Speck/Demeter/JHardy/GR/ADesign/API

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JTC111

JTC111

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So I’ve got a list of pres that I’m considering (primary duties will be recording acoustic guitar and vocals). I got some great info and some recorded samples from this site and from The Listening Sessions site, but I’ve done quite a bit of other research as well.

So here’s what’s on the list so far (and these are in no particular order):
Speck 5.0
Demeter HXM-1
Demeter VTMP-2C
John Hardy M-1
Great River MP-2NV
A-Designs Pacifica
A-Designs MP-2A

But the pre that blows me away more than any of those is the API 528. I just don’t think I can get my hands on any. Mercenary Audio sells the 512B but I have no idea how the sound compares to the 528.

If anyone has had any experiences, good or bad, with any of these, I'd love to hear about it.

Jim
 
I have a Pacifica and can attest to the huge frequency response. It's a killer mic pre!
 
Excuse my ignorance on this point, but how do you set the gain level on the Pacifica without any kind of meter? Do you have to do it by ear alone?
 
JTC111 said:
Excuse my ignorance on this point, but how do you set the gain level on the Pacifica without any kind of meter? Do you have to do it by ear alone?
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Your recording device should have an input meter and possibly your A/D converter. You should always use your ears to make sure your gain levels give you the tones that you are looking and listen for any clipping. Just because you don't see clips metered somewhere does not mean it does not happen.
 
chances are that those pres will have more headroom than your a/d converters
 
Very few preamps have meters. If anything, they are most likely to have a simple overload indicator. You read the level on your recording device, not the preamp.
 
Fishmed_Returns said:
Your recording device should have an input meter and possibly your A/D converter. You should always use your ears to make sure your gain levels give you the tones that you are looking and listen for any clipping. Just because you don't see clips metered somewhere does not mean it does not happen.
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Yes, there are meters elsewhere in the chain but I'd still be a lot more comfortable being able to eyeball it even if it's not 100%. If for no other reasons, it'll save me a lot of time and a lot of frustration. I've found it's fairly difficult to record myself on guitar as there are several things that I have to keep track of at the same time. I don't want to add having to listen for clipping to the list. It just seems it would be much easier for me, if I could have a meter to help me dial in near the right amount of gain and then do some minor tweaking rather than having to go through a series of playbacks hunting for it.
 
SonicAlbert said:
Very few preamps have meters. If anything, they are most likely to have a simple overload indicator. You read the level on your recording device, not the preamp.
Click to expand...

It happened entirely by chance, but every pre I have on my list of possibles has some kind of meter except the Pacifica. And honestly, as I narrow it down, that's probably going to be the thing that knocks the Pacifica off my list. I just don't think I have enough experience doing this to not have a meter.
 
JTC111 said:
This is all still fairly new to me. Can you explain what you mean?
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those pres will handle more gain w/out distorting/clipping than your converters will. you can monitor from your recorder (hardware or software meters) and make sure it doesn't clip there. pushing preamps (or compressors) in the analog realm a little bit hard can actually sound awesome-- a little gritty or a touch distorted, so you can trust your ears there. clipping your a/d converters will likely sound terrible, so you'll want to make sure there's no overs there.
 
JTC111 said:
This is all still fairly new to me. Can you explain what you mean?
Click to expand...

The input of the AD convertor would have clipped long before the mic pre got to the volume level of clipping itself.
 
JTC111 said:
It happened entirely by chance, but every pre I have on my list of possibles has some kind of meter except the Pacifica. And honestly, as I narrow it down, that's probably going to be the thing that knocks the Pacifica off my list. I just don't think I have enough experience doing this to not have a meter.
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Just remember that you will be metering off the recording device. That's where you want to meter anyway, since that tells you the actual level that is being recorded. But it certainly is nice to see the level on the preamp itself.

On your list I like the John Hardy. And the GR will give you a couple different sounds, with its switchable "iron".
 
I just discovered something that might make this whole thing easy: the VPR Alliance. Apparently, a bunch of companies have either already made or are committed to making modules that fit the API 500 series rack. I found a list of the companies on the API site. In addition to API, these companies have signed on:
A-Designs
Avedis Audio
Buzz Audio
Daking Audio
Great River Electronics
Speck Electronics
Rupert Neve Designs
Shadow Hills Industries

Why settle for one unit when I can have 5 from my list at a much lower cost?
Any thoughts on this idea?

Jim
 
While metering on the pre may be nice, I'd rather them use the cost that could be used in metering for better circuit design, better components, etc. The input metering to the recording device would seem to be the most important place to monitor.
 
JTC111 said:
I just discovered something that might make this whole thing easy: the VPR Alliance. Apparently, a bunch of companies have either already made or are committed to making modules that fit the API 500 series rack. I found a list of the companies on the API site. In addition to API, these companies have signed on:
A-Designs
Avedis Audio
Buzz Audio
Daking Audio
Great River Electronics
Speck Electronics
Rupert Neve Designs
Shadow Hills Industries

Why settle for one unit when I can have 5 from my list at a much lower cost?
Any thoughts on this idea?

Jim
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Careful now, you will make out on cost in certain circumstances - typically with a full lunch box so the cost of the box and power supply are spread over the maximum number of pres. But, in some circumstances it's still cheaper to buy a dedicated unit. For example, the cost of an API 3124 (with 4 pres) is approximately $2400 (or $600 a channel). The cost of an API lunch box and 4 API 512c pres is approximately $3125 or $781 a channel. Even if you added two more pres to fill the box, the cost per channel would be $745.

And some pres, like the Great River, take up 2 slots so you have fewer pres in your box to spread the box and power supply cost over.

What the 500 series will do is give lots of choices in a relatively portable structure, without necessarily having to commit to buying two channels of something when you really only want one. Buying used will help on the cost side as well. I have three lunch boxes, all bought used with an average cost of $350 each. I have 4 pres (2 API, one P-1 and a Purple Biz). The APIs were bought used for @$600 each and I've seen them go for less. The P-1 was bought on the Thanksgiving roll-out direct from A-Designs and cost me $550. I traded an A-Designs Red pre (also bought for $550 on the roll-out) for the Purple Biz. I've also got a pair of API 550b EQs and one API 525 Comp. All bought used. I'm waiting for the new Purple comp and pres to become available. Used gear prices may make the 500 series more cost competitive per channel compared to dedicated units, but depending on what you want, you should still cost it out. Something to think about if you go that way.
 
Pohaku, there are still places that will do a free lunch box if you order 4 modules. If you subtract the Lunchbox cost, then the price per channel ends up pretty close to the same for the API's. Also, the API is on e of the few exceptions where the price per channel ratio comes out in favor of the rackmount version. In the case of the Great Rivers for example, it actually comes out to be about $200 cheaper to buy a lunchbox and 2 modules than the rackmount version.
 
vintage king has that deal.
there are some awesome 500 series only modules too-- i'm loving the purple action compressor!
 
xstatic said:
Pohaku, there are still places that will do a free lunch box if you order 4 modules. If you subtract the Lunchbox cost, then the price per channel ends up pretty close to the same for the API's. Also, the API is on e of the few exceptions where the price per channel ratio comes out in favor of the rackmount version. In the case of the Great Rivers for example, it actually comes out to be about $200 cheaper to buy a lunchbox and 2 modules than the rackmount version.
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True, although if you do the deal at Vintage King, you are still paying $300 more for just the 4 512c modules than the 3124 - even without the cost of the lunchbox. It might be less of a concern if you were going to pick up some 550b modules and 2 pre modules since you pretty much have to commit to the lunchbox for the EQ modules - no other way to use them (except in an API console).

It certainly depends on what gear you are looking at getting. The Great River is one of the better deals in that regard compared to the regular rack mount unit. And certainly once you've committed to the format, buying an extra module of something seems less painful later on. I've looked at GR, as a single channel is $750 and I already have the lunch box. Cheaper than buying a stand alone single channel unit. Still, depending on what you are looking at buying, you should put pencil to paper. I was just trying to temper what appeared to be "irrational exuberance" on the part of the OP on discovering the 500 format.:D
 
kojdogg said:
vintage king has that deal.
there are some awesome 500 series only modules too-- i'm loving the purple action compressor!
Click to expand...

So, tell me more. I'm considering that unit as well. Anything you can compare it to? Does it sing and dance?
 
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