Studio construction 101

[troutstudio]

Hi all. I am making an open plan room out of the double garage attached to my house. I have attached a picture of the wall which adjoins the lounge. I'm guessing I need to fill all the gaps and then move on to framing. However, there is no ceiling - should I do the walls or the ceiling first? For the ceiling I think I will need metal channel. But for the walls (which have no joists) I am hoping to attempt to put the sheeting up in a minimal, but floating way. Haven't figured out what I can do there but putting up metal framing sounds expensive. Has anyone else started with a brick wall? Thanks.

 

[witzendoz]

Really need a better set of pics. I don't quite understand what you are saying about the ceiling? Better pic of the ceiling and where it meets the walls?

The question about the brick wall, I built a studio years ago where we had a single brick wall, what I did was to build a stud wall in front of the brick, only fixed to the brick by light weight steel brackets (just for extra support) I made the wall out of particle board 18mm thick and then a layer of plasterboard (the sound resistive type) the void was filled with fibreglass sheets fitted up to the particle board and an air gap between the fibreglass and brick. This wall was very soundproof. However if the ceiling does not have good construction you are wasting your time.

Doors & window information?

Alan.

 

[troutstudio]

Really need a better set of pics. I don't quite understand what you are saying about the ceiling? Better pic of the ceiling and where it meets the walls?

The question about the brick wall, I built a studio years ago where we had a single brick wall, what I did was to build a stud wall in front of the brick, only fixed to the brick by light weight steel brackets (just for extra support) I made the wall out of particle board 18mm thick and then a layer of plasterboard (the sound resistive type) the void was filled with fibreglass sheets fitted up to the particle board and an air gap between the fibreglass and brick. This wall was very soundproof. However if the ceiling does not have good construction you are wasting your time.

Doors & window information?

Alan.

Thanks a lot Alan. I am starting from scratch. I have done this before but had help with the stud and track. I do want the ceiling to be as good as possible. There's only one window and I am fine with losing it; or if it's possible, putting a sheet of double glass in I suppose. The back door is just a door. The front door is a Tilt-a-Door and I had planned on sealing it off with plastic/expanding foam/wall with insulation. In the 3rd picture, you can see how the ceiling meets the wall - there's only a joist at the top of the wall - nothing at the floor, which is bare concrete. The main areas of sound leakage at the moment are the doors, windows and ceiling but it's a pretty solid building.

 

[witzendoz]

The amount of sound proofing is exponential to the amount of dollars you spend. In other words how soundproof you want to make it means more dollars spent. If the garage is away from other buildings by a distance and there is not a lot of noise around you that would ruin a recording a small bit of sound leakage is manageable, and this will cost less to achieve.

It looks from the photos that part of the wall is double brick, like pillars, if this is the case you will probably get away with filling the single brick parts with the stud wall like I suggested before, where there is single brick you need the stud wall etc.

The garage door will need to be fixed closed, remove the runners that the door goes into above your head. Seal around the door so there is no gaps. Get a couple of layers of high density fibreglass and pack against the door, build a stud wall in front of the fibreglass across the whole garage.

The ceiling may need extra supports between the purlins (the longitudinal beams) to fix the ceiling panels, I would leave the big beams exposed as this will give you more ceiling height overall. You will need a couple of layers of fibreglass on top of the ceiling and the ceiling will need to seal up to the exposed beams. The ceiling will need to be double layer sound block plaster, or you could put up a layer of particle board and then a layer of plaster like I suggested for the walls.

Window, If you want light build a double framed double gassed window, if not block it in with fibreglass and panel like the walls.

Door, You want a solid core door, if you can fit a double door onto the frame thats great, or fix sound extra thickness to the door as a minimum, the door will need a very good sealing system.

An acoustics guy once said to me that if water can get in and out sound will get in and out, everything must have no gaps.

Have you thought about how you are getting air in and out? Air-con?

If you need better sound proofing than this, you will need to build a fully floating room, and the dollars climb quickly, for a home studio this should be OK and any sound leakage should be minimal. With structure you may need to get a builder involved as there may need to be some extra support to take the weight of the ceiling.

Cheers
Alan.

 

[troutstudio]

The amount of sound proofing is exponential to the amount of dollars you spend. In other words how soundproof you want to make it means more dollars spent. If the garage is away from other buildings by a distance and there is not a lot of noise around you that would ruin a recording a small bit of sound leakage is manageable, and this will cost less to achieve.

It's attached to the house, but this is not a huge problem. Yes I guess I will have to settle for this. There are aircraft overhead in the mornings especially, but I'm resigned to stopping for those.

It looks from the photos that part of the wall is double brick, like pillars, if this is the case you will probably get away with filling the single brick parts with the stud wall like I suggested before, where there is single brick you need the stud wall etc.

That is the wall facing the street. Originally (I am told) that was the double entrance for the cars. This was swapped to the end so they are indeed pillars. An engineer friend said (like you) fill in the thinner parts, the pillars might sound good left.

The garage door will need to be fixed closed, remove the runners that the door goes into above your head. Seal around the door so there is no gaps. Get a couple of layers of high density fibreglass and pack against the door, build a stud wall in front of the fibreglass across the whole garage.

I was thinking of making a wall out of wood pallets, stuffed with insulation I'm not sure if this crazy or not.

The ceiling may need extra supports between the purlins (the longitudinal beams) to fix the ceiling panels, I would leave the big beams exposed as this will give you more ceiling height overall. You will need a couple of layers of fibreglass on top of the ceiling and the ceiling will need to seal up to the exposed beams. The ceiling will need to be double layer sound block plaster, or you could put up a layer of particle board and then a layer of plaster like I suggested for the walls.

You are the first person who knew the name of those beams! Yes I agree, I was going to do just that. Will I really need double Gyprock? I was going for 16mm fire proof. Two layers of that will be pretty heavy - so they would be fixed to studs, attached to the joists (is that the name for the 2nd layer of wood? - if the purlins are 1, then the joists, then the battens?) The ceiling looks daunting. I was thinking of trying to lightly fix the walls somehow - but you think the whole room will need metal framing?

Window, If you want light build a double framed double gassed window, if not block it in with fibreglass and panel like the walls.

Door, You want a solid core door, if you can fit a double door onto the frame thats great, or fix sound extra thickness to the door as a minimum, the door will need a very good sealing system.

An acoustics guy once said to me that if water can get in and out sound will get in and out, everything must have no gaps.

Have you thought about how you are getting air in and out? Air-con?

If you need better sound proofing than this, you will need to build a fully floating room, and the dollars climb quickly, for a home studio this should be OK and any sound leakage should be minimal. With structure you may need to get a builder involved as there may need to be some extra support to take the weight of the ceiling.

Yes it's the ceiling I need help with. I will be getting A/C and a vent. I do remember using mountains of No More Gaps when I last did this. That was a room within a room and as I said, I had to hire someone to put the stud and track in. Could I use timber studs for the walls?Also should the ceiling be done first or later? Thanks again this is great I am really keen to start on this. I play drums and I haven't been able to practice on the kit since I moved. My wife sings - I made an album for her at our last house. The guitars were done by Rex Goh at his place. I recorded vocals and drums in an upstairs room. Took forever to mix but it came out well. I need to get the room quieter (not so much for the neighbours as to reduce the amount of noise getting in) then I will probably tune it with pre-made solutions.

Cheers
Alan.[/QUOTE]

 

[witzendoz]

I was thinking of making a wall out of wood pallets, stuffed with insulation I'm not sure if this crazy or not.

There are no shortcuts, you are better to do it properly, I know, been there and done that LOL.

Will I really need double Gyprock? I was going for 16mm fire proof.

That will be OK, 16mm is very thick Plaster, that's why I suggested a layer of particle board then the plaster, but I was thinking more like 2 layers of 12 mm sound barrier plaster, so 16mm could be good with plenty of high density fibreglass on top.

I was thinking of trying to lightly fix the walls somehow - but you think the whole room will need metal framing?

Framing is easy and cheap, funny you should talk metal framing, I used that in my last 2 constructions and it works very well, most people use wood. If you can frame the whole room, except where we were talking of the columns

Yes it's the ceiling I need help with. I will be getting A/C and a vent. I do remember using mountains of No More Gaps when I last did this. That was a room within a room and as I said, I had to hire someone to put the stud and track in. Could I use timber studs for the walls?Also should the ceiling be done first or later? Thanks again this is great I am really keen to start on this. I play drums and I haven't been able to practice on the kit since I moved. My wife sings - I made an album for her at our last house. The guitars were done by Rex Goh at his place. I recorded vocals and drums in an upstairs room. Took forever to mix but it came out well. I need to get the room quieter (not so much for the neighbours as to reduce the amount of noise getting in) then I will probably tune it with pre-made solutions.

You will find with a bit of care that the garage will be sound proof enough to play drums and record, remembering that it is a home studio we are talking about. When finished you can carry out tests to see if there is any sound leakage and do few mods, the trick is to get it mostly right first, the usual suspects are doors and windows and gaps. How are you getting the vent / air con in and out of the room?

Cheers
Alan.

 

[troutstudio]

Firstly I can't thank you enough again - you've given me more good info in a day than I have been able to find in weeks.

There are no shortcuts, you are better to do it properly, I know, been there and done that LOL. That will be OK, 16mm is very thick Plaster, that's why I suggested a layer of particle board then the plaster, but I was thinking more like 2 layers of 12 mm sound barrier plaster, so 16mm could be good with plenty of high density fibreglass on top.

With the ceiling and walls - did you use any isolating products? The only ones I can find here is an 'acoustic' furring channel or a clip-to-standard-channel solution; both from Rondo. On the glasswool - some say rock wool or cellulose; others say batts - what do you think is best bang for buck insulation?

Framing is easy and cheap, funny you should talk metal framing, I used that in my last 2 constructions and it works very well, most people use wood. If you can frame the whole room, except where we were talking of the columns

To fix the framing to brick or concrete - did you use a rivet gun? What's the best option there?

You will find with a bit of care that the garage will be sound proof enough to play drums and record, remembering that it is a home studio we are talking about. When finished you can carry out tests to see if there is any sound leakage and do few mods, the trick is to get it mostly right first, the usual suspects are doors and windows and gaps. How are you getting the vent / air con in and out of the room?

I will build a baffle box for it I guess - I did it once before a long time ago it was fiddly but not too difficult. There are more designs available now. Thanks again Alan. Cheers, pk.

 

[witzendoz]

Firstly I can't thank you enough again - you've given me more good info in a day than I have been able to find in weeks.

With the ceiling and walls - did you use any isolating products? The only ones I can find here is an 'acoustic' furring channel or a clip-to-standard-channel solution; both from Rondo. On the glasswool - some say rock wool or cellulose; others say batts - what do you think is best bang for buck insulation? To fix the framing to brick or concrete - did you use a rivet gun? What's the best option there?
I will build a baffle box for it I guess - I did it once before a long time ago it was fiddly but not too difficult. There are more designs available now. Thanks again Alan. Cheers, pk.

I fixed the ceiling direct to the purlins, my building has pressed steel purlins as there is a floor above (mine think goodness) and the steel does not transmit that much. There are some isolation channels available for fixing but in you case I think you could fix direct.

I fixed the steel wall frames only to the floor and roof purlins in the current building, the previous building I did put steel straps between the stud wall and the brick but in this case it was not needed. I fixed to the concrete floor with dynabolts, 6mm, as they only need to take side load not the wall weight. I put some neoprene stripping under the frame to help with any gaps. I teck screwed the top frame to the purlins, but you would need wood screws.

I did use a rivet gun to assemble the actual frames, this is mainly to hold it together while putting up, because when you fix the sheets they actually hold the frames together as well.

I say high density fibreglass, some countries say rockwool, but you need the dense stuff not the fluffy stuff they put in roofs for heat & cold, the fluffy stuff can be handy to stuff into any gaps you might have. I actually used high density polyester in this build as there are no fibres and no itching LOL, it does cost more but much nicer to use.

Alan.

 

[troutstudio]

I fixed the ceiling direct to the purlins, my building has pressed steel purlins as there is a floor above (mine think goodness) and the steel does not transmit that much. There are some isolation channels available for fixing but in you case I think you could fix direct.

I'd love to do that - in this case fix directly to the cross beams but I thought that was a huge no-no? There's nothing but roof up there I thought the ceiling had to be sort of suspended . . .

 

[witzendoz]

I'd love to do that - in this case fix directly to the cross beams but I thought that was a huge no-no? There's nothing but roof up there I thought the ceiling had to be sort of suspended . . .

If there were people living above I would say yes, but I don't think you need worry.

Alan.

 

[troutstudio]

If there were people living above I would say yes, but I don't think you need worry.

Alan.

Really? Seems like everyone is always talking isolation these days. It's expensive though, and if it's not a huge gain I'd like to avoid it. But I'm conscious of the importance of getting this right too.

 

[gecko zzed]

Really? Seems like everyone is always talking isolation these days. It's expensive though, and if it's not a huge gain I'd like to avoid it. But I'm conscious of the importance of getting this right too.

Isolation is indeed expensive. What you need to sort out is, firstly, if you want to spend that much, then secondly, if you had that amount of money to invest in your studio, does that represent the best value for money.

You can make significant improvements to the reliability, consistency and quality of your mixes by spending money on room acoustic treatment, even if sound leaks out and in. Whether you can get away with this depends on where you live and how much of a problem leakage is going to be.

Where I am, for example, is nearly rural, so there is not a lot of external ambient noise, nor are there too many people to disturb, so I am happy to record with the windows open and the sun shining in.

 

[witzendoz]

Really? Seems like everyone is always talking isolation these days. It's expensive though, and if it's not a huge gain I'd like to avoid it. But I'm conscious of the importance of getting this right too.

If you read the threads you will see that the op has not been able to play drums since he moved there, that is why he wants isolation. It is a big gain if you are stopped recording due to disturbing the neibours.

I know in my case if we did not have a soundproof studio I could not record to to outside noise.

Alan