Sub-mixer Live Use

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nate_dennis

nate_dennis

Well-known member
I've got a live sound question for you all.

For two weeks I tried using a sub-mixer to add a few extra mic inputs for our set-up at church. I was using phonic PowerPod 820 as the sub into a Phonic Powerpod 740. Each time I was only using channels on the 820, panned hard left and right (so as to utilize the stereo outs) into two different channels on the 740. I'm using the 820 to sub into the 740 because the 740 has more power.

When I do this I can only have the main outs up just "a hair" on the sub, the channel levels up about mid on the 740 before getting feedback. At first I thought it was positioning; so I moved us back a few feet from our speakers. This didn't help. I know some of the outputs on the 820 don't run through the amp, so I tried changing my outputs, this didn't help.

What can I do? Thank you so much in advance.
 
This sounds like a mismatched input and output problem.

Which outputs are you using on the 820, and which inputs on the 740. You need to organise it so that you are getting live level output on the 820, and line level input on the 740.
 
Please don't tell me you are putting the amplified signal from the 820 (where you connect the speakers to) into a line input on the 740? you are lucky the input did not fry if that's the case.

Alan.
 
witzendoz said:
Please don't tell me you are putting the amplified signal from the 820 (where you connect the speakers to) into a line input on the 740? you are lucky the input did not fry if that's the case.
Click to expand...

It's what it sounded like to me!
 
Ouch! Lets hope that it survived. Those Phonic units are pretty durable though.

What can I do? Thank you so much in advance. Nate you'll have to purchase a larger formatted console. If your church is expanding so should your sound support.
The only other thing I can think of is a smaller unpowered console and come line out into the phonic, and come to think of it isn't there a preamp out on the phonic? you should come out of that then into the other phonic.
 
Only advise I can add is to contact Phonic- as you have bought TWO of their products, you should get some decent support on this. Assuming either is still under warranty (at least time-wise- if you send a powered signal into a line-level input, any damage probably is not covered) you should not have to pay for whatever advise they might give. Perhaps they can recommend a board to replace both, and you might even get lucky and they offer you some trade-in value on one or both of the boards you currently own. Hey, it could happen...

And if you meet those requirements but don't get the support you need, return their crap if you still can and buy something else. Why am I suggesting their stuff is crap? I am not, unless they won't support it- then it's crap, regardless of HOW nice it is otherwise. With companies like Fender and Peavey, who now make much of their stuff in China but STILL provide excellent support (I know this first-hand) on all their products, there is no excuse for any company not doing it.

The only exception I can imagine to that would be a company's business model being, basically, "We sell out stuff as cheaply as we can, and we are sure to let you know we offer ONLY THE MINIMUM LEVEL OF FREE SUPPORT. If you need more, be prepared to pay for it, as we have not "charged" you for it, up-front." If you do not like that policy, we would prefer you buy from someone else."

Okay, mini-rant over.:o
 
I'm not up to speed on these products but they don't look compatable for your purposes. I couldn't see if either mixer has effect or AUX outputs as these could be used as line level outs... in extreme need you could of course use them separately ie 1 mixer and 1 speaker left and 1 mixer 1 speaker right - not the kind of stereo you had in mind huh?
Think you will heve to look at an unpowered mixer these are very cheap on ebay and should work a treak.
all the best
 
you should be able to get a line level feed from the record out on the 820 and feed it into line inputs in theory. the record out appears to have its own level control so that may work
 
This is a classic case of "Just because the connector fits doesn't mean it goes there". Nate, don't connect a speaker level output to a line level input. Find a line level output on the submixer to connect it with the main mixer. If you need anything different from the submix in monitors you'll have to use up more inputs on the main mixer. Pretty soon it will just make more sense to get one mixer that serves your needs.
 
one guy said:
you should be able to get a line level feed from the record out on the 820 and feed it into line inputs in theory. the record out appears to have its own level control so that may work
Click to expand...
That's what I was thinking. I know not to put the speaker level into line level, though I may have inadvertently. I was also thinking (shince I was really just using the sub for some extra mic pres, not really as true sub mixer) that I could use the channel inserts into the line level of the other. We try something next week.

bouldersoundguy said:
This is a classic case of "Just because the connector fits doesn't mean it goes there". Nate, don't connect a speaker level output to a line level input. Find a line level output on the submixer to connect it with the main mixer. .... Pretty soon it will just make more sense to get one mixer that serves your needs.
Click to expand...
I know I know I know. :o I would love to get ONE better board. But I purchased the smaller board out of pocket, partly for my use, and partly for church use. We're a smaller group and probably can't swing a new board. I need to just get into the manual and find the right outs I guess. I thought I had them, but I guess I was wrong. Thanks guys.
 
THis is what the manual says about the outputs I was using.

"Main L and R Outputs
These two ports will output the final stereo unbalanced line level
signal sent from the main mixing bus. The primary purpose of
these jacks is to send the main output to external devices, which
may include power amplifiers (and in-turn, a pair of speakers),
other mixers, as well as a wide range of other possible signal
processors (Equalizers, Crossovers, etcetera)"

Did I do something wrong? I think I may also try using the Alt 3/4 outputs. I dunno. Thanks again.
 
On the 820 try to keep things set so the main meter doesn't spend too much time over 0dB. Connect it to one of the stereo inputs of the 740. Use the channel level on the 740 to balance the submix to the rest of the mix with the 820's meter showing about 0dB. If the knob on the 740 is at the low end of its travel, that's okay. You can use the master fader on the 820 to fine tune the submix level during the show. The stereo mix on the 820 will end up mono on the 740 so don't bother panning anything, and you could even skip one channel from the submixer.
 
If I recall, the 820 has an "Amp Select" switch which can route the amplifier to the main L/R jack outs. Make sure you haven't routed the amp to the jack outs.

Failing that, since it's unbalance anyway, make up an adaptor and use the 2 track record phono outs to feed into the master mixer, thereby removing any chance of the amp out being sent to a line in.

Bob
 
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