Spend my money please :)

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davedrave

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Hello all, huge fan of these forums, apologies that you've heard this question many times before!

I co-run a fledgling studio in dublin, and have slowly built up equipment over time by using the space as a practice room for local bands.

Basically, we need to purchase both an LDC for vocals, and also a setup to record drums.

Our budget is €400 at the moment, and we have been torn from buying a cheap vocal mic, and a better drum mic set, or buying a good vocal mic, and a cheap drum mic set, and everything in between.

Any ideas on how to stretch that money as far as it can go?

I should mention to give you an idea of the quality of brand we aim for (ie not behringer), that we currently have:
-DAW setup (protools)
-ProjectMix I/O
-M-Audio monitors (new, so cant remember model)
-3 seinheisser e816s

the live room has been dampened and is fairly dead in terms of reflections, so i believe a minimal setup on the drums wont work as well as if the room sounded good naturally. Also it is mostly to record your typical young rock band

phew! long thread :) any advice at all is appreciated
 
vocals and drums mics

Hi,

For a vocals mic I love the AT4054. It's also good for recording many other things and can be had between $100 and $200 used.

For a drum kit you need at least three mics and they are likely to cost around $100 each. I chose the ATM-25 and two Pro37s.

Yes I like Audio Technica mics.

Many recommend the Naiant's for drum overheads. I use mine for acoustic guitar, piano, and other things and recommend them as well but I haven't used them as overheads. They are a little bit cheaper than the Pro 37s.

Adding an SM57 for a snare mic will also get you a good cabinet mic.

To give you some idea of the versatility of the ATM-25 I had it on a kick drum at the bandshell and when it came to The Mudcats part of the show I just put it on another stand and sang through it. It sounded great too.

All the mics mentioned are very versatile which should be important to someone setting up a studio on a small budget.

I'm not sure how many dollars 400 pounds is but I think I'm in your ballpark.

Thanks,

Hairy Larry
 
I am a fan of SE electronics and Studio Projects also makes good mics for vocals. For drums, you could look at a drum mic kit from CAD. The Studio Projects B1 or B3 are good budget vocal mics in my experience.
 
hmm should have mentioned id be looking to buy from thomann.de

the at4054 isnt in thomann, and its not an LDC either is it?
neither is the atm25 :(

we have decided to try for 2 sdc for overheads, and an ldc for vocals for now

yes i was considering the studio projects b1, or a rode nt1-a, but as far as i remember neither have switchable patterns, which is im told what we need :rolleyes:

i saw the rode nt2a, but it seems a bit pricey, would there be a cheaper mic with switchable patterns?

also tempted by rode nt5 for the 2 overheads. any thoughts on those or more importantly is there a cheaper alternative i should be considering?

thanks for the input guys :-)
 
Go to pawn shops and buy up all the Shure SM57s you can get...well enough to plug in to all your inputs...then get one good Kick mic...pair of SDC...then a good LDC.

Id stick with Shure...AKG...or AT for the Kick...SDC's and the LDC.
 
Don't cut corners on the drum mics. Save once, buy twice. Get yourself a good pair of SDCs, e.g. a pair of MK-012 cardioids. That'll probably cost you about 250 EUR for the pair, I think. You didn't say where in Europe you are, but I can read French, so I picked that store as an example. :D

http://cgi.ebay.fr/Stereopaire-de-M...66:2|39:1|72:1526|240:1308|301:1|293:1|294:50

Get a D112 (used if you can find one):

http://cgi.ebay.fr/AKG-D112-D-112-N...3.l1177&_trkparms=240:1318|301:1|293:1|294:50

And you have about a hundred Euros left. Spend it on a usable vocal mic. You should be able to get a CAD M179 for that.

http://cgi.ebay.fr/CAD-M179-Studio-...3.l1177&_trkparms=240:1318|301:1|293:1|294:50

You might want to drop a few bucks on top of that for some inexpensive dynamics for your toms; Thomann has some SM58 knock-offs that should be usable:

http://www.thomann.de/index.html?partner_id=97926&page=fr/superlux_eco_88.htm
 
have seen some top studios using the Shure 58 beta and the Shure 57 for recording sessions... they choose it sometimes above the Neumann's or AKG's...
what sometimes is good for live shows can be also good for recording sessions... at least that what my mentor told me a long time ago... hahaha :cool:
all depends on what kind of sound you finally want archive...

a 58 beta cost about $160 or 110 Euros...
add a nice AKG D112 ($199 or 125 Euros) as dgatwood mentioned for the bass...
 
At 4054

davedrave,

The AT 4054 is an LDC. Similar to and AT 4050 but in a stage case.

But it's out of production. You'll have to buy used.

The 4055 is the same mic but without the rolled off bass response.

Thanks,

Hairy Larry

davedrave said:
hmm should have mentioned id be looking to buy from thomann.de

the at4054 isnt in thomann, and its not an LDC either is it?
neither is the atm25 :(

we have decided to try for 2 sdc for overheads, and an ldc for vocals for now

yes i was considering the studio projects b1, or a rode nt1-a, but as far as i remember neither have switchable patterns, which is im told what we need :rolleyes:

i saw the rode nt2a, but it seems a bit pricey, would there be a cheaper mic with switchable patterns?

also tempted by rode nt5 for the 2 overheads. any thoughts on those or more importantly is there a cheaper alternative i should be considering?

thanks for the input guys :-)
Click to expand...
 
Given that you are talking pounds Sterling, I'll presume you mean Dublin, Ireland. We have a quaint fashion here in the U.S., of naming places after the Old World homes of settlers, so we have a Dublin in nearly every state. At the current exchange rate of 1.00=1.65, your 400 pounds=$660 U.S. This will help people to give you better advice. So far, I like Dgatwood's suggestions. Anglocentrically speaking, you will get the best tax breaks on mics made in The British Commonwealth, which suggests Rode (Australia) and CAD (Canada). Many of the U.S. mics, I bet, are frightfully dear in the UK or The Republic of Ireland.

Of course, I have no idea what prices are like for you, but here, $660 would almost exactly buy a pair of Rode NT5's and a Rode NT1a. I think you would do better, right now, to settle for a cardioid vocal mic, and save your shillings for a better multi-pattern mic down the road, such as AKG C414XLS or Rode K2. The multiple patterns have some useful studio applications, particularly figure-of-eight for mid-side stereo mic'ing, but 95% of the time, you'll use it as a cardioid mic. The only cheap multi-pattern condenser I can recommend is CAD M179, but I would be more likely to use it as an instrument and utility mic than as a main vocal mic.

Note that lots of people suggest an inexpensive dynamic mic for cabs, snare drum, and as an auxiliary mic. I'll bet that in Europe, used SM57's are farther between and more expensive than here in the U.S. However, there are likely to be a lot of older used AKG dynamics not as commonly known here. Look for a used AKG D690 or D770. Either one is a good match for an SM57. Another good alternative would be Sennheiser e835. Some other mics to consider as your cabinet increases:

Sennheiser MD421- More pricey than the above dynamics, and simply better. It is the best European equivalent to the Shure SM-7, a dynamic radio broadcast mic favored for vocals and almost anything where a dynamic mic is appropriate.

AKG D112 or (better) the older and discontinued D12- A dedicated low frequency mic, good for kick drum, stand-up bass, Djembe, the backs of open guitar cabs, bass cabs.

Rode NTK (cardioid only) or K2 (multipattern)- Mid-priced, relatively clean tube (valve) mics, good for pop/rock/blues/alternative/punk/R&B vocals, and for a wide variety of instruments.

AKG C2000B- An underrated small diaphragm mic in a larger housing. Good on many vocalists, very good on toms, hand percussion, or as an overhead in pairs, truly excellent on guitar cabs. It's an inexpensive utility condenser mic.

Oktava MK 319- A cheap Russian LDC that rocks on female vocals in particular

Oktava MK012 (same as MC012)- watch out for Chinese copies, there are online sources that will help you to tell the difference. A pencil mic, somewhat darker and more colored than NT5, they are not as good for accurate stereo mic'ing (say- a string ensemble), but they rock as rock overheads, and are good as a spot instument on strings and some acoustic guitars. They make a LOMO large diaphragm capsule for it also, which makes it into a pretty good vocal mic. There is also a figure-of-eight head available for it, but I've never heard it. The MC012's also can be fitted with omnidirectional or hypercardioid capsules.

That's the first stuff that comes to mind. Best of luck in your endeavor.-Richie
 
Richard Monroe said:
Oktava MK012 (same as MC012)- watch out for Chinese copies, there are online sources that will help you to tell the difference. A pencil mic, somewhat darker and more colored than NT5, they are not as good for accurate stereo mic'ing (say- a string ensemble), but they rock as rock overheads, and are good as a spot instument on strings and some acoustic guitars.
Click to expand...

IMHO, they're decent for stereo recording. That's what overheads are, after all. They'd be better for things like strings if their high frequency response were a little more open, so it's not a bad idea to send them off to Oktavamod or Marik or somebody to mod them at some point. That said, doing so puts you into another price category. :)

I've heard good things about the NT5 stock, but again, you're in a different price category. They're $430 for a pair (at least here in the U.S.), which is pretty much the entire specified 400 EUR budget (that's Euros, €, not Pounds, £).
 
Oops- Euro's. Thanks, Dgatwood. That makes the order pretty stiff. That's about $558.00 U.S.
Well, I've got a set of MC012's, and although I love them for certain applications, I prefer Studio Progects C4's or NT5's for all-purpose stereo mic'ing in that price range. I think all Oktavas just don't all sound the same, though. Mine are very colored, and that is what I like, and don't like about them. Quality control was always a little wonky on Oktava mic's, and I bet that 2 pairs can sound very different. I've certainly heard 2 MK319's that you would never guess are the same model. They both sound good, though, in their own way. My girlfriend's is bright and clear, almost like a U87ai. Mine is dark as the ace of spades, like an AKG Solidtube. What the hell? For $50, it's one of the best mics I ever bought. Sorry about misreading the odd Eurosquiggles.-Richie
 
The 012s are dark, that's a definite. I can't think of any mics that do stereo work better in that price range, though.... The Chinese SDCs I've used really suck at it....

Okay, to be fair, I'm comparing used Oktava prices to new prices on the other stuff. Maybe you can get used C4s or NT5s down in the same price range.
 
I just spent $250 for a pair of SM81s...I havent got to give them a good try yet...but I know they work fine....check into a pair of those.
 
davedrave said:
Our budget is €400 at the moment, and we have been torn from buying a cheap vocal mic, and a better drum mic set, or buying a good vocal mic, and a cheap drum mic set, and everything in between.
Click to expand...

this is aprox. $558.24 USD at the current time (if ne one wanted to know)

my honest opinion is to sit back and think of where you'll need it more. depending on the genre u might need better vox and roomier drums

i mean punk rock could survive on room mics for drums

But if you need better sounding drums then go with spending the money on drum mics and use a tom mic on vox or an sm57 on screamo sometimes.

you can get away with it till you get a nicer mic

this is HIGHLY debatable but here is my idea of a good drum lineup:

Sennheiser MD421-MK II on toms $350
or MXL 990 $100 (comes with 991)

beta 52A on bass $150

Sure SM57 on snair $100

MXL 991 on overheads $100

depending on the amount of toms it could cost you anywhere from $450 to $1200+ (322 euro - 859+) if you get MXL 990/991 pack its 100 bucks. 200 bucks gets you 2 tom mics and 2 OH


keep in mind u need input room aswell
 
I can't imagine the MXL 991 being usable for overheads unless you use them as a spaced pair. It's basically an omni just like all the other crappy Chinese SDCs.

991polar.gif


Compare that with the MK-012:

mk012card_krug.gif
 
ya well i mean i got away with it a couple times.

i was thinking along the lines of money

i use a pair of Shure KSM137/SL

but ya OH mics should always be a pair. they're purpose is stereo imaging of the drum set
 
thanks so much guys, some great suggestions here.

we dont want to skimp on the drums, id be surprised if we record ANY punk bands tbh

still deliberating, any suggestions are still welcome :)
 
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