starting building basement studio next week

  • Thread starter Thread starter danogarvey
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danogarvey

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FIRST OFF, I DO HAVE A PICTURE DRAWN UP ON PAINT, I JUST DONT KNOW HOW TO POST IT IF YOU WOULD LIKE TO SEE THE IDEA...now onwards

my friends and i are starting construction on my basement studio next wed.
all the reading i have come across is a little advanced for what i know about construction and acoustic treatment and what have you. i have a few (hopefully) simple questions that i would like to have help with because i could not find ones that i could understand through john sayers site or through this board.

1) i need to do a drop ceiling due to pipes and wiring. what material should i use for the celiing? right now it is wide open.

2) since i have no construction experience and my friends (who do) have no idea what types of materials we should use...what should i do for the wall seperating the live room from the control room (2x4 studs with insulation between then then drywall on both sides is what my friend tom had suggested)?

3) what kind of glass should i use to view into the live room?

4) right now i have cheap carpet that pulls right up over the tile floor. which is better? should i use something else?

5) as far as acoustically treating the room, i read up on ethan winer site, unfortunately it went a little over my head seeing as how i dont know much of the vocabulary he is using and since although i have home recording experience i have never actually put together a room that sounds good? so what are some easy ways to acoustically treat my basement to get the best sound possible (bass traps, ect)?

6) in order to prevent hearing sound from upstairs while recording do i just use insulation in between the ceiling studs?

7) i drew up a picture of the basement on paint, i just dont know how to put it on here, if you have any ideas on a possibly better way to construct the studio please please please give me your advice!!!!

i want to do this to the best of my abillity and it is permenent since i do own the house. money is no issue at this point (but it will be soon i am very sure). i have 1k to start with as far as putting up the wall seperating the control room from the live room. then we'd like to do the ceiling. then the treating.

this board is amazing. everyone here is so fucking knowledgable i just know that i am light years behind. but i come here everyday and try to learn what i can.

i appreciate all the help

once again you are all amazing
 
1) Drop ceiling like 2x4 panel grids? or sofit and drywall? If sofit and drywall you might consider using a resiliant chanel (can be bought from home depot) and double layering of drywall.

2)A stagerd stud wall is the easy solution for isolating two rooms.
Basicly its like building two walls. I will include som pics.

-Blaze
 

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Buying RC from Home Depot

I went to 3 home depots in my area to order RC and they had no clue what it was. I went to special order it from all locations and they could not find anything in there database to order it. They searched on many keywords but couldn't find anything. Any suggestions on how to order RC from Home Depot?

danogarvey did you have any luck at home depot?

I need to use an RC as well. I'll probably get the RC from Auralex if I can't get it from home depot.
 
I was able to prchase RC from Home Depot in Canada (more specifically Newmarket, just north of Toronto). They are manufactured by a company called Bailey (sp?). Not that it may be of any help, but it was in the section next to the metal studs.
 
I agree that a drywall supply shop should have resilient channel.

You might also contact Dietrich Metal Framing and ask for a local distributor. Their best RC is called RC Deluxe.

I'm in Illinois, and some Home Depots I've been in stock it while others don't. I've also seen it stocked near the metal studs.

I special ordered the Dietrich RC Deluxe from Menard's (a Home Depot Clone in these parts).

Make sure you get RC, not hat channel or something else that was not meant for soundproofing.

Best of Luck
 
I'm from the smallest state in the US - Rhode Island. I took a stroll to home depot this afternoon and looked for the Z - Bar. You guys were right. Although the home depots in my area don't stock it and they won't special order building supplies. :(

A home depot in Cape Code, MA did have 81 in stock though.

I called Dietrich Industries and they refered me to a bunch of distributors in my area.

KAMCO Supply in Cranston RI sells an RC-1 channel. 12' for 2.11 cents.

I can't do the room within a room appoach for my studio due to space limitations. I'm taking the single wall - RC approach.

At the moment my walls are caulked w/ Arualex stopgap (got it for 14.95 even from Guitar Center - 29oz tubes). There also insulated with 8pd/sqft FIBREX panels (form of rock wool). I got my rock wool from SPI in Pawtucket RI.

I'd like to hang at least 2 layers of sheet rock on my walls. Do you guys think its better to put 1 layer of sheet rock first on the studs, then RC, then another layer of sheet rock. Or install the RC on the studs then hang two layers of sheet rock off the RC?
 
blazingstrings

we are going to do the staggard studs now
thanks for the help

as far as the ceiling we still do not know

should i use RC in between the rooms as well?
 
RC between the rooms is uneccessary

go to www.johnlsayers.com and hit up the forums for better and more detailed info.

RC is usually used on the ceiling just to decouple the drywall from the joist above. There's no need to do that between rooms if you are using a double or staggard wall technique becasue they are already decoupled.

Cheers and let's see some pics...
 
thanks and how do i do ....

i want to post pics i just dont know how ! :)

thanks for the advice
ive been reading on johnlsayers.com for the last few months and the ethan winer site just rececently

i just am having a hard time comprehending what im reading

im a bit retarded like that

help me post pics!
 
go to www.photobucket.com sign up for an account, transfer your pics there and the paste the img tag that's located right under the photo on photobucket right into you post

cheers
 
hee hee, really BIG text really little picture. can't really see much.
 
shit i didnt even realize i did that
how do i make it bigger?
 
Good you did find RC! I personaly just from experiance have used RC between rooms in my friends studio's and was happy I did. My best friend didnt do resiliant wasnt happy as he had a drummer that was like thunder and still could hear him in the next room. My other friend did the RC on the walls and had the same guy over and couldnt hear him..........
Thats not to say Ptownkid is wrong, just a diference of opinion.

Also make sure if you double layer sheet rock to fill the seems with silicone or just tape the seems(mud and mud tape). And dont line up your second layers seems with the first. overlap them. Dont forget to fill the walls with insulation!
One of my old jobs we built a pro studio and when the contractors were insulating they forgot it in two walls and had to tear off the rock(idiots and drinkers)......

Are you going to hang sound stop or a rubber membrain between the rock and the studs?

Later and have fun with your build!

-Blaze
 
the home depot here does have rc (but im lucky because there is like 60 home depots in the detroit area)


and because of your advice i will use it between the rooms just to be safe

as far as what you said :

"Also make sure if you double layer sheet rock to fill the seems with silicone or just tape the seems(mud and mud tape). And dont line up your second layers seems with the first. overlap them. Dont forget to fill the walls with insulation!
Are you going to hang sound stop or a rubber membrain between the rock and the studs?"

we were just going to mud the dry wall then paint over it. what do you mean by not lining up the 2nd layers with the first?? also, the the sound stop or rubber membrain?

we were going to just insulate and hang the 2 layers of dry wall right there

the guy helping me do the construction is experienced at building homes but not studios....so i dont know what you mean, he might though?
could you explain so i can tell him to help him make this better

also, if you can see the pic, in the 2 back corners i am building 2 amp risers and i have a friend who is building bass traps for me

i will post pics asap for you guys once the building begins!!!!

im pumped for this ive been recording in my bedroom for the last 5 years and i cannot wait to get a good home studio going
 
Hello danogarvey. You have a mouthfull of questions. Although you've received some good advice, in my opinion, you have also received some bad. Not that I am an expert, but I do have a few suggestions. However, it would behoove you to answer a few questions regarding your existing space, as well as a few explanations.
First off, lets seperate acoustics from sound transmission. They are two intirely different animals. Now, lets concentrate on a few ESSENTIAL concepts for succesfull ISOLATION construction of your spaces.

1) i need to do a drop ceiling due to pipes and wiring. what material should i use for the celiing? right now it is wide open.
Click to expand...
This depends on your SOUND TRANSMISSION LOSS TARGET. Let me explain.
First off, a dropped T-grid ceiling will do virtually NOTHING for sound transmission, other than reduce speech frequency transmission. This also has to do with flanking of sound down pipes, ducts, holes through joists, walls, floors etc., structural transmission through the existing framing, and other factors. Frankly speaking, if good isolation and acoustics is the goal, you have to look at this from a viewpoint that the whole is only as good as the WEAKEST link. For instance, if you connect the framing for a staggered stud wall to the floor joists above, you now have a DIRECT flanking path for noise sources above such as foot traffic, radios, dishwashers, etc. In that regard, has anyone mentioned the need for ISOLATED SWAY BRACKETS???? :rolleyes: No. How about the understanding of TWO LEAF M-A-M concepts??? This is why I suggest the following.
STOP EVERYTHING!!! The first thing you need to do is enlarge your plan so we can actually SEE what it is you are planning on building. Next we need to know the WHOLE SCOPE of what you are trying to do....ie Record loud rock bands? Next, we need to look at virtually every wall, floor, ceiling, door/jamb, window/jamb construction detail to prevent TOTAL TRANSMISSION LOSS FAILURE of the assemblies by virtue misunderstanding of how transmission occurs and how to prevent it.

The only way we can TRULY help you acheive your goal, is to understand what you are planning in TOTAL. Frankly speaking, successful construction of isolation assemblies REQUIRES correct planning and knowing the DETAILS! At this point, my opinion is you are JUMPING THE GUN!! Especially since you know very little about construction. Flying by the seat of your pants may work in music as the consequences are NOT permenant, but for quality studio isolation construction, it's simply asking for isolation failure if it is critical to your recordings. One of the most important aspects of sound transmission is LOW FREQUENCY. What most people don't understand, is it is EXTREMELY difficult to impede its transmission through a structure. When you consider a bass drum can create 110 db at 50 hz or so, and a double wall with two layers of drywall on each leaf only has an STC of 63, and thats at 125hz, it's a no brainer to see that this assembly would NOT stop impact noise from loud drums.


in order to prevent hearing sound from upstairs while recording do i just use insulation in between the ceiling studs?
Click to expand...
That depends on what the level and type of sound it is, where its coming from in relationship to your spaces and how it's transmitting. The other side of the coin is whether you mind loud music propagating upstairs or not. If your space has HVAC ducting common to both the upper and lower floors, this will have to be addressed as well. Actually many things need to addressed. Stairs, doors, those pipes etc etc.

3) what kind of glass should i use to view into the live room?
Click to expand...
If I told you, would it make any difference? For instance, if I told you to use a thickness of glass that meets the same TL as each wall leaf, then increase it to the next increment of thickness, how would you know what that was? Understand? If I simply told you to use 1/2" thick laminated glass, and it was $400 for ONE sheet, and your wall was only two layers of drywall on each leaf, then the wall itself would be the weak link, thereby wasting all the money and time used on the glass. :eek: Thats why I say, ALL ASSEMBLIES MUST MEET THE SAME TRANSMISSION LOSS RATING, or you simply waste your time and budget. Whats the point of building a wall rated for 55 db at 20 hz, and then put in a hollow core door with a rating of 23....comprende? And then, why build anything, if your cieling is a drop ceiling with a TL of .......ahem.......10 at 100hz. well, I think you get the picture. :rolleyes:

Are you going to hang sound stop or a rubber membrain between the rock and the studs?"
Click to expand...
Don't waste your money. The best bang for the buck is gypsum bd.(drywall). And btw, lets don't get into details of this untill you do a thorough ananysis of your plan.

we were just going to mud the dry wall then paint over it. what do you mean by not lining up the 2nd layers with the first?? also, the the sound stop or rubber membrain?
Click to expand...
This EXACTLY illustrates my point. You arn't equipped with enough information to determine what it is you need to do. PERIOD.

Well, I'm outta time for the moment. I suggest you do a plan in MS paint or something which you can post on the bbs at a MUCH LARGER scale. I am an Autocad detailer, so once I can read the dimensions, I can post some drawings showing EXACTLY what to do. I'll be back later to continue.
fitZ


danogarvey
 
I agree with Fitz that you may want to stop and plan a little more first.

The "Membrain" refered to was a thin layer of rubber that comes in rolls.
We used basicly the same thing but it was from a roofing company that we know the owners son.

Some say its a waist, some say its a good thing. Thats why I was wondering if you were thinking of doing that. Our thought when building my friends studio was to do as much as possible (layering) to controll and sound proof.
It's not a rule but some use the Membrain.

Heck he even bought the Auralex U-boats and floated the floor.
I will say though when you walk in and close the studio door you cant hear any outside noise. He lives near a busy intersection near a truck dispatch and a Highway.

-Blaze
 
i definatly get the point rick

and i will wait until everything is squared away
like i said i want this to be as good as possible

you are right i dont know anything right now

but i can answer a couple of your questions

we are a mostly acoustic blues/country band that sometimes plays on electric. we do not have a drummer (other than a friend who plays snare and high hat in the band) and i have no interest in recording any live drums anytime soon

the only concern as far as noise from the upstairs is people walking around
its not a big deal really seeing as when i have guests over its usually NOT during when the band records....there is not any noise from the outside because i live on a very quiet sidestreet. as far as the sound upstairs it doesnt matter, i have no kids or roomates so i can make all the noise i want.


you are right. with my limited knowledge i should wait

but, how do i post a bigger picture so you can see the design? also if you could give me any design suggestions, that would be fucking fantsatic!! because im an amateur as far as building (which im sure ive made very obvious)
but ive spend a lot of time home recording and studying microphones and different techniques
now that ive bought my own house though i want to be able to understand as much as i can about acoustics and construction of a studio as i can


so i appreciate the help...anything else just comment back and ill do what i can

thanks a ton fellas
 
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