Stereo Micing Acoustic Guitar with an SM57 and an MXLv67G

[mbouteneff]

I realize this is a bit random, and perhaps hopeless, but I was just wondering if anyone has ever tried stereo micing a guitar with an SM57 and an MXL v67g?

I'm recording a song that will only have an acoustic guitar, vocal, and an occasional atmospheric sound included. The sm57 and mxl v67g are the only mics I own, and I've been playing around with a bunch of different placements...a couple have actually worked out ok (XY, 110 degrees apart, 30cm away from 14th fret, with sm57 pointing towards the body), and others downright sucked.

Any success stories? Any recommendations?

Thanks!

Mike

 

[flamin-gitaur]

I usually use a condensor mic when recording acoustic guitars because it seems to pick more of the guitar and the room better than dynamic mics. at least that is my experience. Or I will run my electric/acoustic guitar DI and mic it at the same time to give me a fuller overall sound.

 

[treymonfauntre]

just double track

 

[stainlessbrown]

I've found a pencil condenser to work best-the MXL 991 for the fretboard and a larger diaphragm for the soundhole (AT-4040... even the Octavia's worl relatively well. Dynamic mic's need to be quite close for real good sound capture (IMO... but then again...)

...opinions expressed here are base on a limited number of options and are by nomeands the final word on the subject

 

[flamin-gitaur]

just double track

Double tracking just isn't the same as stereo mic'ing, because it will almost always sound like two guitars, if you just want to fill out the sound, running two mics into two different tracks will maintain the unity of the guitar but will still give you the ability to treat each track individually as if it were two guitars. Each track could be panned, eq'd, or whatever completley differently to fill out the sound, but there would not be any timing issues that would occur with double tracking.

 

[treymonfauntre]

and panning a 57 and a v67 isn't going to sound like 2 vastly different tracks? its going to be distracting as hell.

 

[flamin-gitaur]

Trey>
I see where you are coming from, I guess it is just another way to skin a cat.

 

[mbouteneff]

Thanks

Thanks for your replies..! Yeah, they can sound pretty different -- at most, I'd pan no more than 50% (probably less) to minimize that distraction.

In an xy config, which mic would you point at the guitar body, and which would you point at the neck?

(when all is said and done, I might have to surrender and just use the mxl v67g in mono, if I can't find something that works)

 

[phaqu]

In an xy config, which mic would you point at the guitar body, and which would you point at the neck?

In XY, the mics should have the same spread over the area, not one pointing in one specific area , the other, another area. Think of setting them up in front of you, with the capsules almost touching, at a 90 degree angle or more.Pan those hard left and right. I also use two of the same matched mics for XY(mainly cardioid condensers).

 

[Big Kenny]

Try the 57 at the 12th fret and the 67 either next to your ear or couple feet off the bridge

 

[mbouteneff]

Thanks

Awesome, thanks guys. I'll give both methods a shot tonight...

 

[Sonic Idiot]

Tracking the guitar twice has a much bolder sound signature than does stereo micing with two very different mics. Neither are likely to produce a "distracting" sound.

 

[gcapel]

if your using condenser mics, just make sure that the two mics are further apart than the distance from the mics and the source (acoustic guitar). Thus prevents phase cancelation.

Please correct me If this is a false statement.

 

[slidey]

Try the 57 at the 12th fret and the 67 either next to your ear or couple feet off the bridge

snap on that one...................also try rolling out the serious bottom on the 57 & try & get it into the sound hole (as close as you can)

 

[Big Kenny]

if your using condenser mics, just make sure that the two mics are further apart than the distance from the mics and the source (acoustic guitar). Thus prevents phase cancelation.

Please correct me If this is a false statement.

Phase issue: courtesy of Klaus Heyne
This is going to be a long answer and still will only scratch the surface,so I'll give your the simple answer right at the beginning:

The polarity of mics is a develish problem to troubleshoot without a phase clicker.

Because mics are at the beginning of the recording chain, where, unlike with processing equipment, the "input" is an acoustic, rather than electric impulse, there needs to be a universal agreement, what exactly "in phase" / correct polarity means.

Fortunately, the Europeans did already fix a reference in the 1950s which has been gradually adopted throughout the world through the decades, to the point that today all mics manufactured are identical in polarity.

Polarity of a mic is defined as:
A positive acoustic wave at the front of the diaphragm of the mic shall produce a positive sine wave-half measured at pin #2 of the XLR.
(A positive acoustic wave is to be understood as the compression, not expansion, half of the cycle of air molecules wavering back and forth, and creating high or low air pressure at the front of the diaphragm.)

Trouble shooting and solution for your mics: Buy or borrow a phase checker (no studio should be without one!)

The checker consists of two units, the size of an MXR stomp box, a sender which pulses DC acoustically or electrically, and a receiver connected to the output of the device, which shows through a green or red LED whether you are polarity correct or have any polarity reversals between input and output.

These checkers are indispensable in all kind of applications. How often have they helped me find polarity reversals in car stereos, multi-million dollar recording studios, professional speaker cabinets, etc!

If you have good ears, and if you know the absolute polarity of your head phones, your cables, your mic pre and the polarity of a reference mic, you can identify the polarity of you mic under test by humming low notes into the mic (Polish Polarity Tester):

In addition to receiving the audio of your voice through the mic/headphone, you will always receive the same audio directly via your jaw bone into your ears.

If you set the listening level of the head phones about equal with the audio your ears receive directly from your voice cords, via jaw bone, you will hear if you have a polarity reversal somewhere in the mic/cable/power supply, because you will hear a drop out of low frequencies- the same audio which your ear receives from two different sources is out of phase from one source (the electric one). Adding both sources at your ear, with one source polarity reversed cancels long wave lengths (low frequencies).

If all this sounds too complicated, buy a phase checker.

 

[ljguitar]

Stereo not critical, but a good sound is...

...Any recommendations?

Hi Mike...

If I were recording with your gear, I'd lay the SM-57 aside, and record the guitar in mono. The stereo aspect is not critical to a successful recording, but recording a great sounding guitar track is.

First mic position I'd try would be directly 18'' out from the body/fingerboard joint aimed at the joint.

An alternative spot to mic is 18'' out from the lower bout below the bridge.

If the sound was too thin, I'd move the mic toward the guitar in 2'' incriments pulling tests till it became too bassy, then back it out 2''. If it was too bassy I'd move it out in 2'' incriments till it sounded a bit thin and then move it in 2''. This allows you to use the proximity effect to your advantage and as a tone controlling element. Proximity effect means the closer you get a cardioid mic to a source the bassier it becomes (or the further it is backed away from the source the thinner the sound becomes).

In the mixdown stage I'd pan the guitar slightly off center to separate it from the vocal and add a very light stereo reverb to the overall mix.

 

[tdukex]

Hi Mike...

If I were recording with your gear, I'd lay the SM-57 aside, and record the guitar in mono. The stereo aspect is not critical to a successful recording, but recording a great sounding guitar track is.

First mic position I'd try would be directly 18'' out from the body/fingerboard joint aimed at the joint.

An alternative spot to mic is 18'' out from the lower bout below the bridge.

If the sound was too thin, I'd move the mic toward the guitar in 2'' incriments pulling tests till it became too bassy, then back it out 2''. If it was too bassy I'd move it out in 2'' incriments till it sounded a bit thin and then move it in 2''. This allows you to use the proximity effect to your advantage and as a tone controlling element. Proximity effect means the closer you get a cardioid mic to a source the bassier it becomes (or the further it is backed away from the source the thinner the sound becomes).

In the mixdown stage I'd pan the guitar slightly off center to separate it from the vocal and add a very light stereo reverb to the overall mix.

This is good advice. A single condenser 18" out from the neck joint is always a good place to start. Try angling it toward and then away from the sound hole to adjust bass response (instead of moving closer or farther away). If you want a stereo effect, clone the track then set the 2nd track back about 15 - 20 ms and pan the tracks to your need for the song.

 

[eraos]

Try the 57 at the 12th fret and the 67 either next to your ear or couple feet off the bridge

One that's worked for me is similar to this. I think I got it from the Recording Engineer's Handbook.

I had a condenser about 2 feet above the middle of the neck of the guitar, aimed in the direction of the 12th fret. I had another mic (a 990 in my case) aimed between the bridge and the butt end of the guitar, about 10 inches away.

 

[Dogman]

I have had decent luck with both types of mics. I also just put the mics on a table that is at the same height as the soundhole, and about 1 foot away. This is a couple of cheap Nady's, one a larger condensor, and one a pencil type.....Gumby

This is made up of both stereo tracks, and some mono stuff, with a chorus track panned the opposite side.

 

[Robert D]

Well, that's a bit of a challenge. The V67G has gotten a prtty good buzz going as a vocal mic, but it's transformer coupled slow response characteristics don't lend itself to being a good acoustic instrument mic. The 57 has sort of similar limitations for this application. You're going to want to avoid any proximity effect (don't close mic) and probably stay well clear of the soundhole. New strings are going to be important, and some positioning and EQ work to get the two mics sounding similar.
I don't think non matched mics necessarily make a distracting track, nor do I think dbl tracking is evil. Dbl tracked acoustic guitar sounds like two really tight guitarists playing together. It's not right for everything, but not wrong for everything either.

Good luck, and save up for a pair of SDCs if this is a common recording chore for you. I love the Oktava MK-012s for this, and to a lessor extent the MXL 603s or the newer 604s.