Hardy, ADesigns, Demeter, Wunder, Phoenix Audio - What don't you like?

[JTC111]

It does not have to be a tube unit to take advantages of different stages in the preamp. The Great River for example... It just adds a little flexibility to the range of what you can do with many of the preamps by having an output attenuator.

True, but then there are many quality preamps that don't have an output attenuator: John Hardy, the Pacifica, API 512, Wunder PAFour, etc.

I'm making a chart to try to keep track of all the information on each pre I'm considering so I can see that good and the bad all in once place. Going on the presumption that I like the sound of all of these units, here's what I'm coming up with so far, and I think they're in the order of preference; although the Hardy and Demeter are probably even in my head. The MP-2A gets to the top because of the 4 tone options. I thought that might come in handy considering I won't be buying a second dual-pre any time soon.

ADesigns MP-2A
Pros - tubes, noise -128, 4 tone options,
Cons - VU meter, no output attenuator

John Hardy M2
Pros - price ($1800), noise -129, mic input 20 ohm button, 20-light LED meter
Cons - no output attenuator

Demeter VTMP-2C
Pros - tubes, noise -125, output attenuator, 10-light LED meter
Cons -

Wunder PAFour
Pros - 4 inputs,
Cons - no output attenuator, 2-light LED meter
*I can't find specs for this unit online so I wrote to Wunder yesterday requesting them.

Phoenix Audio DRS-2
Pros - output attenuator, 70db gain, XLR inputs on front panel
Cons -noise -90, two-light LED meter

 

[kojdogg]

have you considered contacting a dealer like mercenary, front end, atlas, high profile, etc. that will let you try one or several pres out for free as long as you put a credit card down as security (obviously you won't want to practice place kicking with them or anything like that)? specs don't tell the whole story.

 

[bigtoe]

"John Hardy M2
Pros - price ($1800), noise -129, mic input 20 ohm button, 20-light LED meter
Cons - no output attenuator"

actually your 20 ohm button can be a pad, instead of the 20 ohm button.

i noted in another thread about you being concerned about noise...the hardy is dead quiet even with max gain.

if you don't have something clean, like the hardy - i'd go for it or something like it. you can always add color...you cannot take it away as easy.

not much bad to say about it tho...

have fun shoppin'...at the level you're going for it sounds like you won't go wrong whatever you pick so just have fun spending...

Mike

 

[xstatic]

There definately are a lot of preamps out there without output attenuators. However, there are also a lot that do have them. Most of your "colored" sounding preamps have them. This way you can, at least to some extent, control how much of that color or character you are after. It's really a matter of choice and preference. Personally, I like having the output attenuator because it increases the options and capabilities of the equipment I have. That being said, I always would not write off a preamp if it didn't have an output attenuator. Each different pre has its own vibe and is designed in certian ways for certain intentions. I have also heard many people complain that adding something like the Atty changed the sound in a way they weren't expecting. Like I said though, many of us view the same things in different ways. Personally, I prefer that the attenuator is built right ion to the unit. This means it functions at a certain point in the signal chain, which is often before certain transformers and other circuits. An aftermarket attenuator only affects the signal after all the integrated electronics. This can be a good thing, or a bad thing, depends on what your preferences are. Also, with a built in attenuator you usually get a wider more usable range as well as still having the choice to leave it in its nulled position should you want to use an aftermarket attenuator.

 

[JTC111]

"John Hardy M2
Pros - price ($1800), noise -129, mic input 20 ohm button, 20-light LED meter
Cons - no output attenuator"

actually your 20 ohm button can be a pad, instead of the 20 ohm button.
Mike

Yeah, but I'd most likely opt for the 20 ohm option. My TwinTrak (don't laugh... the new pre will replace that one) has a variable impedence/ohm knob and it makes a big difference on some mics. So it would be nice to have that lower ohm option.

 

[JTC111]

There definately are a lot of preamps out there without output attenuators. However, there are also a lot that do have them. Most of your "colored" sounding preamps have them. This way you can, at least to some extent, control how much of that color or character you are after.

Okay, now I get it. I wasn't quite understanding this until you put it that way. Thanks.

With every new thing I learn here, the decision becomes more difficult.

 

[bigtoe]

Yeah, but I'd most likely opt for the 20 ohm option. My TwinTrak (don't laugh... the new pre will replace that one) has a variable impedence/ohm knob and it makes a big difference on some mics. So it would be nice to have that lower ohm option.

ah. i don't know what the twin track is...i'm sure it's fine. too much is made of gear.

the hardy is a phenomenal unit whatever option. don't cross it off your short list until you try it...

ps - regarding your decision, until you use them for a while, you could probably buy any of your units listed and be happy and then eventually find a "need" for something else...that's just the way it goes.

Mike

 

[JTC111]

ah. i don't know what the twin track is...i'm sure it's fine. too much is made of gear.

the hardy is a phenomenal unit whatever option. don't cross it off your short list until you try it...

I know it is, or it wouldn't be on my short list. But in the end, there can be only one.

ps - regarding your decision, until you use them for a while, you could probably buy any of your units listed and be happy and then eventually find a "need" for something else...that's just the way it goes.

Mike

That had occured to me. And since I won't have anything of comparable quality to compare it to, even if I don't pick the pre that I would've liked best had I had time to play with them all, I'll be delightfully oblivious to that fact.

Of course there's always the danger that I become a mic pre whore. I've known one or two of those in my time.

 

[bigtoe]

well you have to start somewhere. you don't HAVE a reference of next level goodness. this next piece will be it.

when i was starting to buy the good shit in 1995 i chose Hardy as my reference pre...to be honest there weren't the slew of choices there are today...though the mic pre thing was starting to get big then.

getting to know the Hardy helped me distinguish what i would like to hear more or less of on certain sources as it is so clean. I picked up a couple Neves and then a couple APIs and a couple Dakings i could hear what they were doing as opposed to the Hardy which i believe does very little to the sound in comparison...and i mean that in a very good way. If i wanted less top from the guitar tracks - neve. If i wanted to distinguish my vocals from the overheads that i used the hardy's on - the API's helped a lot. Etc.

i could have very easily picked the Neve first or API and been fine. just pick and roll from there.

PS - i just went to Atlas to check out what pres were more expensive than the Hardy. Jeebus. I'm sure they're worth it but it makes the Hardy way more of a bargain.

Mike

 

[JTC111]

I decided to go with the Demeter VTMP-2C. I just placed the order and I should have it by next Friday. Gotta make a little room in the rack!