Suggest a complete newbie package

  • Thread starter Thread starter SergeantNoob
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I would NOT go with an SM58. It's specifically designed to be a live vocal mic in noisy environments and is far from ideal in the studio. If you want a single dynamic the SM57 is a better choice. However, from the OP's range of requirements, I think a single large diaphragm condenser would be better. Possibly add an SM57 later to mic an electric guitar cabinet though the LDC even sounds good on this.

Of the OP's short list above, the NT1A would strike me as the best compromise, starter mic. It sound good on an awful lot of different sources.
 
Is the NT1-a generally a good one? What are the main differences and why would I prefer a dynamic like a sm57 to a condenser one? If so, what are some mics generally thought of as very good at the same price point, about 200 bucks i guess. Same goes for interface, about 200 bucks?
 
Get good quality everywhere in the chain now and avoid expensive process of gradual upgrades.

Here is a concrete suggestion I wish I would have had as a newbie:

used Oktava MK319 mic ($110) > Emu1616m PCIe interface ($400) > Reaper DAW ($60)

Use the preamps in the Emu - they are nice, and so is the AD/DA conversion.

mic cable $25
mic stand $30

monitoring:
Sennheiser HD280Pro headphones ($99) for now
KRK RP6 speakers ($400) later

Gets you in the game with decent quality for ~$1100.
 
If they still have any Tascam 800's left for $99 I would snatch one of those up ASAP - it's got good pre's and 8 discreet tracks. If I had to buy an interface today I would buy the Tascam US 1800 - it's the best bang for the buck.

As far as mic's a good condenser and a SM57 should handle most of your needs. I started with an MXL 2010 and I still have it, it's a good condenser for me although it doesn't seem to be too popular - it is a little bright, but it works well for my voice and it's pretty cheap. There are several decent entry level condensers in the $100 - $150 range. The mic's you listed are all decent mic's.

If you are going to be mixing you will need monitors - KRK makes decent entry level monitors, the KRK 5's are about $300 a pair I think - you will also want some headphones - I use cheap Sony studio headphones, but I don't use them to mix (except maybe to check stereo field position)
 
And as much as I loathe Behringer, I have to admit that their 2031A Truth powered monitors compare favorably with my much more exensive KRK V8s.
 
Alright, I guess I have a better idea now of the recording process, though I would like to get specific recommendations though. How about starting off with the mic? I've heard of the shure sm57, Studio projects B1, Studio projects C1, Audio-technika At2020/2035. Now these are all very attainable mics, and I was wondering if I can get some comments, and if there are any ones that are better. If they are along the same price point at least. Thanks!
 
SergeantNoob said:
Alright, I guess I have a better idea now of the recording process, though I would like to get specific recommendations though. How about starting off with the mic? I've heard of the shure sm57, Studio projects B1, Studio projects C1, Audio-technika At2020/2035. Now these are all very attainable mics, and I was wondering if I can get some comments, and if there are any ones that are better. If they are along the same price point at least. Thanks!
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I've heard great stuff about the B1. A great little workhorse.
Some said the AT2020 is a little bright, but I don't know for sure on that.
The SM57 is not really oriented to vocals as much as they are towards instruments, amps, and the like.

My choice of those would be:
SM57 > Amp
Studio Projects B1 > Vocals

But thats just my input. Eventually someone else will chip in with some more info for ya. :D
 
Recommended starter package.

Tascam US 1800. USB interface with 16 in and 4 out. $238.00 and includes Cubase LE5. Get a used SM58 for @ $50.00 and a Behringer B1 (condenser) for around $80.00. I use the B1 for overheads and acoustic guitar in my studio...(durbinaudio) in winter garden and it sounds great!! (I have a large choice of mics with several that are worth well over $2,000, so I don't have to use the B1's, I like to use them!)

You can find that price for the Tascam on ebay.

So you have a complete, hassle free system with 8 mic pre's, 6 lines in, 2 Sp/dif I/O, 4 lines out, headphone out, NO latency cue mix, excellent and I mean excellent software, & 2 great mics, all for under $400.00.

Studio Projects C1 is an Excellent choice! 200.00 delivered! SP C3 is even better if you can fit it in the budget.
 
"So you have a complete, hassle free system with 8 mic pre's, 6 lines in, 2 Sp/dif I/O, 4 lines out, headphone out, NO latency cue mix, excellent and I mean excellent software."

I'm sorry but you lost me with pre's. Care to explain what those features mean? Is it a good idea to get something with that many inputs? Wouldn't that be overkill? I've heard great things about the Studio projects C1, C3 too. Any idea on the difference? And how would they perform relative to an at2020, at2035, mxl 770, 990 and other comaparable models?
 
Okay, mic pre amps....

The electrical output of a microphone is very, very low. Compared to the "line level" output of things like a keyboard or a CD player, microphones are something like 40 to 60 dB quieter. Therefore, to bring them up to a level that things like mixers and interfaces can handle, the first thing the microphone goes through is a "mic pre amp". The brings the "mic level" signal up to "line level" and, importantly, does it without adding more noise or distortion to the signal--i.e. despite how common they are, they're quite an impressive bit of kit.

On interfaces (such as the Tascam that was being discussed) the mic pre amps are built into the interface. Usually (but not always) if you see an XLR input for a microphone, it implies that it will go through a mic pre amp.

Most interfaces have a mix of mic level (i.e. with pre amp) and line level inputs (i.e. no pre amp). This is because it's pretty common to want to record things like keyboards and electric guitars (instrument level which is different again--but I won't go into that now!). This is normal and all you need to make sure is that you have an appropriate number of each type of input.

So...basically that was a long winded way of saying "don't worry about it".

As for the mics, I've owned a couple of Studio Projects mics (a B3 and a C1). I really liked them at the time--they were among the first inexpensive large diaphragm condensers to offer very acceptable quality. However, in recent years I think they've been a bit over taken by some newer models. I'm now a big fan of many of the offerings from sE electronics--the 2200A is a marvellous mic that I frequently use in preference to things like a Neumann TLM104 which is 3 or 4 times the price. That's my own personal take (based on the things I record) but those might be worth a listen.

To my ear, I prefer the C1 to the AT2020 (but don't know the 2035). I prefer both those to the MXL990 which always sound a bit woolly and lacking in detail to me--I've sometimes used an MXL 990 on drum overheads or screechy violins to get rid of the HF detail-- (and, again, I've never used an MXL770 in anger). But, depending on your local prices, suggest a listen to some sE mics.

Hope this helps.
 
Since you own both mics, I was wondering if you can enlighten me on the differences between the b series and c series sound wise? Also, what are high/low cut filters? What are practical situations wherein I would need different polar patterns on my mic? For instance, I imagine figure eight would be useful when 2 guitarists, or maybe a vocalist play on each side?
Also, any more suggestions on the interface? That amount of mic inputs is overkill for me i think, there I was thinking an m-audio fast track pro or tascam us144mkII would suffice.
 
Well, first thing I should say is that my B3 and C1 are the original designs...Studio Projects upgraded them both in 2006/7. The published specs didn't change but whether there was any difference in the sound I can't say.

They're pretty similar sounding--the C1 perhaps has a bit more "air" in its sound but there's not a lot in it. Both manage to have a good amount of detail without sounding harsh. They were certainly workhorses for me in the earlier part of the last decade. The one downside of the mics I have is the shock mounts which seemed to transmit a fair bit of sound from the mic stand if it was bumped or rubbed--not sure if they changed that in the upgrade--I hope so!

Lo/hi cut filters can be useful on mics to cut out unwanted sounds...rumble transmitted through the floor and stand for example. The Low cut can also help with vocals if you're working close to the mic and getting a lot of proximity effect (the tendency of cardioid mics to exaggerate low frequencies up close to the capsule.

I've used figure of 8 mics for things like a vocal duet when the singers like to face each other (though I've also used two cardioids back to back to get some isolation between the tracks). They're also useful if you want to play with exotic stereo techniques in the future. The other thing Figure 8 is good for is the amount of rejection you get off axis (i.e. from the side).

Omni pattern can be very nice and natural sounding when you're recording in a nice sounding room--but, if I'm honest, in my domestic situation, I use cardioid about 98% of the time! Going out on a limb, from what you've said about recording being an add-on to your interest in music rather than a hobby in itself, you might be wise to get the best cardioid you can and not worry about the frills...but that's only a guess on my part.

As for interfaces, the main reason people were suggesting the big Tascam is that there are some super deals out there now with multi input boxes selling for less than some stereo interfaces (I think there's a model change coming up). That makes them pretty attractive for the price but, if you don't need all the inputs, something simpler should be fine. I've used the Fast Track pro with very good results but I've not tried the US 144. I've used a US 122 (don't know how similar that is) and it was okay though I liked the M Audio a bit better.
 
Alright. Can't seem to find the 2200a in my area, and it is quite a bit expensive anyways, seeing that i need a whole package. The B1 or the C1 would suffice, seeing that is generally a very decent mic in most experienced people's opinions. The interface would likely be decided based on prices on my local tom lee or long and mcquade store. I've seen the m-audio fast track pro with pro tools mp for about 220, 300 for the tascam 1800 with the cubase le, some with ableton live. Any opinions on the software? I mostly play guitar and vocals, so a basic backing band would be to nice lol. Willing to learn, but I don't want something that I am gonna give up on real quick.
 
The included software included with interfaces is almost always a "lite" (i.e. stripped down) version of something. The intent is to get you to start using the interface so, rather than start from scratch again, you plonk down sizeable money to get the full version of the same thing.

If it was me, I'd get the free trial version of Reaper and make the effort to learn it...if you get on with it then it's only $60 to buy the paid for version (was less than Protools or Cubase). I'm an Audition user myself (my needs are a bit different than most musicians) but Reaper impressed me when I had a play--and there's nothing else like it for the money.
 
SergeantNoob said:
Also, any more suggestions on the interface? That amount of mic inputs is overkill for me i think, there I was thinking an m-audio fast track pro or tascam us144mkII would suffice.
Click to expand...

I started with 4, upgraded to 8, upgraded to 16 all within 6 months. Like I said earlier, if you can still find the Tascam 800 (was selling for $100) that would be the best deal - those other interfaces you mentioned aren't going to do anything more for you than the 800 or the 1800 - all you need are inputs, pre-amps and multitrack capabilities. If you ever have a couple people over and want to record two people playing guitar and singing that is 4 inputs used right there. Add a bass player and a drummer... well anyway - you have a better idea what you will be using - personally I have 4 mic's hooked up all the time and a stereo out keyboard - I don't need all my inputs right now, but it's nice to know they are there if I want to use them - plus my ASR-10 sampler has a break out box which gives me 5 stereo out's - so I can sequence all my instruments and route them to discreet tracks - that's 10 inputs right there.

I use Cubase LE 4 which came with the Alesis Multimix 16 USB2.0 - It works great for me, most songs I do have about 10-16 tracks in the end, no problems - and there are a ton of great plug-ins available (many free) - but this is true for any DAW

Almost all DAW's have the same learning curve, and I haven't noticed any major difference between the ones I have used (eg Reaper, Cubase, a couple other ones I can't remember the names of...)

you can always download a free trial of Reaper and play with it
 
You can't go wrong with Avid's Pro Tools and a MBox. Pro Tools is the industry standard, and other than the slight learning curve, does everything you could possibly want to do. You can find them as cheap as $100 on ebay. If you go with the MBox 2, you'll get the same thing as the MBox 3, without the price tag.
 
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