Sticky Shed Help Thread

M

Me-Uzik

New member
Hey, it's ok;
I personally think more about the environment than about the corporations in general, however like I said it depends on what you're doing;

If you're recording another band then it might not be the time to make experiments, because you might get a producer shouting at you if things turn out wrong hehe... ;)

But if you're recording for yourself and things go wrong well you knew there was a certain risk at the start and you just have to accept the consequences I guess...

Or if you don't want to go through all the trouble also...
Baking has its downsides, I ruined a metal reel once because the plastic middle melted and deformed lol! (After a few times)
I couldn't even put the reel on the machine because it wouldn't fit...

But I tend to think out of the box a lot so, don't mind me... :p

Me-Uzik
 
B

Beck

Guest
Me-Uzik said:
...Or if you don't want to go through all the trouble also...
Baking has its downsides, I ruined a metal reel once because the plastic middle melted and deformed lol! (After a few times)
I couldn't even put the reel on the machine because it wouldn't fit...
Click to expand...

Haha :D That reminds me of a funny story. When I was first experimenting with baking tape a few years ago I put a couple 7" plastic reels in our regular kitchen oven on very low heat, but forgot to warn my wife. A few minutes later she cranked the heat up to 400 degrees F to preheat the oven for dinner.

I heard a lot of activity in the kitchen and then it dawned on me... "Holy Sh*t!" :eek:

I ran out as quickly as I could but the reels and tape were melted into blobs. Oh well, live and learn. :D

I later realized a conventional gas oven isn't ideal for baking tape anyway, so I went out and bought a food dehydrator. It works very well. :)
 
cjacek

cjacek

Analogue Enthusiast
Me says, forget old tape and buy stuff from RMGI or buy out whatever is left of Quantegy. I mean, even if you have to buy less reels, as the result of cost, which, at least to me, is still very affordable, it will be good, fresh tape.

I, personally, would choose a couple of reels of fresh stock over a couple dozen old reels, no matter the brand, whether new old stock, opened, used or dirt cheap. Makes no difference. Plus, I'd know I'm keeping whatever company I'm buying from alive, in this case RMGI, the only manufacturer of analog tape today. Quantegy is not making anymore and we still don't know about ATR. Think about it.
 
cjacek

cjacek

Analogue Enthusiast
Hey Tim, just to let you know that your "Sticky: List of Bad Tapes on eBay" thread, constant updates therein and efforts ARE appreciated. I'm sure you know this but I thought I'd throw that in, just in case. ;)
 
B

Beck

Guest
Thanks Daniel. I just hope it saves a few poor saps from sticky-shed hell. There's nothing else like it on the web... I just wish I had thought of it before. ;)
 
_DK

_DK

New member
A question here! :)
I've got 10 reels of tape with very valuable stuff on them. Problem is, the reels are not original and I can't tell what company/model/year the tape is. How do you tell if there's a sticky shed problem and if I can bake them or not?
 
M

Me-Uzik

New member
Hi DK,
if they're all the same brand just play one of them for a few minutes;
If you notice that the high frequencies are slowly disappearing, or you hear a "eeeeeee" kind of sound this means it has the sticky shed thing.

Also if the heads get dirty real quick...

This happens to the back coated tape generally (the back of the tape is black).

If it's the case then follow the instructions I gave earlier to bake them.
Start with one and see how it goes.
The most tapes I have baked at once was 2, but I usually go with one at a time.

If they are Ampex 456/457 or Scotch 226/227 there shouldn't be any problem.
If they are non back coated tapes, especially Scotch Classic, then don't try it.
There are other tricks to recover what's on them.

Hope this helps.

If you have more questions you can also PM me.


Me-Uzik
 
B

Beck

Guest
_DK said:
A question here! :)
I've got 10 reels of tape with very valuable stuff on them. Problem is, the reels are not original and I can't tell what company/model/year the tape is. How do you tell if there's a sticky shed problem and if I can bake them or not?
Click to expand...


What width tape is it? How long have you had it?

If you have sticky shed your machine will run slowly or even stop. It may or may not squeal.

Baking will not hurt backcoated tape, even the newer type without sticky-shed. If it is smooth with no backcoating you should not bake it.

There is a lot of bad info out there about how to bake tape. I’ve even seen people recommending microwave. :eek:

Never bake tape in a conventional oven. This is an absolute no no. Follow the directions from the site below, which was listed in the original post that started this thread. You need to use a convection oven, a dehydrator, or build a box and use a light bulb for heat.

http://www.tangible-technology.com/tape/baking1.html

In my experience your tape should be baked at least 4 hours at about 135 degrees F.

There are two problems with conventional ovens.

1. Whatever temp you set it for it will rise far above that temp for short periods as it maintains the oven temp. This is true for electric and gas ovens.

2. Natural gas and propane have too much moisture to sufficiently dehydrate the tape. The RH in a gas oven is very high.

Also check the document below for background. It’s the original AMPEX patent for baking tape.

http://www.richardhess.net/restoration_notes/USP5236790.pdf
 
_DK

_DK

New member
Thanks for the info!
It's 1mil tape, none of it is back-coated and it's from around late 80s early 90s.
Some of them do play slowly, but the heads are clean (it could be my deck actually, which I've picked up just a couple days ago... it's probably the belts). After I stop, run forward to the middle of the tape and play it plays without a problem and sounds great (no loss in high frequencies).
 
M

Me-Uzik

New member
I've baked in a conventional oven and had no problem, after a few tests that is. ;)
But it may differ from oven to oven...
Of course don't make tests with tapes that have anything important on them.
In fact I would probably recommend what Beck said for important tapes.

As for Dk, I think your tapes are fine, from the info you gave I don't think you need to bake them, especially since they're not back coated.
 
_DK

_DK

New member
Just to make sure I got it, ONLY back-coated tapes can have sticky shed? All non-coated tape is fine?
 
M

Me-Uzik

New member
Hmm, I had a few non back-coated tapes with sticky shed...
Even video tapes...
But from what you said your tapes don't seem to have it.
You may need to fix your machine or make some adjustments for the tape to play ok.

And Beck, microwave?!
I have to try this someday ahah! :D
But uh, you can't use metal reels in the microwave...
Maybe I'll pass on this one... I'll see... ;)
 
  • Like
Reactions: _DK
B

Beck

Guest
Me-Uzik said:
I've baked in a conventional oven and had no problem, after a few tests that is. ;)
But it may differ from oven to oven...
Of course don't make tests with tapes that have anything important on them.
In fact I would probably recommend what Beck said for important tapes.

As for Dk, I think your tapes are fine, from the info you gave I don't think you need to bake them, especially since they're not back coated.
Click to expand...

One way you can use a kitchen oven is to use just a light bulb for heat. I've never tried this but I've heard of people putting larger bulbs where the little oven light goes. You'll have to experiment with bulbs that will keep the oven around 130 degrees F or so.

Incandescent bulbs are really just little heaters that happen to give off some light. :)

Yes please defiantly pass on the microwave. ;)
 
B

Beck

Guest
_DK said:
Just to make sure I got it, ONLY back-coated tapes can have sticky shed? All non-coated tape is fine?
Click to expand...

That's right. However, some non-backcoated tapes can have another problem known as LOL (Loss of lubricant). Some people get these conditions confused. LOL will cause a squealing sound and increase friction like sticky-shed does.

In addition all tapes shed a little oxide, but some more than others. This is not sticky-shed syndrome, but just plain old oxide rubbing off. Some lots of AMPEX/Quantegy 499 were notorious for heavy oxide shedding.

There are also some older non-backcoated tapes that have problems with the oxide layer flaking off the polyester film.

There are a lot of good reasons to buy only new tape.
 
Last edited:
cjacek

cjacek

Analogue Enthusiast
Looking over the List of Bad Tapes on eBay, especially from this relatively short period of time, it's breathtaking how many sales of potentially and outright bad tapes there were. That Quantegy didn't address this issue, in print, on their site, from around '95 when they took over from Ampex, is outright criminal and, as Tim already pointed out, was one of the things which led to Quantegy's closing tape production. Too many sales lost to bad batches of Ampex. I bet most people, especially those relatively new to the game, thought Ampex is the same as Quantegy. Still, Quantegy did nothing to educate its potential customers. That, their overhead and lack of reaching out to the typical home recordist, who just picked up a TASCAM open reel recorder for peanuts on eBay, is what killed them. But then again, this was already stated in another thread. ;)
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top