Suggestions for first condensor mics? (rec. quartet & Piano)

[Jedman]

Hey guys -- I really appreciate the help so far. I've gotten tons of information here... I read the sticky mic FAQ thread, but I don't have a single condensor mic yet, so I'm not sure where to start. Any help there?
I need to record 4 people singing in a quartet, (I was thinking of using the XY stereo mic pattern) and then the Piano as well.
Could I use my Beta 57's for the Piano? What 2 mics could I get (not looking to spend a ton here) for recording the vocals in group setting like this?

Thanks again,
Jed

 

[Son of Mixerman]

I don't think your going to be happy if you do the 57's on the piano or the quartet. If your looking to do some condensors for vocals and piano, I would suggest at least 3 mics, 2 small diaphragm condensors like the MXL603S and a large diaphragm condensor like the MXLV67 or Studio Projects B1.
Total cost under $300

Ive never tried X-Y using dynamics before so I can't comment. At the very least you could use some ECM8000 small diaphragm mics the in room and play with position until the piano and quartet balance out. That about $80 total.

Its all about position.

SoMm

 

[Jedman]

Thanks SOMm. I was thinking about recording both the piano and the quartet at the same time -- should I do them seperate?

Would I want 2 mics for the piano and 2 mics for the vocals, or just 3 total like you suggested earlier?

And lastly -- I guess i got the wrong mics for what I wanted to do...I have Beta 58s and 57s that I bought off Ebay -- are they good for anything, or should I resell them?
Thanks again,
Jed

 

[Son of Mixerman]

Personally I would do the MXL 603's on the piano in either X-Y or spaced pair configuration and MXLV67 for the Quartet with them in a semi circle around the mic. The 57 and the 58 work awesome for vocals in live situations, studio vocals for soloist type singers. But the condensors will pick more of the ambience in the room than the dynamics will.
It never hurts to experiment with what you have to see if they achieve what your looking for. Im constantly playing with mic and postitions to see what works best within the constraints I have.

SoMm

 

[Jedman]

Well, thank you sir! Now I have something to start with, at least. About the studio projects B1 mic -- is that the same as a Behringer B1 mic? I didn't know...but for some reason I could only find the Behringer one on MF.
Thanks,
Jed

 

[DJL]

Well, thank you sir! Now I have something to start with, at least. About the studio projects B1 mic -- is that the same as a Behringer B1 mic? I didn't know...but for some reason I could only find the Behringer one on MF.
Thanks,
Jed

The Studio Projects B1 and Behringer B1 are two different mic's made buy two different companies.

 

[Son of Mixerman]

The Studio Projects stuff won't be at MF. If your mail odering stuff you could try http://www.fullcompass.com Its where I get alot of the prosumer level and pro level things that I need. Pricing is pretty decent too.
The B1 is a better mic if its the Sutio Projects one.

SoMm

 

[Sklathill]

Spaced stereo with ECM8000s is surprisingly effective. Did this for a small jazz combo and it worked great. Other things that I've tried are X-Y CAD GXL1200s, which was also quite good. Other guys will probably suggest the MXL603s and MC-012s for this, and that'd work fine too...

Right now, I'm hoping to buy myself a pair of Studio Projects B3s so I can do blumlein. Two B3s will put you right aronud 300...you should check that out...

 

[deepwater]

The best mic I've found is the Audix VX-10. This mic blows SP and others away.

 

[Jedman]

Sweet this is cool info -- right now I'm checking prices on all those mics that were suggested.

So how many total mics should I use (and therefore how many tracks similtaneously) to get the quartet and the piano all together? Would 4 be enough?

Thanks again,
Jed

 

[Jack Hammer]

Don't many pros use Shoeps mics for that type of music? I don't know the models numbers but I suppose they sould be looked into. Frankly, I believe in buying the top quality mics simply becuse the retain their value and, you never need to upgrade. Unfortunately, this is not always practical.

 

[DJL]

Sweet this is cool info -- right now I'm checking prices on all those mics that were suggested.

So how many total mics should I use (and therefore how many tracks similtaneously) to get the quartet and the piano all together? Would 4 be enough?

Thanks again,
Jed

I think what "Son of Mixerman" ment was, 3 mic's, and 3 tracks. The two MXL603S's X/Yed on the piano using 2 tracks panned left and right. And the MXLV67G for the vocals using 1 track. Three mic's, and three tracks. Try recording it similtaneously, if that don't work, record the piano first in stereo on two tracks and then over dub the vocals on another track.

 

[Son of Mixerman]

I think what "Son of Mixerman" ment was, 3 mic's, and 3 tracks. The two MXL603S's X/Yed on the piano using 2 tracks panned left and right. And the MXLV67G for the vocals using 1 track. Three mic's, and three tracks. Try recording it similtaneously, if that don't work, record the piano first in stereo on two tracks and then over dub the vocals on another track.

Yup...Im just the dummy and DJL is the ventriliquist

SoMm

 

[Jedman]

Ok, that makes sense to me now. I just have one more dumb question -- if I record the piano stereo, and vocals only mono, won't the piano drown out the vocals? Or does mono/stereo have nothing to do with that, and only volume of each track is a concern?
Well, one more - how far away from the singers should I place the mic to start with?
Thanks,
Jed

 

[DJL]

"Ok, that makes sense to me now. I just have one more dumb question -- if I record the piano stereo, and vocals only mono, won't the piano drown out the vocals?"

No, the vocals are recorded to a separate track.

"Or does mono/stereo have nothing to do with that"

It has nothing to do with that.

"and only volume of each track is a concern?"

The room, mic, placement, preamp, level, and etc are all a concern when recording basic tracks.

"Well, one more - how far away from the singers should I place the mic to start with?"

Place the mic where it picks up all the vocalist and then move it to where it sounds best.

 

[Jedman]

DJL - thanks. I guess most of that was common sense but I'm just learning here. Well, guess it's time for me to shut up for a while and get to practicing once all the gear arrives!
Thanks to everyone.
Jed

 

[Michael Jones]

What type of piano are you recording?

Here's a short recording of a Grand Piano I did with a pair of ecm8000's:
http://artists2.iuma.com/site-bin/streammp3.m3u?286662

Now, the ecm8000's are NOT my first choice on piano, but, I think as you can hear, careful placement will yeild fairly acceptable results.

If the file doesn't stream for you, you can D/L it here:
http://artists2.iuma.com/IUMA/Bands/Michael_Jones/index-2.html
it's called ecm8000.

Compare the ecm8000's to a pair of Shure SM81's:
http://artists2.iuma.com/site-bin/streammp3.m3u?239910
To my ear, the SM81's sound remarkable smoother.

But, you know, the ecm8000 is 40 bucks, and the SM81 is around $325.

Both recordings were done using the same pre-amp, and both were set up as a spaced pair.

 

[bgavin]

How about a first-condensor mic for voice, that I can continue to use as my skills improve?

 

[malcolm123]

How about a first-condensor mic for voice, that I can continue to use as my skills improve?

Either a B1 or a V67g would do. I think it depends on your voice and what you are trying to do with the mix in regards to which one. I would get both, under $200


Malcolm

 

[bgavin]

Searching through the back threads, I keep seeing the AT4040 coming up time and again.