That's All I Got - What do you have?

BeagleFaceHenry

New member
I'm hoping that someone will not only mix this, but also save and share your EQ, Comp, etc. settings. I've been recording and mixing my band's tunes for years but I've never had the opportunity to see how someone else would tackle them. We record "live", and we're pretty rough around the edges, but we're passionate.
I feel like others might be interested too. We've all sat down and mixed something differently than someone else, but we rarely get to see what makes it different. Why did you do what you did?
Thanks in advance!
That's All I Got

If there's a problem with the dropbox link let me know and I'll fix it.
Sorry, the tracks aren't labeled:
1- Vocals
2- Harp (there may not be any harp on this tune)
3- Guitar
4- Bass
5- Kick
6- Snare
7- Overhead
8- Overhead
 

MrWrenchey

New member
Just seeing you posted this! I'll give it a shot on Tuesday/Wednesday and get back to you.

What DAW are you using? If it's Pro Tools, I can give you my entire session folder when I'm done, as well as the bounced mix (in case you don't have the plug-ins that I'm using) to check out.
 

BeagleFaceHenry

New member
Awesome! Thanks MrW!
I'm using Cakewalk. I assume cakewalk and Pro Tools won't play nicely together, unfortunately, but if there's anything I can do to make it easier on you, let me know.
Thanks again! I can't wait to see what you do!
-j
 

MrWrenchey

New member
My first question has to be where all the bleed is coming from? For some reason, your "snare" mic has more bleed than your overheads. By a significant amount. I have no clue how that's working like that. The harp and vocal mics are also almost 50% bleed and 50% direct source.

It's tough for me to get the snare or even the vocals to come through without introducing a ton of bleed, and that bleed is going to be EQ'd if I'm EQ'ing the vocals or the harp or snare at all as well, which is making most of the adjustments I do through EQ sound worse.

How was this all tracked?
 

dustinnr

New member
Agree with previous poster - the bleed is not helpful at all. The various tracks are very similar. I was able to separate them somewhat with radical EQ, but there's only so much that can be done. It's very hard to get the Harp track to feature the Harp. I could get the guitar out somewhat, though it loses its low-end, which might be better anyway, given how much low end is already in there. So, the EQ settings are, for each track, "radical emphasis on whatever that track is supposed to be". The compressor settings are basically "enough to level out a track somewhat".
I'm not a recording expert, so I'm not really sure how to improve the tracking, but I'm guessing someone else here knows.
 

Pinky

and The Brain...
For bleed some type of limiter/gate that allows you to adjust the exact db of the noise floor and amount of attack (for quick fading in/out) is the only easy way to go. If the bleed is too loud the primary instrument will tend to swell into and out of the mix too much and the bleed will cause a sudden jump in volume for whatever is bleeding, in which case the previously described strategies apply (EQ the bleed out of the track as much as possible, to highlight the primary instrument). Possibly a combination of both!
 
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BeagleFaceHenry

New member
This is all great stuff guys! Thanks! These are the challenges I've been facing and it sounds like we're taking the same approach.
We record "live" in a small room. We don't plan on always recording that way, but we love the freedom to hit record during practices without creating the sterile, isolated recording studio feeling.
I gave it another listen last night, it sounds like the snare and one of the overheads are swapped in my original list. And I believe this is when we were recording with unmatched Overheads (trying to capture room sound, we've moved on from that idea).
Although I was hoping to learn how to mix my problems away, I think instead my takeaway is that we need to adjust our recording style. This won't sit well with the boys, unfortunately.

Thanks guys for your thoughts! I'd love to hear more if anyone has more! I'm not sure how we'll proceed.
Can I hear your mixes? Can I see some of your radical EQing?
Thanks again!
-j
 

Pinky

and The Brain...
Although I was hoping to learn how to mix my problems away, I think instead my takeaway is that we need to adjust our recording style.

If you want to start another thread (not sure which section, maybe the "live" section) we could offer advice for getting the most out of what you have. Depending on inputs, mixer, and mics available, you might be able to rearrange things in such a way you won't need to worry about mixing later. I've done some decent sounding live basement/room mixes with some pretty ghetto stuff. lol

**edit - for some reason I thought there was a live section, but perhaps this would be appropriate:

https://homerecording.com/bbs/general-discussions/recording-techniques/

I didn't have time this week to offer a mix so don't have anything specific to offer along those lines.
 
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BeagleFaceHenry

New member
I have band practice on Thursday, I'll get some pictures and take that advice, Pinky. Recording Techniques might be a good choice too.
But in the meantime:
It's a small room and it gets loud.
PA: Yamaha 02R; QSC K12
Recording: Tascam DP24
Vocal: SM58
Harp: SM57 on small, overdriven amp
Guitar: Sennheiser 906
Bass: Direct from Ampeg SVT100
Drums: Low Budget CAD kit mics. I think we have a 57 on the snare now.
 

Pinky

and The Brain...
I'm thinking with what you have there shouldn't be a problem getting a decent recording.

Quick tips from a cursory look at gear listed... have the guitarist plugin directly or at least make sure the mic'd amps are quasi pointing away from each other, to reduce bleed between instruments. I realize this doesn't help them hear each other, but that's what proper monitoring is for. You don't have monitoring or you don't have bleed, take your pick.

What are you using to record the kick drum? Exactly how many mics are there on the kit and their positions?

The vocalist's mic position is critical too but those finer details should be worked out after pics/descriptions of the layout.
 

BeagleFaceHenry

New member
It's true, these are some details that will be addressed in more detail once I have pictures, but considering I'm on the clock at work and I'd much rather talk music and recording....
Mic positioning is going to be painful. We're pretty set in our positions due to spacial constraints, but I'm sure there's some wiggle room.
The kick is being miced with a CAD kick mic (low budget, entry level). I have a 57 on the snare (now, not in the recording), and 2 CAD overheads. We're trying to utilze the glyn johns drum mic method.

We just updated our PA from a crappy old Amp/passive speaker to a QSC K12 (just one). The K12 is much cleaner. I'm confident that will help a bit with the vocal bleed, as it doesn't create such a massive, muddy cloud of sound and we'll able to run it a little quieter.
We're also trying to pick up a pile of Owens Corning 703 to help. I'm just trying to find the best price (shipping is a bitch).
 
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MrWrenchey

New member
The biggest bleed for me was coming from the vocals. If you're going to do vocals for recording as opposed to practice, I suggest either not having them run through a PA and just have everyone follow without vocals, or OVERDUB the vocals after the fact.

Either way, you'd be doing it without people being able to hear the vocals, but the overdub option allows for much more flexibility when mixing down.
 

BeagleFaceHenry

New member
We're moving towards overdubbing vocals on serious recordings, but we're always trying to optimize our space. I know we could make a great recording if slow way down, but we're also hoping to have to ability to capture something random and wonderful. For example, last practice we had one of those rare moments when a warm-up jam erupts into a nearly completed tune. We rushed to record it before it augmented and we forgot it. We had no intention of that recording being a final product, but it would awesome if it could be. Know what I mean? It would be great if a random jam session could produce something keepable. It would be great to be able to capture random moments of creativity and inspiration, not only well prepared arrangements. I think that's on our list of dreams.
 

Pinky

and The Brain...
We're moving towards overdubbing vocals on serious recordings, but we're always trying to optimize our space. I know we could make a great recording if slow way down, but we're also hoping to have to ability to capture something random and wonderful. For example, last practice we had one of those rare moments when a warm-up jam erupts into a nearly completed tune. We rushed to record it before it augmented and we forgot it. We had no intention of that recording being a final product, but it would awesome if it could be. Know what I mean? It would be great if a random jam session could produce something keepable. It would be great to be able to capture random moments of creativity and inspiration, not only well prepared arrangements. I think that's on our list of dreams.

We did exactly this in the last actual band I was in. 3/4 of our songs were 'written' this way. The recordings were accomplished with less than you have and sound fine, for keepsakes. We intended to tighten things up and record them properly before the founding member moved away. It's rare to get a live studio recording that's acceptable by today's recording standards. Doable, yes. With the gear we're using? Unlikely. I would perhaps suggest not spending too much time focusing on the impossible and expect to actually track the songs once they're finished. Just use what you have to capture the sessions. It will take some of the pressure off the engineering side of things and simultaneously force the band to learn the songs well enough to record them.
 

Camazza

New member
Despite the obvious little issues with the recording, I had a shot at this anyway, just for fun. I tried to "gate" the harmonica and you can clearly tell the ambient noise difference when it's playing, but well, I didn't spend much time with this at all! I hope it's appreciated anyway :)

[MP3]https://www.dropbox.com/s/fe6ox1utacoqssh/That%27s%20All%20I%20Got%282%29.mp3?dl=1[/MP3]
 

andrushkiwt

New member
very cool song, had to give it a go. there's so much room on everything that it's difficult to automate anything because it's too apparent that something is dropping out. i still was able to automate the harmonica and vocal a little, and i think that helped separate things and get some clarity. would've been nice to have some more drum mics too. there was some clipping on the overheads, especially near the end. there's also a weird EQ thing happening with the final "that no one can touch". not sure what that was. couldn't fix it.

me: i ran it through a free console plug, Code Red, then compressed it all a touch, some EQ to remove 166 and 360 and a little top touch, then limiting. individually, the guitars were doubled with delay and eq changes, then panned hard. bass was dropped around 450hz and same for the kick, although the kick got a little touch up top around 4khz. both were compressed hard. OH's were panned hard and i adjusted levels so the cymbals hits weren't crazy in one ear. no reverb, there's already a ton of room on everything.

let me know what you think. i haven't listened anywhere but the HP's I did this on. thanks for sharing.

edit: sorry for my pic there. lol. i think it's my Studio One 2 (DAW) default thing. sorry
 

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