Speeding up guitar parts

  • Thread starter Thread starter Superhuman
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Superhuman

Shagaholic
Forget about the "cheating" element to it (Hendrix, Becker and Malmsteen are all supposed to have done it on certain parts) but...

Has anyone experience in recording very complex guitar parts by drop-tuning a tone or semi-tone, recording onto analogue tape at say 120bpm, then speeding the tape up to say 130bpm (or whatever the increase in speed will raise the pitch by the equivilant tone difference), then transfering the sped up 'dry' lick to digital and dropping into the mix?

I've heard that is done quite often but would this affect the sound quality of the guitar part? I know it would sound terrible if done digitally but would the fact that it is on analogue tape eliminate the adverse effects?

The reason I am asking is that I have a session in a big studio in a few weeks with a master engineer. I can play these parts live without any difficulty but for recording you need 100% accuracy on every single note (instrumental neoclassical shred - extreme speed and difficulty). Even though I have been playing for nearly 15 years the reality of it is that it would take in excess of 100 takes for some sequences to get 100% accuracy and time=money X frustration = a waste of a good opportunity.

Any suggestions (besides practise more or try playing slower!)?

Thanks guys
 
That kind of bums me out man - but to each his own.

Ya you could do that - you could do it digitally too - there are lots of programs that do it really well - Melodyne for example.

But I think you should practise more or try playing slower!

But who am I to blow against the wind - I often step record which is kinda cheating.

You may get some artifacts by slowing it down - I guess it depends on your system.

Good luck.
 
I know what you mean about the cheating thing too, I would only be talking about one or two runs in a mix of about a hundred or so. Time is the main problem. Step recording is one way around it but that's pretty much the same thing as far as the cheating thing goes. Also, step recording sounds unnatural, impossible to get legatto sounding unbroken.
As far as the cheating thing goes, I don't care if a certain piece of 8 finger tapping was slowed down a bit anyway, it's the actual music and how it sounds rather than the guy playing it that interests me. As I said, I've been playing for around 15 years and have reached my 'technical' plateau, it would be a shame having to slow down a whole track just to accomodate one or two runs when everything else sounds right at the current tempo.
Removing the offending licks is not an option, they sounds way too cool! You wouldnt notice any mistakes if they were played live but repeat listening on a cd would expose one or two bum notes and that would end up driving me insane!
 
Is it a note for note thing or is there some improv? You could punch in the tricky part - difficult but not impossible.
 
It's all note for note for these particular parts, that's whats makes them so difficult. I'll definitely try punching in if I can't get them in the first few takes. The other alternative which I dislike the most is editing in ProTools, eg playing it as best as posible then applying a bit of "nip n' tuck". The problem with that is the music becomes less organic and more like midi. Thanks for the feedback ESP, it's an interesting one to get sorted though as I'm sure it would be a handy technique to add to the portfolio of recording tricks.
 
I think it would give an unatural sound as opposed to sounding like fast playing.
 
While I have never done this, I've played with guys who would "play the best they could" in the studio, and then doctor it up with a little delay or slur it with some chorus/flange.

Really, the only way to do it right is to........well,...........do it right. ;)
 
Just keep at it...you can easily play that extra 10bpm faster if you push yourself. Most of the time when I make a tune its 10-20bpm faster than I think I can play, but I just push myself harder and keep at it. Its a good way to improve your ability....
 
Any suggestions (besides practise more or try playing slower!)?
Click to expand...

Unfortunately you know that this is the right answer. Try punching in the offending parts. Sometimes its easier to nail something when you are focusing on just one run. If you are unable to nail it doing punches then it probably shouldn't be in the song.
At any rate I would much rather hear something played slowly and well executed rather than something ultra fast that is sloppy and all over the place. Just my 2 cents.
 
From speaking to the master engineer at the studio, he said that Hendrix used to slow difficult parts down on analogue tape then speed them up slightly. Even if you look at big bands like Metallica, every single chop, strum and pick is edited through ProTools. I'm not a big fan of that method as the odd imperfection sounds good to my ear but if a very difficult collection of notes sounds really cool at a certain speed, why leave them out of a piece of music rather than use the technology available to get them right?
I suppose most guitarists view music in a competitive way with regard to ability rather than purely enjoying the sonic element. Look at midi programmed stuff, that can sound amazing when done right even though a human programs it rather than performs it.... Or even look at the masters like Mozart or Bach, they wrote the bulk of their music but didnt actually perform it on any instruemnt yet they are famous, not the violinists or cellists etc.

Anyway, it makes an interesting debate but the questions remains:-) does a sample recorded onto analgue tape lose quality or degrade when slightly sped up (as opposed to a digital file being sped up which obviously sounds terrible)?
 
It's probably sonically obvious after you speed it up a few BPM. Especially if there's any slurring or vibrato going on in the passage.

It makes an interesting effect, though. I remember the solo in Cream's "Those Were the Days" from Wheels of Fire has that done to it (obviously not through digital means, of course). It certainly wasn't because EC couldn't play the part, it's not a hard part (it was probably harder for him to play it slower than normal, in fact). It gives it a very interesting texture -- the vibrato is of course unnaturally fast.
 
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