K
khatru3
New member
Hi all, I'm considering a Tascam M-30 mixer for my Tascam 48. I'll be using the RCA inputs and outputs on the 48 and basically recording one track at a time. Any advice if this would be a suitable mixer?
sweetbeats
Reel deep thoughts...
As with my response to your other thread the M-30 is a very suitable option.
M-35 or M308 are also good options.
Is the M-30 local and how much are they asking for it?
You, in theory, have a budget of 449 bucks, yes? You should be able to find a vintage Tascam mixer local in very good condition for that amount...try to find something local and go for good condition over the specific model IMHO as any of the above will do...My personal fav is the M-300 series and the 308 would be a great match...look for a 308B to get onboard phantom power. BUT the M-30 is also a great mixer, has a good following here and will do the job nicely.
Good luck!
M-35 or M308 are also good options.
Is the M-30 local and how much are they asking for it?
You, in theory, have a budget of 449 bucks, yes? You should be able to find a vintage Tascam mixer local in very good condition for that amount...try to find something local and go for good condition over the specific model IMHO as any of the above will do...My personal fav is the M-300 series and the 308 would be a great match...look for a 308B to get onboard phantom power. BUT the M-30 is also a great mixer, has a good following here and will do the job nicely.
Good luck!
Blue Jinn
Rider of the ARPocalypse
I used a similar if older Teac 5 w/ a Tascam 38, same basic setup. I am not sure if there are aux sends on the 30. I wound up using the "echo send" and the "cue send" as effects sends on the model 5. Also, you could use the direct outs to effects and get a line mixer, and bring that back on the buss ins. Tascam, Fostex, etc all have various permutations that are fairly inexpensive. Tascam boards are great for their flexibility.
T
The Great Cobb
New member
m30
Youve got access sends on every channel as well as on each of the 4 busses. The manual shows you some preferred setups for both 4 and 8 track recording with effects.
I used an M30 for years with an 8 track reel and i really grew to like the mixer. Its different in a few ways, but thats because its very open and easy to come up with your own ways of patching things. The way its set up allows you to use it with a reel to reel with just as much ease as a portastudio in my opinion.
The only thing i ever wanted more out of it was more channels.
Youve got access sends on every channel as well as on each of the 4 busses. The manual shows you some preferred setups for both 4 and 8 track recording with effects.
I used an M30 for years with an 8 track reel and i really grew to like the mixer. Its different in a few ways, but thats because its very open and easy to come up with your own ways of patching things. The way its set up allows you to use it with a reel to reel with just as much ease as a portastudio in my opinion.
The only thing i ever wanted more out of it was more channels.
K
khatru3
New member
Hi and thanks for the info. I'm looking at the various mixers and may get an M-30 for now. I don't see an M308B for sale right now but I see that would be a great match for the 48. I grew up with the A3440 then unfortunately sold it and bought the Tascam 244 then on to the 488 and then on to AW1600. If you ask me I was actually stepping further and further back from sound quality. On August 15, 2009 I and a musician friend were bemoaning the coldness of the tracks when the light went on. He had also had an A3440 and then a Fostex E-16 back in the day. I'm now really looking forward to getting back to analog recording.
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The Great Cobb
New member
yea
Yeah i mix both digital and analog. To be honest i hate the idea of digital, but it can be made to work for you if you pay alot of attention to what your intended sound should be like. But, in the end, no matter how well i can disguise the 1s and 0s with trickery... they are still 1s and 0s. So i try to do a little of both. I have a hard time getting what i want without digital editing, but there are some things tape will always do better no matter what. One of those things is pitch variations. Im into changing the speed of things to get gimmick sounds, and tape does that really well because you are actually slowing the tape or speeding the tape physically, digital just computes those traits. So while it will work in digital, its not as good as when you do it with tape. And so on and so on.
Ive never found working with the CPU to be difficult, but it can feel a little soulless compared to touching real knobs and feeling the top of your mixer and its warm etc. You really gotta work to make digital effects sound similar to analog effects, and in the end, they will still just be digital.
I think i came full circle from hating digital and never wanting one shred of it in my setup, having all my analog stuff break, switching to digital and being as creative as i could to make it work for me, then realizing i had lost something by switching, then realizing i could not give up certain elements of analog, and i couldnt give up certain elements of digital. I had to die-hard both ways to come to the middle ground and be happy there.
Good luck man, i hope your recordings sound how you want them to.
Yeah i mix both digital and analog. To be honest i hate the idea of digital, but it can be made to work for you if you pay alot of attention to what your intended sound should be like. But, in the end, no matter how well i can disguise the 1s and 0s with trickery... they are still 1s and 0s. So i try to do a little of both. I have a hard time getting what i want without digital editing, but there are some things tape will always do better no matter what. One of those things is pitch variations. Im into changing the speed of things to get gimmick sounds, and tape does that really well because you are actually slowing the tape or speeding the tape physically, digital just computes those traits. So while it will work in digital, its not as good as when you do it with tape. And so on and so on.
Ive never found working with the CPU to be difficult, but it can feel a little soulless compared to touching real knobs and feeling the top of your mixer and its warm etc. You really gotta work to make digital effects sound similar to analog effects, and in the end, they will still just be digital.
I think i came full circle from hating digital and never wanting one shred of it in my setup, having all my analog stuff break, switching to digital and being as creative as i could to make it work for me, then realizing i had lost something by switching, then realizing i could not give up certain elements of analog, and i couldnt give up certain elements of digital. I had to die-hard both ways to come to the middle ground and be happy there.
Good luck man, i hope your recordings sound how you want them to.
K
khatru3
New member
Thanks. I can see that an analog/digital situation would be the way to go. Right now I'm happy just to be getting back to analog recording. In answer to Sweetbeats I was going to bid on an M-30 but the auction ended early. There are two M-208's and I'm looking out for an M-308b. Thanks all! This forum is great!
C
clevodrummer
Tascammer
echo sends on M-35
I have an M-35 I use for my set-up, but not really taking full advantage. I have a 424mkIII and a Korg D-888 digital. I also mix down to a teac A2300sx or my Masterlink.
I have been trying to find a good R2R 8 track to really get into the M-35,but with my setup I usually end up using my Yamaha MG16 mixer.
I do use the M-35 normally for direct outs on drums and also for mix downs. I have the original manual and one day I really want to learn this beautiful classic mixer for tracking, and mixing and mixdown.
I noticed though it has echos sends buss, but I didn't realize this feature actually provides echo? Is that the case?
If so, I can at least experiment and definitely omit the 1s and 0s which sound like crap on my digital echo....
going to have to open the manual back up, but like noted, it kind of sits,looks good, and is waiting for its 8 track counterpart...
any other thoughts of how I can incorporate the M-35 into my setup...I did build a very nice rolling rack for it.
I have an M-35 I use for my set-up, but not really taking full advantage. I have a 424mkIII and a Korg D-888 digital. I also mix down to a teac A2300sx or my Masterlink.
I have been trying to find a good R2R 8 track to really get into the M-35,but with my setup I usually end up using my Yamaha MG16 mixer.
I do use the M-35 normally for direct outs on drums and also for mix downs. I have the original manual and one day I really want to learn this beautiful classic mixer for tracking, and mixing and mixdown.
I noticed though it has echos sends buss, but I didn't realize this feature actually provides echo? Is that the case?
If so, I can at least experiment and definitely omit the 1s and 0s which sound like crap on my digital echo....
going to have to open the manual back up, but like noted, it kind of sits,looks good, and is waiting for its 8 track counterpart...
any other thoughts of how I can incorporate the M-35 into my setup...I did build a very nice rolling rack for it.
R
RRuskin
Rick Ruskin
The 30 has an 8X2 aux system that is pot-by-pot pre/post/tape switchable. IMHO, this feature makes it more flexible than the older Model 5.
sweetbeats
Reel deep thoughts...
Clevo, the "ECHO" send is just labeled that way because that's typically what it got used for. It could just as well be labeled as "EFFECT". There is no onboard effect on the M-35.
So, what all are you wanting to tie together with the M-35? All the units you mentioned? The D-888, 424 A2300 and Masterlink? Because all of those devices could be connected to the M-35 simultaneously and you could ues the control surface of the M-35 to choose what goes where...what are you waiting for?
So, what all are you wanting to tie together with the M-35? All the units you mentioned? The D-888, 424 A2300 and Masterlink? Because all of those devices could be connected to the M-35 simultaneously and you could ues the control surface of the M-35 to choose what goes where...what are you waiting for?
DuddyGuy
No good fer nothin!
while we're on a mixer topic here, are the M-512 and M-50 the smallest 8 bus boards out of the old tascams?, i think I'm going to try to set-up an 8 track rig I can do remote locations with and I don't want the hassle of disconnecting (or trying to transport) my 520, but I don't think the 50 or 512 would be ideal for transport purposes either. I may end up going with a smaller 3 series but at a loss of bus's
sweetbeats
Reel deep thoughts...
Yep.
Around that era you also had the Teac Model 15 and the Tascam M-16, both make the M-50/512 look like tots...if you did go the route of the M-50/512 beware that the M-50 only has two balanced outs...It does not have the 8-channel balance amp section like your M-520, but the M-512 does, so the M-512 is a better option of those two for location recording as you may have longer distance runs on cue feeds and such and that balance amp section is such a nice feature of the M-500 boards. The M-512 though, as you noted, is not a dainty package. Its still big and heavy: almost 84lbs., almost 32"W, nearly 10"H, and almost 32"D.
You may want to consider a 2516. Much more plastic but still rugged and in this case that would make it lighter. It is just over 44lbs and 30.5"W, about 6.5"H and just over 25"D. Relatively compact 16 x 8 x 2 board but still very full-featured...no balanced outs at all on the 2516 though.
I don't know how many input channels you'd need but the M-308 is such a powerhouse blend of live and recording features and so ruggedly built. Just over 46lbs in weight, 23"W, under 9"H and just over 27"D. Not svelte, but I was able to carry it under my arm and though it only has 4 busses it DOES have direct outs on each channel and each buss and the L-R main outs are available (and switcheable) -10dBv or +4dBu and balanced or unbalanced and the group routing allows separate bussing to each of those 6 busses. There is more than meets the eye to the M-300 boards...
Around that era you also had the Teac Model 15 and the Tascam M-16, both make the M-50/512 look like tots...if you did go the route of the M-50/512 beware that the M-50 only has two balanced outs...It does not have the 8-channel balance amp section like your M-520, but the M-512 does, so the M-512 is a better option of those two for location recording as you may have longer distance runs on cue feeds and such and that balance amp section is such a nice feature of the M-500 boards. The M-512 though, as you noted, is not a dainty package. Its still big and heavy: almost 84lbs., almost 32"W, nearly 10"H, and almost 32"D.
You may want to consider a 2516. Much more plastic but still rugged and in this case that would make it lighter. It is just over 44lbs and 30.5"W, about 6.5"H and just over 25"D. Relatively compact 16 x 8 x 2 board but still very full-featured...no balanced outs at all on the 2516 though.
I don't know how many input channels you'd need but the M-308 is such a powerhouse blend of live and recording features and so ruggedly built. Just over 46lbs in weight, 23"W, under 9"H and just over 27"D. Not svelte, but I was able to carry it under my arm and though it only has 4 busses it DOES have direct outs on each channel and each buss and the L-R main outs are available (and switcheable) -10dBv or +4dBu and balanced or unbalanced and the group routing allows separate bussing to each of those 6 busses. There is more than meets the eye to the M-300 boards...
DuddyGuy
No good fer nothin!
I was looking at one of those 2516's but for some reason I look at it and don't think I could ever love it.... like you said more plastic, and I just feel that the sound might also come out more plasticy. I've never used one so that is a totally uninformed opinion, and I definitely want balanced outs.
Unfortunately I don't know how many channels I'm going to need either
I would like to err on the side of caution though and go for more channels then I have tracks. I actually just called about a 312 for 100 bucks, and wouldn't you know, it's the same guy that I bought the 48 from... "Greg, why didn't you tell me you had a board for sale too? I would have had you bring that with the 48"
Looks like I may end up having to take a pretty lengthy drive to this guys house anyways. At least I could get the remote, reels, tape, and manuals for the 48 if I do decide to go for it.
How does the 312 compare in size to a 512? It's so difficult to tell in most pictures, hard to get a sense of perspective. It looks to be considerable narrower.
sweetbeats
Reel deep thoughts...
Its a bit over 57lbs and same dimensions as the M-308 but almost 28.5"W.
The M-312 is a killer 4-buss board...all the features of the M308 but 4 more strips and a full-blown talkback section as well as two dedicated aux sends in the monitor section switcheable pre/post (can be used for independent cue feeds on tape returns or on buss outs or as two post fader effects sends or mix and match) and you still have 2 auxes on the strip (one switcheable as a direct cue feed for the tape returns and one switcheable pre/post) AND a fixed post fader effects send.
Is it the 'B' model? That adds a couple differences in circuitry and phantom power switchable in groups of two channels.
Either way, 'B' or non 'B' $100 is a GREAT deal on an M-312. If I were you I'd snap that up. at nearly 60lbs. you'll want two people to move it for location recording unless you get a road case and cart for it, but the M-300's pick up all the live sound capabilities/niceties somewhat lacking on the M-500 boards while still retaining wonderful recording board features. They are a great dual-purpose board...independent trims for mic and line ins...inserts on all channels AND the groups AND the main and mono outs...direct outs...100mm faders throughout with separate faders for groups, main and mono outs...full-blown monitor section...really a sweet board. If you can deal with the 4-buss architecture you will not be disappointed. You could easily mix direct outs and subgroups for your 8 track simultaneous recording if you like and you've still got lots of auxes for effects AND cue feeds and the mono out to drive the house mix plus even if you've used up all 4 groups you STILL have independent bussing to main buss...this is probably the biggest crippling factor for live sound work with an M-500.
The M-312 is a killer 4-buss board...all the features of the M308 but 4 more strips and a full-blown talkback section as well as two dedicated aux sends in the monitor section switcheable pre/post (can be used for independent cue feeds on tape returns or on buss outs or as two post fader effects sends or mix and match) and you still have 2 auxes on the strip (one switcheable as a direct cue feed for the tape returns and one switcheable pre/post) AND a fixed post fader effects send.
Is it the 'B' model? That adds a couple differences in circuitry and phantom power switchable in groups of two channels.
Either way, 'B' or non 'B' $100 is a GREAT deal on an M-312. If I were you I'd snap that up. at nearly 60lbs. you'll want two people to move it for location recording unless you get a road case and cart for it, but the M-300's pick up all the live sound capabilities/niceties somewhat lacking on the M-500 boards while still retaining wonderful recording board features. They are a great dual-purpose board...independent trims for mic and line ins...inserts on all channels AND the groups AND the main and mono outs...direct outs...100mm faders throughout with separate faders for groups, main and mono outs...full-blown monitor section...really a sweet board. If you can deal with the 4-buss architecture you will not be disappointed. You could easily mix direct outs and subgroups for your 8 track simultaneous recording if you like and you've still got lots of auxes for effects AND cue feeds and the mono out to drive the house mix plus even if you've used up all 4 groups you STILL have independent bussing to main buss...this is probably the biggest crippling factor for live sound work with an M-500.
DuddyGuy
No good fer nothin!
Ah yes thanks, the dimensions and weight seem to be within a range I could live with.
Picture this if you will, when I bought the 520 someone on the street was having a party and my driveway was full so I had to park about 200 feet away from the house. I carried that monster the whole way! By myself! I almost died!
I believe it is indeed a b model I, there are switches next to the balanced inputs that I can see in the pictures, so in my mind I'm assuming b.
Mixing busses and direct outs, was definitely my plan if I end up with a 4 bus machine.
I also think I can talk him down a bit too, as I was able to get him to knock 30 bucks off the 48. So I wouldn't be surprised if it could be had for 75 or 80.
That's interesting about the independent bussing to the main, I never really thought about the limitations I would encounter on a 5 series for live work ( I don't know why I didn't). Seems like a 3 might be the way to go even with less busses.
Picture this if you will, when I bought the 520 someone on the street was having a party and my driveway was full so I had to park about 200 feet away from the house. I carried that monster the whole way! By myself! I almost died!
I believe it is indeed a b model I, there are switches next to the balanced inputs that I can see in the pictures, so in my mind I'm assuming b.
Mixing busses and direct outs, was definitely my plan if I end up with a 4 bus machine.
I also think I can talk him down a bit too, as I was able to get him to knock 30 bucks off the 48. So I wouldn't be surprised if it could be had for 75 or 80.
That's interesting about the independent bussing to the main, I never really thought about the limitations I would encounter on a 5 series for live work ( I don't know why I didn't). Seems like a 3 might be the way to go even with less busses.
sweetbeats
Reel deep thoughts...
Threw me for a loop there with your reference to "5 series" and "3 series" since there were Teac 5 and 3 series mixers...
Yes, the phantom switches are below each pair of mic inputs which would make it a 'B'
Cool.
Hey, $100 is awesome, all the better if you can talk him down at all. $100 for an M-312B is...AWESOME!
Yeah, the lack of an independent main buss on the 500 series definitely gears it toward recording work, and I was also hackled by the fact that there isn't a master stereo sum control for the monitor mixer. Both relatively minor things if using the board for recording, but it can get a little hairy when trying to use it as a dual-purpose board and is definitely something the Tascam haters bring up when discussing the M-500 mixers. The STEREO A/B masters are monitor sum level controls but the issue for me came when I was monitoring more than the MON source in the MONITOR SELECT switchrack...like say you are monitoring the MONitor mixer along with a stereo source on the SPARE jacks...no level control for the SPARE jacks and no you've either got to turn down the output levels on the SPARE source or turn down each monitor channel to get a balanced mix...if the SPARE source doesn't have output level controls now you are forced to turn down each open monitor channel and IF you are monitoring a 16 track deck...oi. Yes, that is maybe an isolated situation but there are a number of scenarios I can think of (and encountered) where a monitor sum level control would have been nice, and it would have been easy to add it. Small point to whine about considering the rest of the M-500 features and performance. The M-300 mixers have a monitor sum level control.
BTW, that's nuts...carrying an M-520 by yourself that distance...105lbs. and it ain't petite.
Yes, the phantom switches are below each pair of mic inputs which would make it a 'B'
Cool.
Hey, $100 is awesome, all the better if you can talk him down at all. $100 for an M-312B is...AWESOME!
Yeah, the lack of an independent main buss on the 500 series definitely gears it toward recording work, and I was also hackled by the fact that there isn't a master stereo sum control for the monitor mixer. Both relatively minor things if using the board for recording, but it can get a little hairy when trying to use it as a dual-purpose board and is definitely something the Tascam haters bring up when discussing the M-500 mixers. The STEREO A/B masters are monitor sum level controls but the issue for me came when I was monitoring more than the MON source in the MONITOR SELECT switchrack...like say you are monitoring the MONitor mixer along with a stereo source on the SPARE jacks...no level control for the SPARE jacks and no you've either got to turn down the output levels on the SPARE source or turn down each monitor channel to get a balanced mix...if the SPARE source doesn't have output level controls now you are forced to turn down each open monitor channel and IF you are monitoring a 16 track deck...oi. Yes, that is maybe an isolated situation but there are a number of scenarios I can think of (and encountered) where a monitor sum level control would have been nice, and it would have been easy to add it. Small point to whine about considering the rest of the M-500 features and performance. The M-300 mixers have a monitor sum level control.
BTW, that's nuts...carrying an M-520 by yourself that distance...105lbs. and it ain't petite.
DuddyGuy
No good fer nothin!
heh sorry to get lazy with my 3's and my 5's
and yes I've actually run into that issue while monitoring the 2 TR's and AUX 1 + 2 sends, fortunately in that case I was able to just select the 2 TR as the input for the channels turn them on and send to AUX 3 + 4, and monitor those as well, but I could definitely see it being an issue in the case of the SPARE as you have no other control besides the master. It does still strike me as odd there being no monitor sum control, but like you said, isolated situation and the board more then makes up for the issue in other ways.
As to carrying it, the weight wasn't the big issue it was the size and the balance of the thing that almost killed me. I deal with a lifting at work but everything I have to lift there is very ergonomic. Definitely not some thing I ever want to do again.
and yes I've actually run into that issue while monitoring the 2 TR's and AUX 1 + 2 sends, fortunately in that case I was able to just select the 2 TR as the input for the channels turn them on and send to AUX 3 + 4, and monitor those as well, but I could definitely see it being an issue in the case of the SPARE as you have no other control besides the master. It does still strike me as odd there being no monitor sum control, but like you said, isolated situation and the board more then makes up for the issue in other ways.
As to carrying it, the weight wasn't the big issue it was the size and the balance of the thing that almost killed me. I deal with a lifting at work but everything I have to lift there is very ergonomic. Definitely not some thing I ever want to do again.
C
clevodrummer
Tascammer
M-35 setup (sweetbeats)
Sweetbeats,
I have done that before when mixing, routing everything through the M-35...it was a total gas but i ran low on patch cords...but I do a lot of drum tracking so I need to move everything within hand reach.....Iwill post a pic of the rolling rack I built, and I am thinking about the ultimate monster rack which has every piece of gear mentioned plus outboards all on one monster...
It would look like a robotic work of art...gonna get to work on it...you got me thinking for sure,
thanks
Sweetbeats,
I have done that before when mixing, routing everything through the M-35...it was a total gas but i ran low on patch cords...but I do a lot of drum tracking so I need to move everything within hand reach.....Iwill post a pic of the rolling rack I built, and I am thinking about the ultimate monster rack which has every piece of gear mentioned plus outboards all on one monster...
It would look like a robotic work of art...gonna get to work on it...you got me thinking for sure,
thanks
sweetbeats
Reel deep thoughts...
Ahh.
I see, and I can relate now.
So what you are going to build is, like, a gihugicrazy Portastudio...yeah...do it...watch out guys.
I'm not making fun. Hope it doesn't sound that way.
We like the size and tactile nature of our analog gear, yes? But since we are often the artist and engineer we do have to get creative.
Would love to see a pic of the unit you made for the M-35, and keep us posted on the 'robot'.
I'm going to rack some mic pre's and a basic 8 x 2 mixing device in my Ampex MM-1000 for the initial testing of the transport and record/repro functions, so at that point it'll be a portastudio...granted its 3 1/2 feet wide and 5 feet tall...500~600lbs...BUT...its on wheels. Portable..right?
I see, and I can relate now.
So what you are going to build is, like, a gihugicrazy Portastudio...yeah...do it...watch out guys.
I'm not making fun. Hope it doesn't sound that way.
We like the size and tactile nature of our analog gear, yes? But since we are often the artist and engineer we do have to get creative.
Would love to see a pic of the unit you made for the M-35, and keep us posted on the 'robot'.
I'm going to rack some mic pre's and a basic 8 x 2 mixing device in my Ampex MM-1000 for the initial testing of the transport and record/repro functions, so at that point it'll be a portastudio...granted its 3 1/2 feet wide and 5 feet tall...500~600lbs...BUT...its on wheels. Portable..right?
C
clevodrummer
Tascammer
Monsters gonna get even bigger soon!!
Hey all, maybe I can get some needed advice....tomorrow I am checking out a 388...Im selling my Korg D-888, because it just aint no damn fun compared to tape....used it for a year, and its cool as it has 8 outs, but its junk compared to the 388.
anyway, i am going to post a pic of the heads and the overall unit and hopefully if anyone sees something I dont I would appreciate it.... I know I should really look for an 8 track reel to reel alone, but maybe down the road...As I have the M-35 for a R2R 8 track....
Hey sweetbeats, I will also post pic of the rolling rack I use...Trash picked it of course but its perfect..
thanks all...
clev
Hey all, maybe I can get some needed advice....tomorrow I am checking out a 388...Im selling my Korg D-888, because it just aint no damn fun compared to tape....used it for a year, and its cool as it has 8 outs, but its junk compared to the 388.
anyway, i am going to post a pic of the heads and the overall unit and hopefully if anyone sees something I dont I would appreciate it.... I know I should really look for an 8 track reel to reel alone, but maybe down the road...As I have the M-35 for a R2R 8 track....
Hey sweetbeats, I will also post pic of the rolling rack I use...Trash picked it of course but its perfect..
thanks all...
clev