Speaker gurus - I need your input... Alnico Blue vs Greenback?

pikingrin

what is this?
I got a Vox AC-15 last year, it's the TVBC model with the blue/cream tolex if that makes a difference, that came with a Celestion G12M speaker in it - the greenback. I really enjoy the amp, it sounds great and all, but I'm wondering what I'm missing out on without the Alnico Blue speaker that comes in other models. The blues are more expensive in general, which explains the added cost of getting them stock in the amp... But, would it be an upgrade that's worth the cost?
 
Is it worth the cost? Not in my opinion. Greenbacks don't suck. Alnico Blues are awesome, but are they double the price awesome over a Greenback? Not to me. If you had some budget POS Celestion in there I'd say do it. But since you have a Greenback, maybe not so fast.
 
Miro - I've heard that, too...but is there a quantifiable difference between the two? The frequency ranges are spec'd as the same (75hz-5khz) but is there some magic in the magnet that makes them sound so much different?

Greg - Yeah, it's a greenback. And it does sound good; I may give it some time...that $280 price tag on a single speaker might be a recipe for buyer's remorse in a hurry. Unless it's really that much better. I really wanted to pick your brain on this, Greg, seems like I've seen quite a few of your posts talking about speakers in those Marshall cabs. You and Miner talking about changing speakers out kind of planted the seed to try it out on the Vox.

So riddle me this...say I do ever decide to change out a speaker in one of my amps. Is there an inverse relationship between a speaker's rated power handling and the power output of an amp? In other words, if I put a 15 watt speaker and a 65 watt speaker into a cabinet, and wire them each up individually, will I get more or less output from one versus the other from a 15 watt amp? There are probably other variables that I'm not aware of so let's just assume that all else is equal... My assumption is that a higher rated speaker produces less volume with less wattage flowing to it, which may be obvious, just trying to check my logic I guess.
 
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While the frequency range may be spec'd the same...they don't sound the same, and the magnet does make a difference.

That's not to say you can't try some other speakers, including the Greenback...I mean, there are probably more than a few that would sound OK in that amp, it's just that the Blue will give you THE sound that is mostly associated with that amp.
Of course...you really need to try them to hear their differences. You won't get a good comparison based on opinions and sound clips.

One thing you can be sure of...it's not hard to sell a Blue on eBay if you don't like it.
If you want a slightly less expensive alternative...you have the Weber Blue for about $210 or the WGS Black & Blue for about $225...both are meant to be copies, and some may even like those better than the Cessation.

https://wgs4.com/BnB

Alnico Blue Dog
 
So riddle me this...say I do ever decide to change out a speaker in one of my amps. Is there an inverse relationship between a speaker's rated power handling and the power output of an amp? In other words, if I put a 15 watt speaker and a 65 watt speaker into a cabinet, and wire them each up individually, will I get more or less output from one versus the other from a 15 watt amp? There are probably other variables that I'm not aware of so let's just assume that all else is equal... My assumption is that a higher rated speaker produces less volume with less wattage flowing to it, which may be obvious, just trying to check my logic I guess.

The wattage rating of a speaker doesn't have much to do with the perceived volume of a speaker. A higher watt speaker can be louder because you can feed more power to it, but from the same amp it's not going to matter. For example...I have two speakers of the same wattage. A G12-65 and a Vintage 30. Both 65 watts. The Vintage 30 is noticeably louder than the G12-65 with all else being same. Same guitar, same amp, same settings, the V30 pumps out more volume. There are many variables like magnet weight, cone design, but the most important variable for loudness is the speaker's sensitivity. Sensitivity is a relative measurement used by manufacturers to comparitively gauge how loud a speaker is at a given wattage and measurement point. This is generally one watt measured at one meter away. If you look at the sensitivity ratings of speakers, you'll see them listed in db. In my example the G12-65 is rated at 96db, the Vintage 30 is 100db. And you can hear that difference. The Vintage 30 is considerably louder. Sensitivity is not the same as efficiency, but an efficient speaker will have a higher sensitivity rating due to it being more efficient. A speaker's efficiency is generally dependent on how efficiently it turns it's power input into sound instead of heat.

So what does all this mean? It means that speaker wattage doesn't much matter for loudness. The speaker's sensitivity is what matters. And how does sensitivity matter? If you're mixing two different speakers in the same cab, the louder speaker can overpower the speaker with lower sensitivity. Some people don't care, but for me, it drives me crazy. I like to mix speakers, but I make sure the speakers will play nice together.

And of course, the impedances have to match. You have to keep the ohm ratings the same among the speakers.

And lastly, the cab's new wattage rating. When mixing various wattage speakers, your lowest rated speakers determine the wattage handling of the cab. For example, if you have a 2x12 with a Greenback and a Vintage 30, even though the V30 is a 65 watt speaker, the cab's rating will only bee 50 watts. Why? The Greenback is the "weak link" at only 25 watts. You multiply the number of speakers by the lowest speaker's wattage. In this case, 2 speakers x 25 watts (Greenback) = 50 watts.
 
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