ez_willis
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Perfect example of why I bought a drum set, learned to play them, learned to mic them, and learned to track them the right way. It was way easier than getting a drummer, btw.
Perfect example of why I bought a drum set, learned to play them, learned to mic them, and learned to track them the right way. It was way easier than getting a drummer, btw.
sweetnubs
New member
This is why you go to a recording studio. You can set up and play live. All the amps can be isolated. Even the drums can have their own room. Overdub at will without worrying about bleed. The studio is a microscope. If you don't sound good playing live at a studio I highly recommend not releasing anything or not playing live until you do sound good.
E
eeb
New member
ok try this,
do everything live again only spend way more time on mic placements.
it only sounded flat and boring because you weren't capturing the feel.. if anything i find a live recording will usually always have the opposite effect.
I'm actually in a similar situation.. I have a band coming back in the studio after laying down 1 song a couple months ago.. they were convinced (and i didn't argue either) that they should do it part by part..
it really didn't work out that well in my opinion.. the drummer couldn't really play to a click and the songs just had no "feel" (drummer and everyone else had never played to a click before) they're a hardcore band and they're coming back in next weekend to do a 5 song ep. I told them that i'm going to record them live.. I'm 100% confident that the results will be night and day.. I don't have the biggest space to record so i may have to get creative with the mic placements but fuck it.. no headphones, no click just play.. Just be sure to spend ALOT of time getting a great sound from the get go and you should be fine.
sweetnubs
New member
Also packing blanket amp tent and kick tunnel can help when recording live, especially small spaces. Di bass then reamping is another option too. Rock out with your cock out!
SouthSIDE Glen
independentrecording.net
I wouldn't recommend that for zydeco. Adds a whole 'nother painful dimension to the term "squeezebox".
G.
L
LOTYBOY
New member
So far so good
I did a sound test today. Got the drum mics all set up got the tracks all set and then turned on my amp (the volume was still set from the last rhythm section I recorded) and played one of our songs and then checked how much guitar signal was recorded by the drum mics. The overhead mics picked up the most (which I expected) but even it was only -24db the rest of the mics were at -42db or less.
Considering the drums record at just below 0db I'm fairly confident they'll down out any bleed.
I haven't checked to see if the drums will bleed into my guitar track. The reason being I don't care. I'm used to overdubbing my guitar tracks so if there is bleed I will just delete the rhythm guitar track and overdub it like usual. The beauty is the drums will be recorded. With -24db guitar in the overheads it will either add a little depth to the guitar or if not it will be easy enough to remove.
The reason for the time restraint is that we're playing a huge ass festival in November and want to have the album done in time for it (and the holiday season) that and we want our practice space back. Our drummer is actually very very talented. Its only the studio he has trouble with, at our shows we are constantly getting praise for his performances. I would never replace him not only does he rock but the band is made up of four brothers.
The other reason we decided to make a "franken-mix" instead of playing live is we want the record to be sort of dynamic. Like The Network, certain Foo Fighters songs, etc. Instead of just making an album that sounds just as good as we sound live I want to give the listener a little something extra. So that while the songs are the same and the performances are just as good the album is a slightly different experience than our live performances.
The way I hope to achieve this is through subtle but creative panning, volume, reverb and EQ differences throughout the songs. So that breakouts breakout a little more. The lead guitar fades into the center channel for a solo and then back to its default panning position. Small things like Pick Slides literally slide from one speaker to the other. Now I am flexible, they're just ideas we have. If they're too distracting or what have you I will remove them but thats the idea as of now.
I did a sound test today. Got the drum mics all set up got the tracks all set and then turned on my amp (the volume was still set from the last rhythm section I recorded) and played one of our songs and then checked how much guitar signal was recorded by the drum mics. The overhead mics picked up the most (which I expected) but even it was only -24db the rest of the mics were at -42db or less.
Considering the drums record at just below 0db I'm fairly confident they'll down out any bleed.
I haven't checked to see if the drums will bleed into my guitar track. The reason being I don't care. I'm used to overdubbing my guitar tracks so if there is bleed I will just delete the rhythm guitar track and overdub it like usual. The beauty is the drums will be recorded. With -24db guitar in the overheads it will either add a little depth to the guitar or if not it will be easy enough to remove.
The reason for the time restraint is that we're playing a huge ass festival in November and want to have the album done in time for it (and the holiday season) that and we want our practice space back. Our drummer is actually very very talented. Its only the studio he has trouble with, at our shows we are constantly getting praise for his performances. I would never replace him not only does he rock but the band is made up of four brothers.
The other reason we decided to make a "franken-mix" instead of playing live is we want the record to be sort of dynamic. Like The Network, certain Foo Fighters songs, etc. Instead of just making an album that sounds just as good as we sound live I want to give the listener a little something extra. So that while the songs are the same and the performances are just as good the album is a slightly different experience than our live performances.
The way I hope to achieve this is through subtle but creative panning, volume, reverb and EQ differences throughout the songs. So that breakouts breakout a little more. The lead guitar fades into the center channel for a solo and then back to its default panning position. Small things like Pick Slides literally slide from one speaker to the other. Now I am flexible, they're just ideas we have. If they're too distracting or what have you I will remove them but thats the idea as of now.
andyhix
:dank:
If you are likely to do that anyway, why not just run the guitar direct (and bass, and other guitar, etc.)? Then you won't have any bleed into the drum OH. Your drummer can wear headphones. I know he can. I have confidence in him. You should to. It's often just a matter of getting the headphone mix right. If everyone should be wearing headphones, you get that feeling of being in the same "place" - everyone has to yell at each other to hear one another. It's all good.
If you REALLY can't get your drummer to wear HPs (which is crazy, but whatever...), try putting up some gobos around the drum kit (or the guitar amp) (or both). Raid the bedrooms, and get some mattresses - they can work in a pinch if you don't have anything else.
T
The549
a hack
I am able to play with a click, and I won't do it either. Same idea as the drumagog, vocal pitch corrector, etc. Yes it can allow for crappy playing, but it can also deny groove, feeling, space, and freedom. Metronomes are a limitation. If i were in an electronic band or a speed metal band, I wouldn't be opposed to using them more. But the best way to record this band is live. Overdub where needed.I'd love to hear someone tell that to a professional jazz drummer.
Here ... stick these cans on and play to a click track. Oh yea ... and don't use any brushes. We're going to overdub those.After we drumagog your snare, so make sure not to hit the thing too soft -- we don't want it to get triggered by a cymbal hit or anything.
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M
Micter
No Title
Funny how so many drummers won't/can't play to a click. I have no problem with a mechanical metering device. Most humans can't keep meter for more than one measure. Try it! Start with a click in the mix and mute after a couple measures. Let it go for a few and un-mute it. You'll be surprized at how far off you can get in a short period of time. There is no right or wrong in this situation but it sure seems as though the drummer somehow needs to adapt to either a click ,headphones or both.
ez_willis
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Drumbers are a limitation. A metronome is a tool that makes it less obvious.
The only drumbers I've ever heard bitching about a click are ones with crappy meter and jazz drumbers that don't need it.
I suspect the overwhelming majority of you aren't jazz drumbers.
SouthSIDE Glen
independentrecording.net
BINGO!
Good drummers don't like metronomes because metronomes hold them back. They may vary their pace a bit, but when they do, it's usually in a purposefu; and good way and not because they just can't keep a beat.
Bad drummers hate metronomes because they expose the fact that they *can't* keep a beat - i.e. they're not really drummers yet. When they vary from the grid, it's random, it's not purposeful or for emotion; or if it is purposeful, it's done badly.
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gtr1960
New member
you state that he can play it live .. then just scratch track it with a full mix and send that to his headphones.. cutting out his drums.. or leave em in if he doesn't mind.. it will be like he is playing with the band .. only you will be recording just the drums .. I know you have this idea already... ok click track works good for certain things or if you can program the click to different meters and tempo changes... or build the songs out a section at a time.. multiple ways to do this.. I noticed you said that the songs change tempo and i guess maybe meter too... fed by what ever instrument is in control of that spot of the song..
you could spend a lot of time programming a click into a track with the changes, but why, just scratch track it... it'll be easier.. plus you'll get the natural tempo changes with the whole band together.. more feel in the music this way
in this instance the best spot to use the click is for several measure before the song starts, or have him click his sticks together for several measures at the start, and during the breaks, or tempo changes /meter changes during the scratch track
you could spend a lot of time programming a click into a track with the changes, but why, just scratch track it... it'll be easier.. plus you'll get the natural tempo changes with the whole band together.. more feel in the music this way
in this instance the best spot to use the click is for several measure before the song starts, or have him click his sticks together for several measures at the start, and during the breaks, or tempo changes /meter changes during the scratch track
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eeb
New member
I'll agree with this statement 100%
I always use a click when I record my drums.. We play indie rock... I'm not even near good enough to play jazz or to record with out a click.. the click is a guide to let you know how you're playing really is..
K
kludge
New member
I've found that how difficult it is to record to a click depends in part on what the rhythm I'm playing is. Some parts, it's easy, some, it's hard. For those hard parts, a drum machine beat that follows the rhythm better can be easier to play along.
It helps a LOT of the musician practices to a metronome regularly, though. Most drummers don't, which is kinda sad.
It helps a LOT of the musician practices to a metronome regularly, though. Most drummers don't, which is kinda sad.
starbuck26
New member
Slightly Useless
You know... The Nazis had a click track they made the Jews march to...
Think about it...
You know... The Nazis had a click track they made the Jews march to...
Think about it...
R
Rick01826
New member
I have the same issue with out drummer. I dont like using headphones..waa waa waa...i told him to deal with it. What I ended up doing is telling him in order to isolate the drums we are all going direct. Fixed his ass hahahaha!!!!
I plugged one guitar into GR2 and the other into PODXTLive and i went direct with the bass so he had to wear headphones and recorded the drum tracks that way. Then we retracked our parts over again through our amps. If you have the equipment its a great way to get the "live" drum sound and keep everything isolated. Now on stage he wants In-Ears instead of a monitor. I have created a monster!!!!!!!!!
I plugged one guitar into GR2 and the other into PODXTLive and i went direct with the bass so he had to wear headphones and recorded the drum tracks that way. Then we retracked our parts over again through our amps. If you have the equipment its a great way to get the "live" drum sound and keep everything isolated. Now on stage he wants In-Ears instead of a monitor. I have created a monster!!!!!!!!!
T
The Axis
Member
+1
I have no way of knowing how competent the drummer is; but I know that there is lots of music that simply CANNOT be tracked to a metronome-like drum track or click track. In fact, the idea that is should be is (IMO) a myth propagated by "soulless" musicians.
C
chessrock
Banned
Honestly, I can't figure out when it was that adhering to a perfect tempo at all times ... somehow became the "standard", or a requirement for a band's recording.
But I would bet that it would roughly coincide with the time recordings started to suck a lot more.
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But I would bet that it would roughly coincide with the time recordings started to suck a lot more.
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