Studio projects B1

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Just one thing that kinda has me scratching my head about the color dot thing is - If true that they just classify a specific range of sensitivity & there is no more than a 0.05db difference between any mics within a given color class (which is very close tolerance), it stands to reason there would be no more than 0.15db variance between any mics across all color classes & would seem to me to be close enough to negate the need to group them into ranges for closer matching at all.

Anyway, I e-mailed Alan night before last asking to specify the order of sensitivity rating among the color dot's but haven't received a reply yet (wouldn't expect one till Monday or Tuesday if at all) & following the reasoning (or lack there of) in my previous paragraph it would seem to be irrelevant anyway.

I must say Alan has been quite promptly responsive, helpful & up front answering all the e-mail questions I've sent him pertaining to this product. He should likely be considering me a pest by now.
I plan to order a pair of B1's next week.
 
Retro said:
Alan is not posting here anymore. He got tired of getting harrassed everytime he made a post.
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LOL...really? Well, I know at least one Louisianan who is patting himself on the back right now.

knowdoubt said:
Just one thing that kinda has me scratching my head about the color dot thing is - If true that they just classify a specific range of sensitivity & there is no more than a 0.05db difference between any mics within a given color class (which is very close tolerance), it stands to reason there would be no more than 0.15db variance between any mics across all color classes & would seem to me to be close enough to negate the need to group them into ranges for closer matching at all.
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Yeah, 0.15 dB seems negligible, but that assumes that the three tolerance ranges are contiguous. That's another reason I'm thinking the different colors might represent different electronics. Then you might well end up with mics that have a few dB's of difference with different [internal] preamp implementations, but very close when comparing mics with the same implementation.
 
Dolemite said:

Yeah, 0.15 dB seems negligible, but that assumes that the three tolerance ranges are contiguous. That's another reason I'm thinking the different colors might represent different electronics. Then you might well end up with mics that have a few dB's of difference with different [internal] preamp implementations, but very close when comparing mics with the same implementation.
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The following is taken from a post by Alan earlier in this thread.

This 3 micron capsule is different than our 6 micron so we shoot every capsule with a B&K, then code them. So if you need a matched pair, the color dots need to be the same color.

According to that it's related to capsule tolerances. If so, the 3 tolerance ranges would pretty much have to be contigeous, otherwise a lot of good capsules (& $$$) would go to waste that fell in between the ranges. I understand what you're saying though. Another possibility is that Alan made a mistake or typo when he quoted me a tolorance value of 0.05db within a color range & perhaps it should have been more like 0.5db or 0.15db or something like that.
 
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Originally posted by Retro
Alan is not posting here anymore. He got tired of getting harrassed everytime he made a post.
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QUOTE;.........."LOL...really? Well, I know at least one Louisianan who is patting himself on the back right now."

Dolemite, don't tell me you missed all the fun of the last week or so in here, or did you just miss the reason behind it:)

There may be a very few people who for reasons of their own, feel that this BBS is better of without Alan, unfortunately they also raised the ire of Harvey over their behaviour. From what Harvey said, I don't know that we will see him he much from now on.

:cool:
 
I emailed Alan about the color codes this past week as well. According to the reply he gave me, there can be as much as a 4db difference in sensitivity between capsules, thus the reason for the different color codes. He did give me an example as to what colors were what sensitivity, but I'm not sure that it's actual data...seemed more like just an example to show how the sensitivity between capsules were different.
 
"What was the color dot on the package of the one that was slightly more robust please? If you can remember which box each came in"

They are both green dots.

When I did my testing, I was trying to be really, really critical even tho my methods were very loose. I was relying on repeated attempts with slight variances in technique, and my ears. Like I said, NOT very technical...at all. I am actually very happy with how closely they're matched. Especially considering that I threw the dice and just ordered a random pair and considering the amount I paid for them.

Liking a mic's character is as subjective as just about anything. I happen to like the characteristics of the B1.

Not the opinion of a seasoned pro
More likely the words of your average joe
The B1 does well on certain voices
A bargain among our many mic choices
 
ausrock said:
Dolemite, don't tell me you missed all the fun of the last week or so in here, or did you just miss the reason behind it:)
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Hah, yeah I guess finals week interfered with my participation in forum politics. ;)

There may be a very few people who for reasons of their own, feel that this BBS is better of without Alan, unfortunately they also raised the ire of Harvey over their behaviour. From what Harvey said, I don't know that we will see him he much from now on.

:cool:
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That's really quite a loss. Hopefully the morons won't drive away the few resident experts we have left.

I don't want to lessen the blame placed on those who felt they had to harass Alan at every opportunity, but I think this situation might have been avoided if we'd had an active moderator who would have said:

To Alan: "The following constitutes spamming [insert definition], so don't do it."

To Gidge, et al: "When a certain post is in question, notify the moderator who will decide if it fits the established definition and take appropriate action or non-action. Do not needlessly harass."

I think that would have gone a long way towards avoiding some of those ridiculous shit fights, but who knows? Maybe people are even dumber than I think...


knowdoubt said:
According to that it's related to capsule tolerances. If so, the 3 tolerance ranges would pretty much have to be contigeous, otherwise a lot of good capsules (& $$$) would go to waste that fell in between the ranges. I understand what you're saying though. Another possibility is that Alan made a mistake or typo when he quoted me a tolorance value of 0.05db within a color range & perhaps it should have been more like 0.5db or 0.15db or something like that.
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LooneyTunez said:
I emailed Alan about the color codes this past week as well. According to the reply he gave me, there can be as much as a 4db difference in sensitivity between capsules, thus the reason for the different color codes. He did give me an example as to what colors were what sensitivity, but I'm not sure that it's actual data...seemed more like just an example to show how the sensitivity between capsules were different.
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OK, I stand corrected, it must be the capsules. I didn't realize there could be that much variance in sensitivity in the capsule itself. Having 4 dB difference sure says "crap QC" at the capsule plant to me...but at least Alan & co. are taking the time to measure output level (at a certain frequency), separating capsules and coding mics, because I'm sure there are other manufacturers who aren't doing this at all. It still makes you wonder how they can maintain such tight variances of 0.05 dB between capsules with 4 dB difference.

By the way, I've basically been ingrained with the idea that cheap Chinese condenser mics = high end peakyness/harshness. Early reports are that the B1's are fairly neutral, almost dark sounding in comparison to other inexpensive mics. I'm wondering if this is due to the capsule or the electronics. Also, I've noticed that all the B series mics use a 3 micron capsule, unlike the standard 6 micron in most similar mics...dammit, where's Alan when you need questions answered? ;)
 
Dolemite said:
OK, I stand corrected, it must be the capsules. I didn't realize there could be that much variance in sensitivity in the capsule itself. Having 4 dB difference sure says "crap QC" at the capsule plant to me...but at least Alan & co. are taking the time to measure output level (at a certain frequency), separating capsules and coding mics, because I'm sure there are other manufacturers who aren't doing this at all.
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Well, Neumann guarantees their mics to be within +/- 2dB of their published curves. That means that one mic may be + 2dB above the curve, while a second mic may be - 2dB below from the curve, giving you a possible variation between any two mics of.....








....4dB difference.

"Crap QC"???

With Guitar Center's Oktava MK012s, they can vary from unit to unit by more than 12dB.
 
I'm guessing that a 3 micron capsule compared to a 6 micron capsule in general would yield greater variance from capsule to capsule & that it's a bit of a manufacturing challenge which should be commended. Can anyone confirm or discount that... Harvey? In any case I think the color dot coding is a fantastic idea. Consider how many people are willing to pay extra for Octava 012's that have supposedly been matched. I also suspect Alan may be a little reluctant to specify which colors are hottest as it may prompt everyone to start requesting 1 color over the rest which could leave the others just sitting on the shelf or in the warehouse. I can except that & really don't think it's worth worrying about.

Another thing I'm guessing is that the 3 micron capsule would yield a more extended freq response over a 6 micron capsule in general, allowing it to be flatter over a wider range with extended high & low freq response without the characteristic exaggerated mid high boost of most of these other 1" 6 micron capsules. Can anyone confirm or discount that assumption... Harvey...anyone? That assumption is what caught my interest in this mic in the 1st place. If true, it could turn out to be one of the best LD condenser mics for drum overheads & general instrument recording, especially mid to far field, at any price. Alan indicated to me that pretty much fit the description of the response of the B1 & that is what I'm in the market for right now. How about you guy's/gal's with B1's already... would you say that fit's the description of their tonal response?
 
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