Starting out & Needing help!!!

[drummer_boi_87]

Hey to all!!

Bit of background - drummer from a punk/rock band! (thats it)

We - 'my band & I' - have decided its time to record our material (at last) however, rather than spend £££££'s in a studio we want to set up a home studio so that we can spend all the time needed getting the sound that we want!

Space is not a proplem however what we need to record is! Unfortunatly none of us know what we need athough we have experience of using it. We are looking for any information on what equipment we need to buy/hire, just a simple set-up to begin that can be added to later!

If anyone can give us a list and details of what hardware, mixing desk etc & computer software we need plz plz do??

Many thanks!

MoRBiD!

 

[Cloneboy Studio]

We - 'my band & I' - have decided its time to record our material (at last) however, rather than spend £££££'s in a studio we want to set up a home studio so that we can spend all the time needed getting the sound that we want!

As a studio recordist myself I've seen a lot of people go down this route and end up spending more money than if they went to a studio--and end up with far worse productions. In fact, I've never seen anyone beat a decent studio with their home recording equipment unless they had about 5 years of recording experience.

So if you're willing to wait 5 years until you have something sounding good... go for it.

Chances are your stuff will sound the same as or better than the crappy project studios that are out there in increasing numbers... but don't confuse this with a good sound.

 

[Farview]

I would have to agree with Cloneboy. At least go to a real studio tofirst to see how it's done and get an idea of what you are getting yourself into. The initial cash outlay for a system that can record drums is pretty big.

 

[drummer_boi_87]

We have experience of being in a studio and with using mixing desk etc and fancy doing our own stuff & with me doing a 'National Dip In Music Tech' at college this year i think we can make a good go of it and produce some good stuff.

Can i ask what equip you started out with and rough costs?

Also what software have people got on there computers for recording and where to get it from (within the UK if poss)

MoRBiD

 

[Farview]

A really good bargain are the adats and da-88 (38) tape based machines. These things were really expensive not to long ago and now are really cheap.

Find a used 8 bus board, Some DBX compressors, used drum mics (shure beta 52 or akg d112 on kick, sennheiser 604 or 421 or shure 57 on toms and 57 on snare. Octava md012 for over heads) Some of the drum mics can be good for guitar as well.

Get a good condenser (for cheap an AT4033) for vocals.

And good monitors

 

[Blue Bear Sound]

We have experience of being in a studio and with using mixing desk etc and fancy doing our own stuff & with me doing a 'National Dip In Music Tech' at college this year i think we can make a good go of it and produce some good stuff.

Good luck....... you'll need it.....

What these guys mentioned about having some experience under your belt to get good results shouldn't be taken lightly........ moving a fader on a mixing desk is not "experience"......

 

[Cloneboy Studio]

Good luck....... you'll need it.....

I have to back Blue Bear 100%.

There are *thousands* of things that can potentially bunge up your recording--least of which are your EARS... which I can *guarantee* you are not 1/10th as developed as any professional audio engineer on this forum (there are a number of us at varying levels). I mean, what do you do about -4 versus +10 gear? What about eliminating ground loops and hum? Will a dynamic give you the snare sound you want, or do you need to look at condensors? Will the condensor even take the SPL generated from the snare hit?

Even subtle mix things can screw you up. Do you know how to calculate milliseconds of delay versus a tempo so things are in time? How much reverb is 'too much'? How the heck can you get rid off that annoying hissssss that happens every time your singer pronounces a sibilant?

It may just look like setting some mics up in front of stuff and adjusting audio levels, but trust me--there's a whole world out there of important issues that all effect your audio. To think that you could absorb 1/10th of what you need to know in a semester class is laughable.

Also, expect to spend at least 1000 bucks if you want to record drums with more than three microphones. Trust me, 1000 bucks is nothing in the recording world. Heck, a good gate (Drawmer PunchGate) costs a thousand bucks!

Even quality plugins will rip your budget up. A UAD-1 card with all the nice stuff is 900 bucks, the basic UAD-1 is 500. A TC Powercore is 500 bucks, and another 900 if you want the Sony Oxford plugs. Waves plugins aren't cheap either--a starter set will set you back about 500 bucks and Waves Diamond (which is what you'd need to track/mix/master) is 2850 bucks! JUST FOR THE SOFTWARE.

OUCHHHH!!!!



Honestly, the bare minimum of a setup that will produce average results would be something like:

Alesis Monitor 1's - nearfield monitors (200 bucks)
Mackie CR1604 - 16 channel/4 buss mixer (250 bucks)
Fostex VF-16 - 16 track 16 bit hard disk recorder (350 bucks)
Shure SM57 (4) - dynamic cardoid mic (90 each)
AKG D112 (1) - dynamic cardoid mic (175 bucks)
AKG C2000 (2) - large diaphragm condensor mic (200 each)
Adobe Audition - mixing/mastering/wave editing software (250 bucks)
UAD-1 - DSP card + plugins (500 bucks)

$2485 bucks please.

I didn't even factor in decent cabling (about 100 bucks minimum), headphones and distribution amplifiers, sound diffusors/absorbers, DI boxes, power conditioners, racks OR a computer sufficiently powerful and tweaked to process your audio.

The SM57's would be on snare and toms, the D112 on kick leaving the 2 C2000's for overheads. For bass use a direct signal (you know how to set that up right???) and the D112 on the amp. For guitar I'd recommend an off-axis SM57 and C2000 about 3-4' back from the amp. For vocals use either a SM57 or C2000 depending.

By all means we all started somewhere, but if you don't have an overriding passion for recording, an affinity for technology, electronics and low-level physics, an obsession with equipment I would recommend leaving this job up to the professionals. It will be cheaper in money and time spent.

 

[Cloneboy Studio]

Can i ask what equip you started out with and rough costs?

Hehehee.

A Fostex 4 track cassette portastudio in 1988, a 4 channel Yamaha mixer, a Sony cassette recorder/player (for mixdowns), a Boss DR550 drum machine and 2 SM57's.

In 1988 that setup cost me almost 2500 bucks. Imagine my glee when I moved up to the 6 track cassette portastudio in 1991! I stuck on the six track until about 1999, when I moved up to a Mac G3/MOTU 2048 I with the Waves plugins. THAT setup was about 6k back then.

Now I'm on an Alesis HD24xr and Allen & Heath System 8 24 channel/8 buss console.

 

[Ronan]

I am agreeing with a lot that has been said here.

Go cheap and simple. A Mackie 1604 and an old ADAT should do the trick or maybe find an old cheap reel to reel. Make sure that any multitrack works before you buy it.

Get a bunch of Shure SM57s and a few adventure mics you find used and go nuts. It will be almost impossible for you to make a record that sounds like any of the big major label punk stuff (which is just pop music with spikey hair ;-( but you might stumble across something unique that has cool energy and vibe.

Find the simplest tools you can get your hands on and make some music. If you start going down the computer route, it will probably kill most of your punk bands creativity dead in its tracs while you guys try and figure out why the hell your tracks are playing back and the wrong pitch or why your software can not find the right drivers etc...

 

[Bulls Hit]

Alesis Monitor 1's - nearfield monitors (200 bucks)
Mackie CR1604 - 16 channel/4 buss mixer (250 bucks)
Fostex VF-16 - 16 track 16 bit hard disk recorder (350 bucks)
Shure SM57 (4) - dynamic cardoid mic (90 each)
AKG D112 (1) - dynamic cardoid mic (175 bucks)
AKG C2000 (2) - large diaphragm condensor mic (200 each)
Adobe Audition - mixing/mastering/wave editing software (250 bucks)
UAD-1 - DSP card + plugins (500 bucks)

$2485 bucks please.

I didn't even factor in decent cabling (about 100 bucks minimum), headphones and distribution amplifiers, sound diffusors/absorbers, DI boxes, power conditioners, racks OR a computer sufficiently powerful and tweaked to process your audio.

The SM57's would be on snare and toms, the D112 on kick leaving the 2 C2000's for overheads. For bass use a direct signal (you know how to set that up right???) and the D112 on the amp. For guitar I'd recommend an off-axis SM57 and C2000 about 3-4' back from the amp. For vocals use either a SM57 or C2000 depending.

This is a good list. However of starting out, I would replace the
Fostex VF-16 - 16 track 16 bit hard disk recorder (350 bucks) and the
UAD-1 - DSP card + plugins (500 bucks) with an
M-Audio Delta 1010LT 8-in,8 out soundcard ($220)
and a nice fast computer ($700).

Also I wouldn't bother micing the snare & toms starting out. Just use the 2 overheads and the D112 on the kick.

This setup would give you 3 tracks of drums, 1 bass, 2 guitar, & 2 vox. Get to record that live sound

 

[Cloneboy Studio]

The problem with recording directly to a computer is the unreliability and complexity that can be offsetting to newbies not intimately familiar with computers and operating systems.

The way I see it, the life of a newbie is hard enough... why confound your problems with driver issues?

 

[Ronan]

Also I wouldn't bother micing the snare & toms starting out. Just use the 2 overheads and the D112 on the kick.

Me and Bulls Hit are usually chiming in with same advice in this, but for a punk record I really like to have the snare track. I usually need to process the snare a bit to get it to cut through noisy guitars. I would rather go with a mono overhead and have the snare track

 

[Bulls Hit]

The problem with recording directly to a computer is the unreliability and complexity that can be offsetting to newbies not intimately familiar with computers and operating systems.

The way I see it, the life of a newbie is hard enough... why confound your problems with driver issues?

The M-Audio drivers are very mature now.

When I got my Delta 44, I plugged it in, selected the asio drivers, and that was it. It survived a computer upgrade and hasn't missed a beat in the 2 years I've had it. It's very relaible and certainly not complex.

I usually need to process the snare a bit to get it to cut through noisy guitars. I would rather go with a mono overhead and have the snare track

Yeah you're right, particularly if recording live