Still allergic to digital ?

[grimtraveller]

What has happened to the "allergic to digital" thread?
On my feed, it's completely disappeared.

 

[Papanate]

Because the concept has moved from actual science to aesthetical science - when digital was in it's first throes - and LPs were being transferred to CDs sans any thought - the digital sound was IMO horrible - also when digital recording first started most guys used analog methods - and they didn't mix - so now we have digital recording and transfers and the quality is quite good - and the added convenience of digital with endless tracks and editing is a bonus.

I don't understand the people who want to use Tape - it's a major PIA to maintain, edit and record - and the sound isn't all that.

 

[RFR]

@grimtraveller It would appear that the recycle dude is gone. Wiped off of the forum, along with all posts and threads.
He’s been cancelled

 

[sweetbeats]

And now I’m even more glad I just never opened that thread in the first place. Who has time for pointless conversation involving people trying shape other’s opinions with their own…we now return to our regular program already in progress…which is hopefully, on this particular sub-forum, discussions and support related to analog audio equipment by people who are interested in such things because of whatever reason, or no reason in particular.

 

[spantini]

The cornfield?

 

[RFR]

Because the concept has moved from actual science to aesthetical science - when digital was in it's first throes - and LPs were being transferred to CDs sans any thought - the digital sound was IMO horrible - also when digital recording first started most guys used analog methods - and they didn't mix - so now we have digital recording and transfers and the quality is quite good - and the added convenience of digital with endless tracks and editing is a bonus.

I don't understand the people who want to use Tape - it's a major PIA to maintain, edit and record - and the sound isn't all that.

I have one request. And that is for people in the digital camp to refrain from ‘jumping borders’ into the analog forum telling us analog folk how shitty and inferior the analog method of recording is.

I personally use and endorse all forms of recording and have a hybrid set up.

No one that likes to use analog has ever gone into the digital sub forums to poo poo on digital recording (that I’m aware of)

I’m not trying to jump on you personally, your post just seemed appropriate to highlight what I feel is a larger issue.
People that frequent this forum are looking for pertinent information, assistance etc.
No one is here to be convinced this ‘antiquated’ medium is shit.

Please allow us analog farts to have our fun in this small sub forum.

Thank you .

 

[sweetbeats]

This…^^^^^^…is at the root of what I was talking about. Like, fine…if you think analog is a dumb echelon reserved for sound production Luddites, that’s fine. Feel that way. But find something else to do when you feel compelled to come into the room here and parade your opinions around. Go to the digital room instead and talk about how awesome digital is.

I too run a hybrid setup…have computer-based and standalone DAW software and equipment, I know how to use it and really appreciate the things it can do that are not possible with analog equipment…but for various reasons my primary interest is in the analog stuff…it’s been that way since I got into recording and mixing 30 years ago, and the roots of that go back many years before that.

 

[DM60]

I have one request. And that is for people in the digital camp to refrain from ‘jumping borders’ into the analog forum telling us analog folk how shitty and inferior the analog method of recording is.

I personally use and endorse all forms of recording and have a hybrid set up.

No one that likes to use analog has ever gone into the digital sub forums to poo poo on digital recording (that I’m aware of)

I’m not trying to jump on you personally, your post just seemed appropriate to highlight what I feel is a larger issue.
People that frequent this forum are looking for pertinent information, assistance etc.
No one is here to be convinced this ‘antiquated’ medium is shit.

Please allow us analog farts to have our fun in this small sub forum.

Thank you .

I don't think that is asking too much!

 

[grimtraveller]

I don't understand the people who want to use Tape

Perhaps you should actually try. Try to understand why different people like doing things and using things that you don't.

Who has time for pointless conversation involving people trying shape other’s opinions with their own

I agree....but it was the OP that was, in the main, the one doing that.

which is hopefully, on this particular sub-forum, discussions and support related to analog audio equipment by people who are interested in such things because of whatever reason, or no reason in particular

Because this is a recording forum, it follows that there will be people interested in recording, regardless of the medium. Many people of a certain age passed through one medium before moving to another. For some of those people, the interest died with the move. For others, it didn't.

I have one request. And that is for people in the digital camp to refrain from ‘jumping borders’ into the analog forum telling us analog folk how shitty and inferior the analog method of recording is

I absolutely agree.
But what do you do when you are interested in both forms of recording and haven't taken sides, but someone on either side makes spurious claims of fact and science, rather than merely positing their opinion ?

Thank you .

And good night.

 

[grimtraveller]

It would appear that the recycle dude is gone. Wiped off of the forum, along with all posts and threads

This is one of those things that always gets my goat. I hate it when threads are doctored to show what a reasonable set of people we are rather than show us as we were at the time in our true light.
The root of historical revisionism.

He’s been cancelled

Like a lame TV series in its prime !

 

[grimtraveller]

Or even a good one !

 

[grimtraveller]

It would appear that the recycle dude is gone. Wiped off of the forum, along with all posts and threads.

By the way, I was wasn't trying to stoke any flames. I found the "Allergic to digital" thread a very interesting one, for the most part, with a lot of passion, interesting thoughts and yes, some friction, but hey, we're all adults here.

 

[snow lizard]

People can make the argument that digital is technically superior and be correct in what they're saying. Much lower distortion and noise, extended flat frequency range, wow & flutter, yadda yadda. It's almost interesting, but doesn't really say anything about aesthetics. Seems a bit of an awkward thing to leave out of a discussion about recording music where the goal is to create something aesthetically pleasing.

It reminds me of people talking about the TLM103 and how it won a bunch of tech awards when it came out based on the specifications it has. I'm sure it's a very nice microphone but some people find it kind of boring.

If we want to lay specifications on aesthetic value we're kind of talking apples to architecture.

Anyway, if the recycling advocate feels one way or the other about it, whatever. Fine by me. The thread kind of had a troll vibe to it with the "mental issues" and imaginary dogma rhetoric. Many people made the point that both types of media have their strengths and weaknesses. Didn't seem like a lot of people were taking an absolutist perspective aside from the OP.

I'm still surprised that it's vapour and ashes now. Maybe something happened that we're not aware of.

"The mysterious 'Recycle' goes full bore, steam punk postal at homewreckers. Screen shot at 11."

Who knows?

 

[60's guy]

By the way, I was wasn't trying to stoke any flames. I found the "Allergic to digital" thread a very interesting one, for the most part, with a lot of passion, interesting thoughts and yes, some friction, but hey, we're all adults here.

I concur, with one caveat. It was more than obvious from the get go that Mr. Recycle was the most recent alias indentity created by a priorly banned HR member.

I agree with Grim that the the thread, itself, wasn't all that harmful.

I'm guessing that when Mr. Recycle was removed, the removal included all his posts.

In 2004, I did all of my recording to tape, trying to decide if I should buy a stand alone digital recorder. It was a no brainer to purchase a digital recorder with 16 track capability. I continued recording to tape and began recording digitally and combining both worlds. None the worse for wear!

 

[TalismanRich]

I have one request. And that is for people in the digital camp to refrain from ‘jumping borders’ into the analog forum telling us analog folk how shitty and inferior the analog method of recording is.
I personally use and endorse all forms of recording and have a hybrid set up.

Thank you .

I don't think the problem was that digital guys were dissing analog. It was the attitude that Recycle presented. Digital is crap. Digital ruins everything. It's evil! Obviously that isn't true, just as saying that tape and analog are crap isn't true. There were some good comments that were presented in that thread. It's a shame that the time and efforts that some of us spent posting there are lost. There have been far worse threads left online.

And, Yes, there have been people on digital threads who claim digital is bad and that analog tape is the only real medium. If there's anything that I have learned in the audio world it is that elitism is rampant. It's almost like religion or politics on steroids! If you can't afford a Neve console and a locker full of Neumann mics, you might as well not even record anything. Chinese gear is crap (even if it's made in Australia). Nobody can make a capsule as good as the Germans. It's like they have magic elves that tension the diaphragms just perfectly! Really?

I was recently reading a thread on another site where a poster said that he would never buy a particular company's gear because he didn't like the name of the company. I wanted to ask if he would buy it if they changed the company name to Acme and put a roadrunner on as a logo. I'm pretty sure he would not have seen the humor or sarcasm intended, so I just moved on.

 

[RFR]

I don't think the problem was that digital guys were dissing analog. It was the attitude that Recycle presented. Digital is crap. Digital ruins everything. It's evil! Obviously that isn't true, just as saying that tape and analog are crap isn't true. There were some good comments that were presented in that thread. It's a shame that the time and efforts that some of us spent posting there are lost. There have been far worse threads left online.

And, Yes, there have been people on digital threads who claim digital is bad and that analog tape is the only real medium. If there's anything that I have learned in the audio world it is that elitism is rampant. It's almost like religion or politics on steroids! If you can't afford a Neve console and a locker full of Neumann mics, you might as well not even record anything. Chinese gear is crap (even if it's made in Australia). Nobody can make a capsule as good as the Germans. It's like they have magic elves that tension the diaphragms just perfectly! Really?

I was recently reading a thread on another site where a poster said that he would never buy a particular company's gear because he didn't like the name of the company. I wanted to ask if he would buy it if they changed the company name to Acme and put a roadrunner on as a logo. I'm pretty sure he would not have seen the humor or sarcasm intended, so I just moved on.

S

I get what you’re saying. I wasn’t talking about that thread. I’ve been here on and off for maybe 10 years.

The analog forum, in particular @sweetbeats with his epic Tascam M520 thread is what got me to sign up.

It warmed my heart that there were still old school enthusiasts keeping thing’s alive.

Despite its flaws and problems, Analog recording has a historic part in the creation of some fine music, and some people love it.

My post that you quoted referred not to the recycle thread, but what I’ve seen over the time I’ve been here. And that’s digital guys trying to shit on the old ways.

Think of it this way. You have a neighborhood, and across the tracks you have a newer neighborhood. It’s all modern and posh. Yet the modern posh inhabitants insist on coming into your ‘old’ neighborhood to tell you what a shitty neighborhood you live in.

That’s not right.

Now some of us live in both neighborhoods, some in the old and some in the new. We can all get along if we want to.

As to recycle, I don’t know what to think. His thread did seem a bit ‘trollish’, maybe he was a banned member coming in to cause some trouble, maybe he was a little not right in the head, maybe a dick, or maybe he believed 100% in what he was saying. Maybe he’s at his computer right now laughing his ass off at this thread.
I just don’t know.

But for him being completely scrubbed from this forum is pretty interesting.

It was interesting thread however.

 

[Mickster]

He wasn't a troll at first. He was someone who's low self esteem made it difficult to deal with unexpected opinion rejection or pushback of any kind....revealing his true intention not to debate or discuss....but to insist and confirm his trembling ego needs. Then he became a troll...because that's the only way such types can react.

Mick

 

[markmann]

Recycle was definitely a troll and stirred the pot any chance he got and that's why you only saw one post from me before I bailed but I did read all of it. There were many very excellent and interesting posts by other members. I don't get why analog vs digital is even a big deal. Both systems work and each have their pros and cons.

 

[grimtraveller]

the thread, itself, wasn't all that harmful

I don't think it was harmful at all.
One thing I learned to do very early on in my time at not only HR.com but everywhere online, was to use whatever madness may have been going on within a thread to state the points I wanted to make, that pertain to whatever the subject of the thread was. I can't control anyone else's responses, I can't prevent flame wars. But I can be touched by points I agree with, disagree with, don't understand or am intrigued by. And when one learns to filter out all the stuff that might drag a thread down, one can see the value in the myriad of thoughts that often populate a thread.
Now, we and many others that might come here in the future have lost the benefit of many really good and thoughtful {even Recycle, whoever they may be} responses and because of what ?

In 2004, I did all of my recording to tape, trying to decide if I should buy a stand alone digital recorder. It was a no brainer to purchase a digital recorder with 16 track capability. I continued recording to tape and began recording digitally and combining both worlds. None the worse for wear!

My story is almost identical, even down to the year ! The only difference was that I went for 12-track capability !!

It was the attitude that Recycle presented. Digital is crap. Digital ruins everything. It's evil!

In retrospect, I think this was, unwittingly probably, a great move on Recycle's part.
Quite often, the thread subject or the opening post is merely the bed on which a wider and further-ranging discussion lies. If someone is trolling, so what ? Give them their sad day in the sun and let the rest of us be all-weather. ⛈ ️
Besides, the sniping is sometimes really funny.
On a true crime forum I often look into, a guy whom everyone on the board chided for his racism once reacted to some point I'd made by calling me "Spearchucker" {that was actually one of his milder retorts !}. I just responded with "Better the spearchucker than the spear !"

Obviously that isn't true, just as saying that tape and analog are crap isn't true

Some people don't like analogue recording and they should have the freedom to say so and why, without being nasty to those that love and continue to use the medium. Their reasons for changing mediums are valid to them because any reason a person has for liking something is true. Even if it's not scientifically valid or technically true {or later return to it}. "Warmth" is a good example. It actually works both ways.
Paradoxes really occur.
Personally, I love recording, I am a real fan of recording history and just because I wouldn't use Les Paul's original sound on sound methodology today or can see its shortcomings doesn't mean I can't think it is wonderful, brilliant and hugely innovative. I love reading about it and hearing/reading people discuss it, even though I wouldn't touch it with a barge pole. And I'll praise it to the hilt.
Analog recording is responsible for the overwhelming majority of the music I've loved all of my life. And I dug it big-time while I used it. I can say that while simultaneously stating that I wouldn't go back to it. The reasons I wouldn't use it now are nothing to do with it being crap because how can it be crap if most of the music I love and first recorded came about through it ? That would be like criticizing breast milk, even though I wouldn't drink it now.

It's a shame that the time and efforts that some of us spent posting there are lost

This really is the number one bugbear of mine. When people give their time, thoughts, energy and reading over a number of weeks into a thread, only to have everything removed, well, that's hardly going to encourage people to get involved in the future, is it ?
Does HR.com only want echo-chamber threads with 7 or 8 responses ? Do we want to present the recording world as a mono-syllabic, single-celled amoeba ?

There have been far worse threads left online

Too true.
I would go as far as to say that members shouldn't be allowed to have their posts removed.
But then, I'm a dictator at heart !

And, Yes, there have been people on digital threads who claim digital is bad and that analog tape is the only real medium

This has also been true over the years.
But I think it is worth pointing out that the main forums {recording, mixing, mastering etc} aren't digital or analogue forums. They're to do with a common goal. Recording sound and music.
Within that, there's room for specific isolated subjects and that's good too.

If there's anything that I have learned in the audio world it is that elitism is rampant

Unfortunately also true. But I think that exists in every world one cares to name. It's not always a bad thing if it is handled and presented with care and a desire to share and learn or contrast without denigration.

It's almost like religion or politics on steroids!

I've long felt that it is a major weakness and failure on the part of us as human beings that we can't, no, aren't willing to, discuss religion and politics in a civil manner.
Of course they are keenly held matters ~ so they damned well should be. The question for me is always this: are we mature enough to state our thoughts and beliefs and what we may see as some of the shortcomings of "the other sides" without resorting to superiority and nastiness and vilification of those we don't agree with, while allowing them equal freedom to do likewise ?
I don't pretend it's easy . Neither do I accept it is impossible.

If you can't afford a Neve console and a locker full of Neumann mics, you might as well not even record anything

One of the things that I have liked about HR is that there are all kinds of practitioners of recording and audio here, ranging from high-level pros to guerilla recorders.
I think some people simply don't have the freedom of mind to enjoy a variety of audio quality and that often translates to elitism.
But the elitism swings both ways. There can be a kind of "3-chord" punky lo-fi elitism as well. Just as damaging and small-minded.

It warmed my heart that there were still old school enthusiasts keeping thing’s alive

For me the old-school enthusiasts are no different to the digital practitioners. They're all recorders, facing many of the same challenges and many of their trials, travails and stories are fascinating.

Despite its flaws and problems, Analog recording has a historic part in the creation of some fine music, and some people love it

I've never found anything in music to be without flaws and problems !

My post that you quoted referred not to the recycle thread, but what I’ve seen over the time I’ve been here. And that’s digital guys trying to shit on the old ways.

Sometimes, when I'm explaining to non-tech friends, the processes of how I record music, I find that my workflow and my explanations have changed very little in the switchover from one to the other. But even just before I left analogue recording, my methods were altering, if ever so slightly. Progress and change are human, not medium-driven.
To be absolutely honest, when I listen to a piece of music, whether it was recorded via a 4,8,16, 24 etc-track tape deck or DAW never enters my head.
I like the old ways. If I didn't, I wouldn't be considering spending stupid money on that huge "Recording the Beatles" book when it gets reprinted later this year.
But I also like the not-so-old ways. They're not new anymore.

It was interesting thread however.

Thank you.....and goodnight.

 

[grimtraveller]

I wouldn't use Les Paul's original sound on sound methodology today

Ironically, that was how some of the first recordings I ever took part in were done, back in '82. And bouncing on a 4-track beyond 2 generations with what was, in effect sound-on-sound, is what pushed me to up to 8-track. Which then some 13 years later spurred my move to digital.

I don't get why analog vs digital is even a big deal

It's not. The real underlying deal is the need that human beings seem to exhibit to justify our existence and choices and that often comes in the form of defecating on others.