TAXI.com INDIEBIZ.com

[bdbdbuck]

Hey Guys,
Lighten up a bit. Overall I think my comments were generally positive. You guys jumped all over me. Not once did I slam David or his tactics or his business. Yes, I am smart enough to know that the "free lessons" are different from "membership", But it was an indication to me as to where YOUR interests lie. WI, after two years, you should be making your 100k by now...right?


bd

 

[Buffalo Bob]

"Sure it's not for everyone but there is no need to bad mouth something that may not be what you expected or what's "right" for you."


There is no "need" to spam these boards with this crap, either. This cretin keeps trolling around, hawking his magical exiler to unsuspecting marks, and then gets torqued when someone dissents. Now the dissenters are abused for having the temerity to state an opposing point of view.
This is a Home Recording board, not a friggin free advert space. To his credit, I don't see Laskow trolling these boards, which is a good thing for him. This is not "good press".


"WI, after two years, you should be making your 100k by now...right?"


You could probably fit all the musicians making $100K a year on a single tour bus!

 

[bdbdbuck]

Bob,
Yeah, that was actually intended to be a slam of sorts. On that same bus, the number of people that actually care about "helping" you with your career, wouldn't even fill up the back seat. The music buisiness is like any other business...where the importance of networking and personal relationships cannot be underestimated. For a FEE you too can enjoy the benefits of someone else's contacts....oh, what if your music sucks? For a FEE we will personally review your music and give you an honest review. If you make the cut, there is a chance that all you will need is some additional coaching...just so happens we have that "service" as well. Then when you have been properly coached, we will record for you a "professional" demo....you just sit back and feed us the money and we will turn you into a first rate songwriter.

Of course this is just a rant, and I am in no way putting Mr. Hooper in that category, simply because I don't know enough about him. Let THAT be understood.

There are also some legitimate companies out there that will listen to your music and judge it on it's merits and either accept it or turn it down. Listening to some of the music I hear on the radio, I wonder about that as well. The bottom line as I see it is there are no EASY ways to break down the barriers that exist in this business. It's hard work, and nobody is going to help you out of the goodness of their heart. Having a decent catalog will speak for itself, but it won't promote itself.

Just my daily rant.

bd

 

[David Hooper]

Dave
"What's in it for me? Seems like a pretty one-sided deal, doesn't it?"

It is what it is....an easy way for you to prove you are the real deal and not just a guy who spams people for a living.

You're looking for a handout.

I don't need to prove myself. Do a search on www.google.com or ask around Nashville.

 

[David Hooper]

Lighten up a bit. Overall I think my comments were generally positive. You guys jumped all over me. Not once did I slam David or his tactics or his business. Yes, I am smart enough to know that the "free lessons" are different from "membership", But it was an indication to me as to where YOUR interests lie.

I apologize if my post seemed like an attack. The reason I brought up the difference if because people confuse the email lessons with the site membership all the time. It wasn't a clarification for you; it was to make sure anybody who came in on this post and was unaware of the site would know the difference.

My interests? I absolutely want to help my clients. This is a job though. It's no different from the musicians on this board wanting to give a good show, but also wanting to be paid for that show.

 

[David Hooper]

There is no "need" to spam these boards with this crap, either. This cretin keeps trolling around, hawking his magical exiler to unsuspecting marks, and then gets torqued when someone dissents. Now the dissenters are abused for having the temerity to state an opposing point of view.

1. I didn't start this thread.

2. Quote me the post where I abused anybody.

3. You guys will never be satisfied with anything I do. If I respond to a question, you say I'm spamming.

If I don't post, you say I don't have the answer. In fact, you get pissed off when I don't post right away. Do a search for "indiebiz" on here and you'll see tons of posts like, "Paging David Hooper...Oh, I guess he ran away."

 

[David Hooper]

On that same bus, the number of people that actually care about "helping" you with your career, wouldn't even fill up the back seat. The music buisiness is like any other business...where the importance of networking and personal relationships cannot be underestimated. For a FEE you too can enjoy the benefits of someone else's contacts....oh, what if your music sucks? For a FEE we will personally review your music and give you an honest review. If you make the cut, there is a chance that all you will need is some additional coaching...just so happens we have that "service" as well. Then when you have been properly coached, we will record for you a "professional" demo....you just sit back and feed us the money and we will turn you into a first rate songwriter.

NOTE: This is not an attack. In fact, it is not specifically directed at any one person on this message board.

The music business is like any other business in that the bills have to be paid. Believe it or not, just the fact that you exist and have written a few songs doesn't do that.

If one of you guys would come up to me and say, "David, I've got a popular band, several albums sold, a kick ass show, and some great tunes. Would you help me get it to the next level," I would definitely think about working out something with you where the money for my services could be taken on the backend.

Unfortunately though, most of the trolls here don't have anything. They don't have a CD that has been tested, they don't have the live show down, and they really don't have anything.

Am I going to take a chance with my money on that? No.

Would you? No, you're not taking a chance on it either. That's why you want other people to invest their money.

My job is the promotion and marketing of independent artists. This is not some studio scam and we don't promise that you're going to be a star. What we promise is that we'll give you the skills to make more money making, performing, recording, and selling your music. How far you take that is largely up to you.

As far as sharing my contacts, I'm all for helping people out by taking things to A&R or others who can help them. You won't see that offered on my site though because it's not something I take money for. It's not smart to take money for shopping anything that comes with a check attached because people know that and don't pay attention when you come knocking.

There are also some legitimate companies out there that will listen to your music and judge it on it's merits and either accept it or turn it down. Listening to some of the music I hear on the radio, I wonder about that as well. The bottom line as I see it is there are no EASY ways to break down the barriers that exist in this business. It's hard work, and nobody is going to help you out of the goodness of their heart. Having a decent catalog will speak for itself, but it won't promote itself.

The bottom line is that if you prove that you have a market for your stuff, can sell records on your own, can pack shows on your own, and can make a profit on your own, people will break down your door wanting to take what you have and work with it on a bigger level. To major record companies, music sounds a lot better when it is profitable.

 

[pashop]

I actually like Dave …shoots from the hip and has balls of steel….not bad for a veggie
My issues with Indibiz are:
The way I was treated when I asked for a rebate or reduction in time after being on his site for 15 minutes.
Sending my CD in as per Dave’s recommendation and him loosing it
The content on the site being weak at best
Emails asked about direct issues were sent back very vague
The spamming he does on here. On live_audio.com or the rec pit he would have been tossed out in a heart beat . Advice is one thing but always posting with ad links and sending out PDF’s with ad links is advertising and if Dave was to purchase a banner ad on here I’m sure people wouldn’t mind as much.
Everyone has to make a living I don’t begrudge Dave for all his efforts. Who knows maybe these down and dirty sandbox fights will make Indibiz a better site.

 

[bdbdbuck]

David,
Regarding the last part of your post, that just reinforced my assumption that you are more performance oriented. I'm not saying that is a bad thing. And the one point that you raised earlier that we both can agree on is that anyone who is seeking help that has no intention of trying to help him or herself should not expect anything in return.

The whole point in my original post was to indicate MY position regarding whether or not to invest hard earned money in a service that would not serve to represent me in the way I would expect. That is why I take the time to investigate all of the options that are out there. In these days of e-commerce, seems the snakes are in every fissure. Most of the people on this BBS are interested in promoting their music in one way or another. Some are performers, some are not.

There are a few people on this board that I think SHOULD have a label looking at them. The mp3 clinic is full of good music. Admidittedly there are some that have a long way to go. The fact remains that All that post over there are actively trying, and at the very least should be commended.

I think I'm beginning to ramble endlessly. I'll shut up now.

bd

 

[Buffalo Bob]

"If I don't post, you say I don't have the answer. In fact, you get pissed off when I don't post right away. Do a search for "indiebiz" on here and you'll see tons of posts like, "Paging David Hooper...Oh, I guess he ran away."


Who the fuck do you think you are, troll? I was in the music business when you were just an impure thought. You, and your ilk, exist on the periphery of the business, and always will, like a remora who accompanies the shark to pick up discarded scraps of food. Are you a musician? An Agent? An engineer? A producer? No - you are all of them wrapped up in a $99 package.
You are a "dream merchant", and not a very good one. Any band with a killer live show and a CD would have NO NEED for your "services".
You are trolling for the kid in Nebraska with a dream, and taking advantage of that kid is despicable, beneath comtempt.
You're writing a new book on A&R? That's great! Who have you signed? To which label? You cite BMI and NSA - are they aware that you are using them for references? Maybe I'll just ask them myself. You don't mind, do you?

You didn't "start" this thread, but you have a nasty habit of trolling the Songwriting and Marketing forums for fresh meat, so it was just a matter of time before you smelled the blood in the water.



Go talk crazy somewhere else....we're all stocked up here.

 

[Myx62]

Quote-"Unfortunately though, most of the trolls here don't have anything. They don't have a CD that has been tested, they don't have the live show down, and they really don't have anything. "

I've been a muscian for many years. I agree with Bdbd that there is a lot of talent on the MP3 clinic. There are also some pros there in the music biz. What I dont get is why do so many in the music biz put down the musician that has spent most his hard earned cash on guitars, recording gear, etc and put many years into his talent. We are treated like troll, dogs huh? Most of us could care less about a record deal anyway. It would ruin our fun as musiscian having to deal with music biz pricks with absolutly no talent. Unless you consider a past career in selling used cars.....
If a guy wants to sell and market his stuff, he needs managment to wade thru all the bullshit while the musician spends his precious time making music.
Many in the music biz I know would agree that a lot of shit is out there on the radio and that real talent doesnt mean much anymore. Why? I do have the answer. When they came out with CD's they rerelesed all that classic rock and everybody eventually replaced their album collections again with CD's. The music industry didnt need to sign anybody anymore. So they looked to MTV for images. MTV created all the great(suckass) new music. Then they promoted the hell out of it. Nowdays, a million dollar record deal nets each band member about $7000 dollars. I could go on, but the bottom line is why should we pay someone like Dave when IUMA or Nowhere radio has so much more to offer and its free. You can pay for extras. Dave , have you been to the MP3 clinic? Check it out sometime. Many of us there play all the instuments, sing, record, mix and master, not to mention write the songs. Most do it for enjoyment. Its in our blood. I read something on your site that said if a musician is good, they will be found. Stop marketing to the troll wannabes and check out the real talent here.

How to make 100,000 dollars a year in the music biz? Heard the ol saying it takes money to make money. If I had say 100,000 dollars saved, I could probably figure out a way to make that a year with my music. Write anything on how to make money and you will find many suckers that will buy it. In the end its always the musician that gets screwed, not the man in the suit.
Just my 3 cents......
Myx

 

[WISongwriter]

Holy Chit, this pail of worms is huge. I've got no problem with people voicing their opinion, as long as they have no problem with me voicing mine. As long as it's an honest opinion and not an attack.

I knew the minute I started to post my favorable opinion about David and Indiebiz that someone would ask me about my $110K.
Of course I haven't made it, and I'm not holding him accountable either. But I have made more than I expected thanks to some advice I was given at Indiebiz.

As far as being a "dream merchant", that would make any boss promising a raise one too ("if you work hard inside of 3 months you'll be promoted and get a raise" you pay in sweat and hard work) or any advertiser promoting almost any product one too. Some products work some don't. It's freaking advertising. Tide may not clean your clothes as well as you like, while others swear by it and are happy with it. Does that make the people who use Tide stupid or naive? Or does that make the people who make Tide bad? I don't think so.

We've all got our own opinions. If you don't like something there is no need to mercilessly bash it to death. My God, whatever happened to I tried it but didn't like it because.....? Or I love it because.... Not "It sucked and the guy that made it or runs it is an "a-hole" etc

I'm rambling so I'll stop.

Ken

 

[David Hooper]

Regarding the last part of your post, that just reinforced my assumption that you are more performance oriented. I'm not saying that is a bad thing.

The reason I bring up playing live is because it's the easier and quickest way for bands to make money and get in front on hundreds of potential fans at a time. It makes things a lot easier if you play live.

 

[David Hooper]

Are you a musician? An Agent? An engineer? A producer? No - you are all of them wrapped up in a $99 package.

Actually I have a Bachelor of Music, so yes I am a musician.

Do I produce or engineer? On occasion, but my specialty is promotion and marketing. I don't try to do it all.

You're writing a new book on A&R? That's great! Who have you signed? To which label? You cite BMI and NSA - are they aware that you are using them for references? Maybe I'll just ask them myself. You don't mind, do you?

I'm writing a book that interviews A&R guys and talks about the process. It will be out shortly.

Yes, feel free to call BMI and NSAI up. I don't mind. That's why I posted the contact info and names.

Go talk crazy somewhere else....we're all stocked up here.

You're obviously not.

 

[David Hooper]

I've been a muscian for many years. I agree with Bdbd that there is a lot of talent on the MP3 clinic. There are also some pros there in the music biz. What I dont get is why do so many in the music biz put down the musician that has spent most his hard earned cash on guitars, recording gear, etc and put many years into his talent.

As I mentioned in the previous thread, I am also a musician. I went so far as to get a degree for music. I've done it all when it comes to playing, recording, performing, touring, etc. It's not like I don't know where you guys are coming from.

There is certainly a lot of musical talent here. That is not something that I have denied and I am definitely not putting anybody down.

The problem most musicians have is not musical though, it's on the business end. They can make great music all day long, as is being proven here, but when it comes to getting it out, the problems begin.

If a guy wants to sell and market his stuff, he needs managment to wade thru all the bullshit while the musician spends his precious time making music.

I disagree. A manager will help you, but you need to educate yourself about the business end as much as you can...at least if you want a long career.

Watch "Behind the Music" for some great stories on how uneducated musicians trusted their management.

Many in the music biz I know would agree that a lot of shit is out there on the radio and that real talent doesnt mean much anymore. Why? I do have the answer.

What is talent? To you it may be performing, or playing, or something else, but obviously somebody likes what is on the radio because it sells a ton of records.

Dave when IUMA or Nowhere radio has so much more to offer and its free. You can pay for extras. Dave , have you been to the MP3 clinic? Check it out sometime. Many of us there play all the instuments, sing, record, mix and master, not to mention write the songs. Most do it for enjoyment. Its in our blood. I read something on your site that said if a musician is good, they will be found. Stop marketing to the troll wannabes and check out the real talent here.

IUMA will host your stuff and do a great job of it. I send people there all the time.

Nowhere Radio? Same thing.

You're comparing apples and oranges when you talk about a hosting company and me though.

Yes, I'm aware of the talent here. My job is marketing though; I'm not an A&R guy...although they're very concerned with marketing as well.

How to make 100,000 dollars a year in the music biz? Heard the ol saying it takes money to make money. If I had say 100,000 dollars saved, I could probably figure out a way to make that a year with my music. Write anything on how to make money and you will find many suckers that will buy it. In the end its always the musician that gets screwed, not the man in the suit.

I can show you how to make $100,000/year without starting with that much. It's not easy, but it's definitely possible. Even if you never make that much money, you'll still be doing what you want for a living and isn't that worth more than the money?

Don't believe me. Read the book reviews.

 

[pumpkin]

David, you sound a decent man to me
But I found this article that is sort of distrubing and I thought maybe you could clarify it here

http://www.musicads.com/mcopinionforum/messages/60.html

Is it just someone who tried to damage your reputation or is it true?

Thank you

 

[Buffalo Bob]

"Actually I have a Bachelor of Music, so yes I am a musician."

Musicians play music for a living. You play musicians for a living.

"Do I produce or engineer? On occasion.."

Right.

"I can show you how to make $100,000/year without starting with that much. It's not easy, but it's definitely possible. Even if you never make that much money, you'll still be doing what you want for a living and isn't that worth more than the money?"

The check's in the mail, David.

 

[bdbdbuck]

Oh boy.....looks like ol pumpkin has picked up a few rocks.....what's that?.....what the hell is that?.....Could it be a snake? I was just reading in another thread.....Pumpkin....did you join Indebiz? Maybe Bob has been right all along. In just two threads (unless my eyes are lyin') Mr. Hooper lost one, but gained another. How long has this been going on?

bd

 

[pashop]

lol.....bob don't hold back ....get it off of your chest
next time im in Miami we should do lunch

Dave....offer still holds....talk is cheap

 

[pumpkin]

Hi bdbdbuck

"Pumpkin....did you join Indebiz? "

Not yet. I was just thinking about it when I came across that article. (Also, $99 is a bit too much for me now) I did a search because someone in this thread (don't remember who and I don't have time looking for it again) recommended David and asked us to do a search. I did and found this in the first search result page. I hope David can explain it. ...