Stage Condenser for Vocals?

[ido1957]

there's lots to choose from

Here's a variety of Handheld Condenser mics that could be used on stage. The Neumann is pretty popular.... I'd love to own one.

If you watch the Grand Ole Opry you'll see they use what looks like Shure KSM mics to mic the acoustic guitars.

I've seen a show on TV of a country concert in some auditorium that used all Shure Condensers. Might have been Paul Brandt.

http://www.zzounds.com/a--2676837/cat--Handheld-Condenser-Microphones--2834

 

[prestomation]

you won't use one on any venue I am doing the sound on because condenser Mics on stage are a pain in the ass to keep from making the speakers squeal

a condenser mic picks up everything on the stage, theyre great for a church choir but not for a soloist with instrumental accompanyment. unless you are singing acapella a condenser mic has no place on a sound stage IMHO

Great for the studio but not live performances.

You think so. My band plays fairly regularly at a local church. We play in the basement, it's a very long(proportionally) room with low(15ft?) ceilings. Trust me, we are LOUD. Every time we come in, the first thing the sound guy asks is "Where are the 535's?" He loves 'em

 

[Big Kenny]

We use condensers all the time and we are a loud rock band. 87 Beta and Neumann 105's

 

[Ford Van]

you won't use one on any venue I am doing the sound on because condenser Mics on stage are a pain in the ass to keep from making the speakers squeal

a condenser mic picks up everything on the stage, theyre great for a church choir but not for a soloist with instrumental accompanyment. unless you are singing acapella a condenser mic has no place on a sound stage IMHO

Great for the studio but not live performances.

Wow, have you actually ever DONE live sound? That is a real question, because by the above, it appears you haven't.

I started doing live sound professionally in 1983, and have worked for some fairly large sound companies doing anything from poetry stages to 20k+ festivals. I can tell you with CERTAINTY that condenser mics are WELL USED on stage, and LDC's are used by the more discerning sound men!

I would do LDC's all around a drum kit if they were available! I routinely use them on percussion. I have used them on guitars!

 

[chessrock]

I'm new to all this ...

Under different conditions, I might say "Go ahead," and use some stage condensers if you'd like (Audio Technica, Earthworks, etc.).

But given this part of the quote ... at least for now, I would just get comfortable using some 57s and 58's first. Unless you've got a sound guy you're using who's cool with it all (i.e. if you hired out Sonusman or something ).

.

 

[Roguetitan]

Wow, have you actually ever DONE live sound? That is a real question, because by the above, it appears you haven't.

I started doing live sound professionally in 1983, and have worked for some fairly large sound companies doing anything from poetry stages to 20k+ festivals. I can tell you with CERTAINTY that condenser mics are WELL USED on stage, and LDC's are used by the more discerning sound men!

I would do LDC's all around a drum kit if they were available! I routinely use them on percussion. I have used them on guitars!

I have never worked for any large sound companys but I started doing sound reinforcement in 1981 I have always owned my own equipment and I do not like stage condincer mics for my own personal reasons.
hows does that work for you?

 

[bubbagump]

Well, the question for me would more be who is running sound and what the band is like. We ran KMS105s for a while in our band and they were a bit of a pain in the ass if we were running our own sound as they did feed back easier simply due to the fact that they had so much more high end response. With no one dedicated to the board that could be a problem. However, if we had a good FOH guy, they were always swell. It just depends on what you are doing, who is running the board etc. We found the Audix dynamics to be better for "run your own" as they were easier to control and our singer always wanted the monitors blazing hot. If you can swing a good condensor though, go for it. I had the opportunity to use a KSM9 for a while and those are great mics too.

 

[cusebassman]

Well, the question for me would more be who is running sound and what the band is like. We ran KMS105s for a while in our band and they were a bit of a pain in the ass if we were running our own sound as they did feed back easier simply due to the fact that they had so much more high end response. With no one dedicated to the board that could be a problem. However, if we had a good FOH guy, they were always swell. It just depends on what you are doing, who is running the board etc. We found the Audix dynamics to be better for "run your own" as they were easier to control and our singer always wanted the monitors blazing hot. If you can swing a good condensor though, go for it. I had the opportunity to use a KSM9 for a while and those are great mics too.

I'd say this is your best advice. I've done only small venue live sound (coffee houses, fire halls and the like), and I've used both condenser and dynamic - dynamic is easier to set-and-forget... the condensers will provide only so much sound reinforcement before feedback, and I've found its less than with a dynamic, unless you have someone to run the equipment, at which point they can deal with frequency-specific feedback, etc. I find I just don't usually have the time to tweak all that stuff when I have 15 minutes to set everything up before I or an act I am playing with go on.

 

[Ford Van]

I have never worked for any large sound companys but I started doing sound reinforcement in 1981 I have always owned my own equipment and I do not like stage condincer mics for my own personal reasons.
hows does that work for you?

That works much better.

 

[Roguetitan]

I'd say this is your best advice. I've done only small venue live sound (coffee houses, fire halls and the like), and I've used both condenser and dynamic - dynamic is easier to set-and-forget... the condensers will provide only so much sound reinforcement before feedback, and I've found its less than with a dynamic, unless you have someone to run the equipment, at which point they can deal with frequency-specific feedback, etc. I find I just don't usually have the time to tweak all that stuff when I have 15 minutes to set everything up before I or an act I am playing with go on.

there you go
you said it much better than I did
and in a more comprehensive manner than I did.

my phylosiphy when it comes to Sound reinforcement and audio recording is KISS (Keep It Stoopid Simple)
or in my case Keep It Simple, Stoopid

 

[soundchaser59]

I would think it depends not so much on who is running sound......

but rather who is running the band.....

I've found that a band with no discipline and no production constraints (like a producer telling them to rely on monitors instead of amp volume on stage, or else pack up and get out) is the band that has problems with condensors feeding back on stage.

Pro bands with pro sound use condensors on stage all the time..... near as I can tell, anyway....

On a different note, I would think a beta condensor would be more likely to feedback than a regular hand held condensor like an SM86. Isn't the beta supposed to have a hotter signal? Which is not what you really need anyway if the sound is set up properly. The 87's are hypercardioid mics, much more likely to feedback on stage, imo, than the cardioid 86's. I have an old fashioned SM86 and it seems to work fine on stage. For an extra $30-40 bucks, it's a much better choice than the old crusty SM58, which I believe has been quite overrated for a long, long time now....

 

[Richard Monroe]

I also support AKG C535. KMS105 is a *great* mic, but they don't come cheap. Can you use condensers live? Yes, you can, and lots of people do, but it does have to do with the kind of music you do, the acoustics of the room, the size of the venue, how sophisticated your EQ is, and how good the FOH guy is. Condensers are wonderful in smaller clubs or coffee houses with largely acoustic music. They can be used in larger clubs, but I'd say the larger the venue, and the louder and more layered the music is, the better the board and the soundman have to be.
I've seen David Wilcox use a pair of C535's and sound great. Sarah Watkins of Nickel Creek uses a Baby Bottle on violin in some pretty good sized clubs. I can't tell you a condenser would be my first choice to put in front of Robert Plant for a Led Zeppelin revival at Shea Stadium. But if he was doing his current bluegrass fusion gig with an audience of 100, I might. I use an AKG C414 quite a bit as a live mic for flute, piano, violin, and viola, and I have used C2000B extensively as a live mic for cabs and a variety of hand percussion. Feedback is much more a function of the frequency and direction of sound than the mic that picks it up. Would I use a c1000S for a vocal mic? Not unless I had a gun to my head.-Richie

 

[Roguetitan]

I also support AKG C535. KMS105 is a *great* mic, but they don't come cheap. Can you use condensers live? Yes, you can, and lots of people do, but it does have to do with the kind of music you do, the acoustics of the room, the size of the venue, how sophisticated your EQ is, and how good the FOH guy is. Condensers are wonderful in smaller clubs or coffee houses with largely acoustic music. They can be used in larger clubs, but I'd say the larger the venue, and the louder and more layered the music is, the better the board and the soundman have to be.
I've seen David Wilcox use a pair of C535's and sound great. Sarah Watkins of Nickel Creek uses a Baby Bottle on violin in some pretty good sized clubs. I can't tell you a condenser would be my first choice to put in front of Robert Plant for a Led Zeppelin revival at Shea Stadium. But if he was doing his current bluegrass fusion gig with an audience of 100, I might. I use an AKG C414 quite a bit as a live mic for flute, piano, violin, and viola, and I have used C2000B extensively as a live mic for cabs and a variety of hand percussion. Feedback is much more a function of the frequency and direction of sound than the mic that picks it up. Would I use a c1000S for a vocal mic? Not unless I had a gun to my head.-Richie

Excellent Post...
excellent points...
Most of the gigs I do are loud that is primairily why I hate working with condensers on a sound stage.

I love them for studio work but not live sound.

good thread