Studer 169 direct out

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igorw111

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Hello,

I would like to ask for some help, but don't know if this is the right place.
I have a Studer 169 mixing console - 10 channels and stereo master section. These days I'm getting a Telefunken M15a 8 track 1" machine and I have a problem. On my mixing console I can go direct out (from every channel) only via send/return jack. That signal is of course unbalanced (it's not an issue because the cables are 2 meters long), but the signal is -10db because insert point is before fader. Will it be enough signal to go to tape machine? I can make a small modification on my mixer and put insert point after the fader, that would give me 10db more, so then the signal would be around 0db. Would this be enough?

Thanks
Igor
 
It's probably expecting +4dB balanced. You might consider something like the Art Cleanbox Pro. It can convert between balanced and unbalanced, both ways at the same time (which is perfect for when you have that one device in the output chain that is unbalanced and all the rest are balanced). You would need four of them, however, since they are stereo devices.

There is also the Arx Balance 8, but you could buy eight of the Art devices for that.
 
good advice from JP...
I have a studer 169 into 1"-8-track setup myself. I wrote a longish blog post about it here: The Bottle Garden » Blog Archive » Studer 169 Console Linked Pair Restoration/Installation Odyssey
Basically, there's a non-invasive mod where you can have a post-fader direct out without affecting your pre-fader inserts (very handy for compressors etc). It was not my idea, but I have the links to the instructions.
You just need to re-purpose the signalling banana jacks, which I reckon are only useful for broadcast situations.
I've found that the console has fairly copious headroom so you can usually push the gain to a healthy level on your master recorder and just lower the master fader (if you need it open for monitoring) without ugly distortion. The manual has a bit where they talk about the headroom, and the gain staging charts are very helpful. I made my post fader direct out taps before the channel mute, so for things you don't need to monitor you can easily push the level.
But again per JP's advice, if you buy some sort of matchbox unbal/bal converter it'll make for a very easy workflow.
Good luck!
 
oh I forgot to mention... Just in case you didn't notice in the manual: the insert point is -10dBu which is equal to -12.2dBv rather than the -10dBV nominal level for most matchboxes. A really small (probably unimportant) detail, but I thought it was worth bringing up for the sake of precision.
 
Another option is to simply get another desk with 8 outs, and for example use that as the front-end for the deck and use the Studer as the mixing desk, or vice-versa. What you're doing, to use the inserts to interface with the deck sounds a lot like a frig that there are better solutions for. Though it could just be me misunderstanding what you're attempting.
 
ethyrvalve said:
good advice from JP...
I have a studer 169 into 1"-8-track setup myself. I wrote a longish blog post about it here: The Bottle Garden » Blog Archive » Studer 169 Console Linked Pair Restoration/Installation Odyssey
Basically, there's a non-invasive mod where you can have a post-fader direct out without affecting your pre-fader inserts (very handy for compressors etc). It was not my idea, but I have the links to the instructions.
You just need to re-purpose the signalling banana jacks, which I reckon are only useful for broadcast situations.
I've found that the console has fairly copious headroom so you can usually push the gain to a healthy level on your master recorder and just lower the master fader (if you need it open for monitoring) without ugly distortion. The manual has a bit where they talk about the headroom, and the gain staging charts are very helpful. I made my post fader direct out taps before the channel mute, so for things you don't need to monitor you can easily push the level.
But again per JP's advice, if you buy some sort of matchbox unbal/bal converter it'll make for a very easy workflow.
Good luck!
Click to expand...

Hi guys, thanks for answers. I actulaly now Roginator personally (I'm also from Croatia), but I think he is not here right now, so I can't ask him. So I want to do the same thing as You did on Your console. Pick the signal after the EQ and faders. So If I wire everything as on his pictures, insert points will be intacted? Do I have to do anything else to put the signal in those signaling jacks or this modification does it? If I do that, I ewill have enough signal for tape recorder?

@ jpmorris thanks but I really adore preamps and eq section on this desk so that's why I don't want to mess around with another console (that and money of course). I would like to leave my 169 as little intact as I could so this mod seems to me like a logical move. So I'd like for it to serve me as a recording and mixing console :)
 
Hi Igor,
Roginator's tip worked like a charm for me. The insert was unaffected.
If you can find the male and female cable mount versions of the crimp connectors that Studer used, you don't even need to solder or permanently anything--just make a little extender for the wire (i think it's red, i can't check now, I'm at work) roginator shows. It's a pretty clever mod he (and I believe the guy from Mexico with the screen name Dualflip) came up with.
I can't recall if his instructions made it post-fader, post-eq but pre-mute. But I think it's a good idea to do it that way. Doing so, you can mute channels that are going directly to the tape machine but still send the two busses should you ever need multiple microphones to go to one track (e.g. top and bottom snare mic).
JP again makes a good point tho... if you can find a cheap-o mixer, it would be handy to have around as a dedicated tape return monitoring setup while tracking. I agree with you that the pres and EQs on the 169 are pretty tasty.
 
ethyrvalve said:
Hi Igor,
Roginator's tip worked like a charm for me. The insert was unaffected.
If you can find the male and female cable mount versions of the crimp connectors that Studer used, you don't even need to solder or permanently anything--just make a little extender for the wire (i think it's red, i can't check now, I'm at work) roginator shows. It's a pretty clever mod he (and I believe the guy from Mexico with the screen name Dualflip) came up with.
I can't recall if his instructions made it post-fader, post-eq but pre-mute. But I think it's a good idea to do it that way. Doing so, you can mute channels that are going directly to the tape machine but still send the two busses should you ever need multiple microphones to go to one track (e.g. top and bottom snare mic).
JP again makes a good point tho... if you can find a cheap-o mixer, it would be handy to have around as a dedicated tape return monitoring setup while tracking. I agree with you that the pres and EQs on the 169 are pretty tasty.
Click to expand...

Hi Ethyrvalve,
I have another little mixer for monitoring purposes, so it's not a problem. So now You have signal in Your signaling jacks. Did You change them for some bigger conections?
 
Hi Igor,
I'm just using the signalling jacks. I had to make a snake to the patch bay with banana plugs on one end.
 
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