or barring that bring your rig into their live amp room and try it out. I'd imagine it'll help the 5150 quite a bit, the Triple a bit, and the JSX a bit less so, but I have no first-hand experience with either.

Also, be reasonable about your expectations. It's not going to give you kickass power amp saturation and "amp at ten" tone at whisper-quiet volumes. That's not possible. What it CAN do, however, is give you the level of power amp compression and saturation you'd expect from a couple notches louder on your output knob than the volume you're actually hearing in the room, which sometimes can be a very good thing.

 

[ocnor]

It's only when cranked on 6 or 7, it does start to lose the thick gain sound we like to have almost 100% of the time. (what most people use for a "solo" type gain sound, only to boost on a solo part,..we use that sound all the time...our sound is saturated with gain)

If you want a thick solo type gain sound then trade your 5150 for a Carvin Legacy. It has the best lead tone of any amp that I've ever used. I was actually looking for a used 5150 when I found my Legacy. The distortion is killer and the clean channel is beautiful.

 

[DrewPeterson7]

The only time we turn it up that loud, is when we play a place that doesn't have an in-house P.A. system with subs, etc. makin it possible to mic the cabs. So,..we end up startin' to lose that thick sound when the guitar gets turned up. With all the amps,..with the exception of the Boogie (that one does alright, on 6-7).
This is the reason, why I'm asking about the hot plate.

Oh jeez, should have read this post first.

You're having the OPPOSITE problem the Hot Plate was intended to solve. You love your tone with the master volume at 2-3, but as the volume comes up, it turns to mush?

Remember that there are two "sources" of gain for a tube amp. Preamp distortion, which you're happy with, and power amp distortion. What's happening is that as you turn the amps up, the power amp is beginning to distort, and considering it sounds like you're already distorting the living shit out of your preamp, that's just turning your sound to mud. What you need to do is, when you're playing that loud, turn down the preamp distortion. Trust me - you're going to be getting all the compression and sustain back from the power amp at that kind of volume that you're losing on the pre.

The reason the Mesa holds together better at those volumes is twofold - one, that Mesas (especially the Rectos) have a tremendous amount of headroom anyway, and two, that the triple is running 150 watts as opposed to the 100 from your other amps, which gives it quite a bit more clean headroom.

EDIT - Also worth thinking about - if you're diming the preamp gain on a 5150, JSX, and a Rectifier to get the kind of gain structure you're after, well, you're probably using WAY too much gain. Admittedly I probably prefer a slightly clearer sound than you, but even when I'm after pretty heavy saturation I rarely have the preamp over 2 o'clock on my Roadster, and that's a relatively unsaturated amp compared to the two Peaveys you're also using. Your guitars would probably cut through the mix a little better if you rolled back some of the gain anyway.

 

[VESSEL2020]

You're having the OPPOSITE problem the Hot Plate was intended to solve. You love your tone with the master volume at 2-3, but as the volume comes up, it turns to mush?

EXACTLY!

Remember that there are two "sources" of gain for a tube amp. Preamp distortion, which you're happy with, and power amp distortion. What's happening is that as you turn the amps up, the power amp is beginning to distort, and considering it sounds like you're already distorting the living shit out of your preamp, that's just turning your sound to mud. What you need to do is, when you're playing that loud, turn down the preamp distortion. Trust me - you're going to be getting all the compression and sustain back from the power amp at that kind of volume that you're losing on the pre.

We've messed around with this several times,..but seem to lose "our sound".
I was told to do this awhile ago,..and I (we) listened,..but it definitely changed the saturated gain. It did have a much clearer, tighter sound,..but sucked out alot of the distortion. We do like to have the pre-amp gain at a high setting of at least 7-8, and the power amp setting around 3.
The JSX works best for this, because it has a built-in noise gate, that works very well. But when doing so, with the Mesa and 5150,..we loose saturation.
I am a drummer first and foremost,..but I do mess around with my guitarists tone, as I've done for the past 20 years of us jammin together.
We've even tried adding different varieties of dist. pedals to compensate for the lost saturation,..but it ended up being too muddy.

What about the box called the "suck knob"?
Has anyone heard of it?
Is this the same as a hot plate?
Would it do a better job?

you're probably using WAY too much gain.

This is not in our vocabulary!

 

[VESSEL2020]

If you want a thick solo type gain sound then trade your 5150 for a Carvin Legacy. It has the best lead tone of any amp that I've ever used. I was actually looking for a used 5150 when I found my Legacy. The distortion is killer and the clean channel is beautiful.

Thanx for the tip on the Carvin, Ocnor!

I will definitely have my guitarist play through one,..if it has the tone you are sayin it has. I don't rule out anything...and we are always lookin' to make our sound heavier.

Shit, He already has 3 heads, why not 4?

 

[DrewPeterson7]

We've messed around with this several times,..but seem to lose "our sound".
I was told to do this awhile ago,..and I (we) listened,..but it definitely changed the saturated gain. It did have a much clearer, tighter sound,..but sucked out alot of the distortion.

Isn't "clearer and tighter" a good thing, though

Try this, then - back off your preamp gain, and then run through a Tube Screamer between the amp and the guitar. Don't use it to "put back" saturation, so much as to just sort of pre-EQ the signal a bit. The Tube Screamer will tighten up the low end a little bit, which will help with your headroom issues a little when you turn up, since the low end is what begins to break up and fall apart on you first.

That said... really man, if you're running a JSX with the gain on 8 to get "your sound," unless you're playing like a stock telecaster with singlecoils or something, I think you're probably using an imprudent amount of gain, and that you might want to rethink "your sound" for something a little less over-saturated that will punch through the mix a lot better. If you're using THAT much gain, honestly you'll probably sound heavier if you turn down, provided your guitarist is any good.

EDIT - hell, if you're dead set on extreme saturation, maybe you should look at a couple high-wattage solid state amps. The "problem" you're running into is exactly what tube amps are designed to do.

 

[Sonixx]

OP, why do you think you're having difficulty getting your tones tracked?

 

[rayc]

I have a Tube Cube which is much cheaper than the Hotplate but I REALLY like it. My Marshall Superbass with both challens chained & both at maximum then into the TC & out to the speaker at ear safe veloume. GREAT sound.
As others have said there's MUCH more to recording distorted guitars than having a great distorted tone.
Cop the argument between Richards & Berry re amp settings for micing & recording in Hail hail RnR.
& there's a great sticky in the recording section about the processes and options too!

 

[VESSEL2020]

OP, why do you think you're having difficulty getting your tones tracked?

Not to sound like an idiot,..but the problem
isn't with recording. It's a problem with live sound.
Not so much as a problem,..but a preference.

Losing saturated gain at higher volumes.

We get excellent tones when recording.

 

[VESSEL2020]

Isn't "clearer and tighter" a good thing, though

Yes,..but not with our situation.
Our sound is really loose, thick, saturated, with alot of bottom end...and
a touch of delay.

Try this, then - back off your preamp gain, and then run through a Tube Screamer between the amp and the guitar. Don't use it to "put back" saturation, so much as to just sort of pre-EQ the signal a bit. The Tube Screamer will tighten up the low end a little bit, which will help with your headroom issues a little when you turn up, since the low end is what begins to break up and fall apart on you first.

Thanx for the tip

That said... really man, if you're running a JSX with the gain on 8 to get "your sound," unless you're playing like a stock telecaster with singlecoils or something, I think you're probably using an imprudent amount of gain, and that you might want to rethink "your sound" for something a little less over-saturated that will punch through the mix a lot better. If you're using THAT much gain, honestly you'll probably sound heavier if you turn down, provided your guitarist is any good.

Guitarist is good,..a very simple heavy..catchy, rhythmic, crunchy sound.
Power chords,..standard tuning E.
EMG 85 active pickup, in a Jackson Professional King V

EDIT - hell, if you're dead set on extreme saturation, maybe you should look at a couple high-wattage solid state amps. The "problem" you're running into is exactly what tube amps are designed to do.

Tried that. Nothing compares to the sound of all those tubes fired up.
I guess we'll just have to bring a P.A., a couple mids, and subs,...and mic the guitar sound at a lower volume. This is what I was tryin' to avoid.
Luggin' extra equipment around.

Thanks for everyones comments. Much appreciated.

 

[Sonixx]

Not to sound like an idiot,..but the problem
isn't with recording. It's a problem with live sound.
Not so much as a problem,..but a preference.

Losing saturated gain at higher volumes.

We get excellent tones when recording.

Sorry. Had to read the OP again.

What Speakers? Cab?

Impedance Head/Cab matched?

Are you using a speaker cable Head to Cabinet?

Back down the Bass and Resonance.

Using a OD like a OD-808 or TS-9.

 

[Micter]

Loosing saturation at higher volumes is almost impossible. As power tubes are pushed harder they will break up yielding a more saturated sound. all this doesn't sense at all when you take into consideration the physics of tube amps.

The only thing that my 2 watt brain can think of is the power tubes might be weak and in need of replacement.

 

[DrewPeterson7]

Loosing saturation at higher volumes is almost impossible. As power tubes are pushed harder they will break up yielding a more saturated sound. all this doesn't sense at all when you take into consideration the physics of tube amps.

I don't think the problem is he's losing saturation - I think the problem is he doesn't like power amp saturation.

 

[GONZO-X]

that's right, and if that's the case, typically only more power will help.

i think this is why certain mfg's have gone to 120 watts, versus the standard 100, for typical tube heads...
seems like a lot of watts, tho......


as far as attenuators go, i prefer the Weber Mass Lite.

but the idea with 'tight', is to have enough watts that you never totally saturate the transformer....
in fact....
if you're up to the experiment, i'd suggest taking your best recording setup, and thru the attenuator, output at line level into a high powered solid state PA amp, and drive your cabinets with that.

add a decent full band eq, and you should be able to dial in your recorded level rig, at just about any volume level.

 

[stevieb]

Not to sound like an idiot,..but the problem
isn't with recording. It's a problem with live sound.
Not so much as a problem,..but a preference.

Losing saturated gain at higher volumes.

We get excellent tones when recording.

So, use your amps at the settings that give you the tone you want, and mic them to the house PA. You will get 99% of the tone you like, and the sound man will become your friend. TRUST me, you WANT the sound man on your side- he has the power to make you sound terrific or horible, and there is no quicker way to piss him off than forcing him to contend with stupid-loud amps.

YOU will thank me in about 10-20 years, when you still have your hearing.