hokypokynose
New member
I would take as much of that money as possible and focus on your room that your recording in.
R
Rev E
New member
I agree with the substance of Scriabin's warnings, although not entirely with his tone. He's basically right. $14,000 is not mega-bucks, but it's a lot of money to get started. As is, you basically have a studio that you'll want to replace the day after you set it up. Your lists focus too much on volume and not enough on substance.
First, I suggest the you have a gold channel or a stereo pair of gold channels. Second, you can't spend that kind of money on gear and only spend $300 for cables. Cables are not something that you get later down the line. You should get good cables NOW...no ifs ands or buts about it. You don't have to buy Monster 1000. Mogami cable is available at Full Compass and is great cabling. Many professional studios are wired with it. ( www.fullcompass.com ). www.markertek.com also sell canare cable...also pretty good.
Rather than get a lot of cheap stuff focus on quality stuff that you won't have to replace in a year's time. Selling mediocre gear not only wastes time, but is usually a money loser. Why waste the time if you can do it right up front and use your future to "add to" your studio rather than "selling and replacing."
For $14k, I would like to see at least 2 "gold" channels. I'm thinking preamps from Avalon, Manley, Demeter, Langevin, Millennia Media, Neve, GML, Focusrite, John Hardy, etc...). Get a couple all-in-one boxes so that you get compression and some EQ if that fits you. Or check out the new Universal Audio revived compressors. Check out www.dreamhire.com They rent quality gear and have links to the manufacturers for more info. You may also want to check out www.brentaverill.com He sells vintage, rebuilt high-end preamps (Neve, API, etc...).
Then get a strip or two of quality mid-tier preamplification for your large group sessions (Presonus Digimax or something along that line).
Get at least one great mic (Neumann M149, M147, U87) or a couple AKG 414s, or Neumann TLM 103s. This way you have at least 1 or 2 channels that can compete with anything in the "upper tier" pro world.
For your price range, I think that computer mixing is the best bet for you. It's the best bang for the buck. To really do analog mixing at a level that "truly" competes with commercial mixes, you need a bigger budget (at least in the $50k - $100k range for an old Neve or SSL board)...you don't have parametric EQ on lower-end analog boards. Otherwise, your best bet is computer mixing. With quality plug-ins like Waves, Ultrafunk, Sonic Timeworks and others, your processing will be at a higher level than having only 1 outboard piece (Lexicon MPX 500). Even if you went outboard, the Lexicon PCM 80, 81, 90 or 91 would be a much better bet.
For the rest of your mics, don't scrimp at the bottom. Get an AKG 451, a couple Shure SM 57s, a Sennheiser MD421 or two a couple of Octavas from the Sound Room and a Studio Projects C1 with good cabling. Instead of 50 gazillion mid or lower-teir mics, get a 4 mic setup for a drum kit. Do the same for other stuff...quality rather than quantity. Plus, for other instruments (other than drums) mic choices are easier and fairly inexpensive (57s for guitars and/or AT4033).
You've got some rethinking to do.
Es.
P.S. why don't you start by telling us what type of group are you most likely to do most of your recording with. Number, instrumentation, setting. Your initial description is a bit vague.
First, I suggest the you have a gold channel or a stereo pair of gold channels. Second, you can't spend that kind of money on gear and only spend $300 for cables. Cables are not something that you get later down the line. You should get good cables NOW...no ifs ands or buts about it. You don't have to buy Monster 1000. Mogami cable is available at Full Compass and is great cabling. Many professional studios are wired with it. ( www.fullcompass.com ). www.markertek.com also sell canare cable...also pretty good.
Rather than get a lot of cheap stuff focus on quality stuff that you won't have to replace in a year's time. Selling mediocre gear not only wastes time, but is usually a money loser. Why waste the time if you can do it right up front and use your future to "add to" your studio rather than "selling and replacing."
For $14k, I would like to see at least 2 "gold" channels. I'm thinking preamps from Avalon, Manley, Demeter, Langevin, Millennia Media, Neve, GML, Focusrite, John Hardy, etc...). Get a couple all-in-one boxes so that you get compression and some EQ if that fits you. Or check out the new Universal Audio revived compressors. Check out www.dreamhire.com They rent quality gear and have links to the manufacturers for more info. You may also want to check out www.brentaverill.com He sells vintage, rebuilt high-end preamps (Neve, API, etc...).
Then get a strip or two of quality mid-tier preamplification for your large group sessions (Presonus Digimax or something along that line).
Get at least one great mic (Neumann M149, M147, U87) or a couple AKG 414s, or Neumann TLM 103s. This way you have at least 1 or 2 channels that can compete with anything in the "upper tier" pro world.
For your price range, I think that computer mixing is the best bet for you. It's the best bang for the buck. To really do analog mixing at a level that "truly" competes with commercial mixes, you need a bigger budget (at least in the $50k - $100k range for an old Neve or SSL board)...you don't have parametric EQ on lower-end analog boards. Otherwise, your best bet is computer mixing. With quality plug-ins like Waves, Ultrafunk, Sonic Timeworks and others, your processing will be at a higher level than having only 1 outboard piece (Lexicon MPX 500). Even if you went outboard, the Lexicon PCM 80, 81, 90 or 91 would be a much better bet.
For the rest of your mics, don't scrimp at the bottom. Get an AKG 451, a couple Shure SM 57s, a Sennheiser MD421 or two a couple of Octavas from the Sound Room and a Studio Projects C1 with good cabling. Instead of 50 gazillion mid or lower-teir mics, get a 4 mic setup for a drum kit. Do the same for other stuff...quality rather than quantity. Plus, for other instruments (other than drums) mic choices are easier and fairly inexpensive (57s for guitars and/or AT4033).
You've got some rethinking to do.
Es.
P.S. why don't you start by telling us what type of group are you most likely to do most of your recording with. Number, instrumentation, setting. Your initial description is a bit vague.
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tyler657recpro
Member
Ok, well, I just want a general recording system, with the ability to be able to do fairly well, almost anything I can throw at it. Uhm...I'll be recording a church prelude cd as my first project most likely. Friends bands, some video production, stuff like that. Also some live recordings that I can later remix. Sorry, I'm being kinda vague, because I'll be using it for a lotta stuff. I've thought about what everyone is telling me, and have once again, had everything turned around for me. I was under the impression that this stuff was at least semi-pro, and not, heaven forbid, prosumer(I hate that word more than consumer). So, I will plan on replacing a lot of this stuff, but will buy more stuff that I will keep. Oh yeah, I basically need, and WANT to mix analogalally(yeah...uhuh...), due to my stuborness, and that I will be doing live stuff at times.
Ok, as far as my list revision goes, here it is.
1; Crest XR-20 - 1709 (no I won't give it up, you can't make me!)
1; Avalon VT737SP - 1800
1; Great River MP-2NV - 1800 (would the sytek be even remotely close to this?)
1; JoeMeek VC1Qcs - 438 (should I forget about this?)
3:FMR Audio RNC1773 - 154
2:Neumann TLM103 - 633
1:AKG C414BULS - 700
1: AudioTechnica AT4050 - 450 (for guitar?)
3; SM57 - 70
2; Marhsall MXL603's - 70
1: Shure Beta52 - 170
1; Lexicon MPX550 - 409
1; T.C. Electronic M1 - 371
the room, wiring acoustics soundproofing everything - 2300
Mackie HR824's - 1100
Tascam CDRW700 - 461 (for mastering to)
Cakewalk Sonar 2.0XL - 250
$500 Computer Upgrade, from 700 cel to 1.2 P3, and 1024mb ram, add a 120 gig HD and maybe a plextor burner
1 MOTU 896 - 999 (instead of deltas which I'd ditch eventually anyway, I'll get away with 8 for now, and add another later)
____________
Total - 14905
Damn, this is hard to give up all the stuff! Well maybe not, but anyway, I plan to be continually adding to this. So let me know what you think. Thanks a lot.
Ok, as far as my list revision goes, here it is.
1; Crest XR-20 - 1709 (no I won't give it up, you can't make me!)
1; Avalon VT737SP - 1800
1; Great River MP-2NV - 1800 (would the sytek be even remotely close to this?)
1; JoeMeek VC1Qcs - 438 (should I forget about this?)
3:FMR Audio RNC1773 - 154
2:Neumann TLM103 - 633
1:AKG C414BULS - 700
1: AudioTechnica AT4050 - 450 (for guitar?)
3; SM57 - 70
2; Marhsall MXL603's - 70
1: Shure Beta52 - 170
1; Lexicon MPX550 - 409
1; T.C. Electronic M1 - 371
the room, wiring acoustics soundproofing everything - 2300
Mackie HR824's - 1100
Tascam CDRW700 - 461 (for mastering to)
Cakewalk Sonar 2.0XL - 250
$500 Computer Upgrade, from 700 cel to 1.2 P3, and 1024mb ram, add a 120 gig HD and maybe a plextor burner
1 MOTU 896 - 999 (instead of deltas which I'd ditch eventually anyway, I'll get away with 8 for now, and add another later)
____________
Total - 14905
Damn, this is hard to give up all the stuff! Well maybe not, but anyway, I plan to be continually adding to this. So let me know what you think. Thanks a lot.
R
Rev E
New member
I think your list is getting close to being a great set-up! As for the AT 4050, I think that a 4033 would be a better choice for guitar. It's a brighter, crispier mic that does guitar excellently. I suppose that you're trying to hedge your bets with the more versatile 4050 (multiple polar patterns), but the 4033 (believe it or not) is better for the application of guitars (both acoustic and guitar cabinets).
You're stuck on that Crown board. I suppose that it's not a bad choice for analog mixing...but I still like computer mixing best...I think dollar-for-dollar, the computer is the best bang for your buck untill you get into a higher quality of analog mixers. But you'll obviously make your own decision.
I suppose the JoeMeek piece would be ok for another "color." Although, it's not essential. You should atleast be aware that you're somewhat limited in the effects department...for analog mixing. If you go with your current setup, perhaps this is the place to start when you upgrade.
Why spend $400 for the Tascam CD burner? You're planning on getting a Plextor burner. Why don't you save that money and just mix to the computer through the MOTU sound card? My church has that Tascam piece (the got it before I got there), it sits on the racks totally unused, because we just mix to computer and master there. EVEN IF you mastered analog, there is no advantage that I can think of in mixing to the Tascam piece over mixing to the computer. Save the dough and mix through the MOTU to the computer. Plus, you've got more options mastering within the computer...spacing, further processing, etc...
Good rethink. Let me know how your purchases come out.
Es.
You're stuck on that Crown board. I suppose that it's not a bad choice for analog mixing...but I still like computer mixing best...I think dollar-for-dollar, the computer is the best bang for your buck untill you get into a higher quality of analog mixers. But you'll obviously make your own decision.
I suppose the JoeMeek piece would be ok for another "color." Although, it's not essential. You should atleast be aware that you're somewhat limited in the effects department...for analog mixing. If you go with your current setup, perhaps this is the place to start when you upgrade.
Why spend $400 for the Tascam CD burner? You're planning on getting a Plextor burner. Why don't you save that money and just mix to the computer through the MOTU sound card? My church has that Tascam piece (the got it before I got there), it sits on the racks totally unused, because we just mix to computer and master there. EVEN IF you mastered analog, there is no advantage that I can think of in mixing to the Tascam piece over mixing to the computer. Save the dough and mix through the MOTU to the computer. Plus, you've got more options mastering within the computer...spacing, further processing, etc...
Good rethink. Let me know how your purchases come out.
Es.
tyler657recpro
Member
What would you recommend spending that 461 bucks on? And then on down the line, I would probably get the PCM-81, then another motu or focusrite Red1, and maybe an avalon vt-747sp?
R
Rev E
New member
Tyler,
Why don't you forget that JoeMeek piece and combine that extra money with the JoeMeek money and buy a Sytek preamp. That way you get 4 clean Class A pres for that price.
Also, why such a weak computer ugrade. P4s aren't expensive at all.
Es.
tyler657recpro
Member
Yeah, I know, but I'd have to get a new socket 420 motherdoard because mine is a 370 as of now, nuther hundred or so bucks, new, more expensive ram, close to 200 more, and a 350w P4 aproved power supply, which'll be another 30 or so. So I'll get by with this for a while. Sonar can run on a 500 so I think it should do fine.
I keep liking the meek less and less anyway, and I wouldn't mind having the sytek. The only thing was I wanted something with more dirt. I have "theoretically" the crest pres and the great river already, so i guess my question is, do I need more dirty pres, if so which one, or should I follow your advice, and get the sytek?
Oh yeah, and what do you know about the Red1? Damn this is a lot of money. Is it possible to make a lot of money in the recording industry, like as a career choice? Am I asking the wrong person?
Anyway, thanks for your help and any future input is greatly appreciated. I'm feeling a lot better about this setup than with the other one which I felt pretty good about to begin with, and I'm just rambling now so...yeah. Thanks
I keep liking the meek less and less anyway, and I wouldn't mind having the sytek. The only thing was I wanted something with more dirt. I have "theoretically" the crest pres and the great river already, so i guess my question is, do I need more dirty pres, if so which one, or should I follow your advice, and get the sytek?
Oh yeah, and what do you know about the Red1? Damn this is a lot of money. Is it possible to make a lot of money in the recording industry, like as a career choice? Am I asking the wrong person?
Anyway, thanks for your help and any future input is greatly appreciated. I'm feeling a lot better about this setup than with the other one which I felt pretty good about to begin with, and I'm just rambling now so...yeah. Thanks
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ambi
New member
jeap... its best not to ask questions. i just finished walking around the wilderness in the middle of the night. weilding bassball bats and monster masks. talking about dracula playing the organs in the backround, with a lot of spirit i might add.
A
ambi
New member
what do you guys know about rackmount analog converters? Onces that can covert sounds into 8 bit, and give em gritty effects, and stuff like that. My friend said he checked out one from akai that was really sweet.
A
ambi
New member
and... are the motu 896's converts really all that much better? Because all 8 channels have preamps, i would think that the unit is more expensive because of that. Im sure the delta 1010 is as good or better, besides, firewire has a slower transfer rate....
can anyone confirm, or disprove any of this? Im really not sure.
can anyone confirm, or disprove any of this? Im really not sure.
J
Jonkan
New member
I´d say get the rme hammerfall and some lucid converters and forget about motu. Alot of people seem to be having problems with their products.
damn I was as spoiled with money as you (you little brat
). lucky enough i can borrow alot of things 
good luck!
/Jonas
damn I was as spoiled with money as you (you little brat
). lucky enough i can borrow alot of things good luck!
/Jonas
tyler657recpro
Member
Ok well, i think you may be right ambi. What do you think of the RME Multiface? Its only 725 usd and doesn't have those stupid pres that I'd prbably never end up using. I basically know nothing about these, except they're supposed to be good. Any info would be greatly appreciated.
R
Rev E
New member
Tyler,tyler657recpro said:
For quality "dirt," you may want to consider instead the Universal Audio M610. Musician's friend has it for a great price (~$1100). I've never used it, but it seems like a great product. This unit seems to be a "keeper."
Do you really need me to answer this? Nothing's different in the recording world than in any other profession. People who are good at what they do, excell and usually get paid for their gifts. Those who are just average...get average. Those who don't know what they're doing...get little.
Es.
tyler657recpro
Member
Took a look at it. Should this be later on, after getting the sytek now, or should I wait a while and get this dirty pre in a little bit? And then forget about the sytek altogether.
About the RME, so you are saying the RME IS better than the delta and the motu?
About the RME, so you are saying the RME IS better than the delta and the motu?
L
littledog
New member
Tyler,
Let's assume that the Crest preamps are more or less neutral sounding and of useable quality.
In that case, I would wait until you got the Crest, and then A/B a (borrowed) Sytek with the built-in Crest preamps. There may not be that much practical difference - in which case you would be better served by investing in preamps that have a different colour than the Crest ones.
At least, that's what I would do. No sense buying a Sytek if it duplicates what you already have. The Sytek is a very nice unit, especially at the price, but you may be better served by a "character" pre. I'd definitely do the Crest/Sytek comparison before committing.
Let's assume that the Crest preamps are more or less neutral sounding and of useable quality.
In that case, I would wait until you got the Crest, and then A/B a (borrowed) Sytek with the built-in Crest preamps. There may not be that much practical difference - in which case you would be better served by investing in preamps that have a different colour than the Crest ones.
At least, that's what I would do. No sense buying a Sytek if it duplicates what you already have. The Sytek is a very nice unit, especially at the price, but you may be better served by a "character" pre. I'd definitely do the Crest/Sytek comparison before committing.
tyler657recpro
Member
Yeah, that's a good idea. Where do you guys go to listen to this stuff? I KNOW they don't have a great river or a sytek at the guitar store, I'm pretty sure they'll hve the mackie monitors, MAYBE the avalon, but I doubt it. Where do you go? Oh yeah, and I don't have any bigshot recording studio owner friends either, so I guess all I can do is buy three of each, and return the other two? The only problem with that, is I'll get all this great stuff, and then when I'm done, I'll feel like I have nothing anymore... any suggestions please? There's a Skip's Music, which is basically a music store, and they have a lot of PA stuff too, but mostly guitars drums, etc. And then there's also a guitar centre, which I haven't been inside yet, but my guess is it's the same kind of stuff. So who knows.
And would somebody please tell me how good the RME Multiface is before I am forced to create another one of those, best sound card for under 1000 posts?
And would somebody please tell me how good the RME Multiface is before I am forced to create another one of those, best sound card for under 1000 posts?
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ambi
New member
A little better than your mom but not as good as your aunt.
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lucid
New member
LOL @ ambi 
wish i had 14k... spend your money wisely my friend. BTW i have the HR824's and love em beyond anything. well. not anything. but beyond lots of things.
wish i had 14k... spend your money wisely my friend. BTW i have the HR824's and love em beyond anything. well. not anything. but beyond lots of things.
tyler657recpro
Member
wow, I totally forgot about this place. Got the notice in my e-mail. It hasn't really changed much has it? I still see all these best pre for 100 bucks posts. And I can't believe this thread is still around. Whelp, just sayin hi. So, hi. Bye.
Sennheiser
New member
Niether one! Where is the frickin' 2" machine listed??? I didn't see one. A digital machine to record with that kind of budget? Oh Lord.
If you have $14K to spend and don't even have a $7K 2" 24-track machine in your studio I ain't recording there. That other $7K will allow you to make a great recording with the right equipment picks.
I didn't see a Sennheiser mic on the lists either. Umph!
If you have $14K to spend and don't even have a $7K 2" 24-track machine in your studio I ain't recording there. That other $7K will allow you to make a great recording with the right equipment picks.
I didn't see a Sennheiser mic on the lists either. Umph!