SPDIF Questions

[ido1957]

Looking into computer recording and "mixing in the box" (currently adat). I have a couple of SPDIF hardware pieces that I would like to continue using.
1) Reverb unit PCM80 2) Compressor Triple C

- SONAR 6 LE
- USB interface (like an EDIROL UA-101)
- how would you work these two in when mixing?
- can you apply reverb to the mix tracks individually, send it to a separate track, save the track, then apply compressor as I mix down?
- would you daisy chain these things using SPDIF? I guess I could fiddle with the reverb wet/dry setting but I'd rather do an aux send with the reverb to a separate track like I do now. Or do I have to connect one SPDIF, apply it, then switch the SPDIF to the other, apply it etc. patch bay style...

Right now I apply reverb to the individual tracks using aux send back to a channel and mix everything down with compressor on the main inserts.

I'm not looking into plugins yet. I'd like to keep using the hardware units if possible.

Let me know what you think....

 

[SonicAlbert]

Theoretically, you should be able to daisy chain those units just fine.

However, what you really need is an audio interface that has enough SPDIF I/O or enough analog I/O to handle all the hardware you want to use simultaneously. Without having to repatch constantly or daisy chain.

 

[mixsit]

I run an 80 and 90 routed on analog sends and returns in my Sonar templates. Since you seem to have plenty of analog i/o but no SPDIF you could try that.
Once you have the verb tracks recorded back into the project the round-trip result is slightly offset, sometimes I'll compensate a bit but generally not (my buffer is usually 5.8ms).

SPDIF might be a smidge less delay round trip.

- can you apply reverb to the mix tracks individually, send it to a separate track, save the track, then apply compressor as I mix down?
- would you daisy chain these things using SPDIF? I guess I could fiddle with the reverb wet/dry setting but I'd rather do an aux send

I don't know about the daisy chain -how that whould fit in exactly, just looking at the verb/effects steps seperate from dealing with a comp on the master- But yes, you'd do aux sends like normal, track the verb 100% wet and blend as needed like usual. I'll generally do a pair for the drum verbs, then pairs for other tracks as needed, blend and such' for the final mix.

 

[Farview]

You would probably want to go analog. The PCM80 only works at 48k, so you wouldn't be able to do a 44.1k (88.2k, 96k) session and have it hooked up without the world coming to an end. Dealing with the clocking issues that come up when you are trying to do stuff like this is never worth it. imo

What you would have to do is get an interface with enough i/o, then just route an aux send out of the computer to the hardware, then route the hardware back into the box and record it on a separate track. Then mix to taste. With Cubase/Nuendo, they have implemented outboard fx sends with delay compensation, so you can tweak it in the context of the mix. Just like if it were an analog board. Other DAWs might have that feature too. (I just don't know)

 

[DavidK]

I am curious as to how this works, I am using Sonar 3 and thinking about getting an external reverb to save resources.

My interface has spdif. Can I assign a send in Sonar to the reverb machine via spdif, then it comes back??

 

[Farview]

I am curious as to how this works, I am using Sonar 3 and thinking about getting an external reverb to save resources.

My interface has spdif. Can I assign a send in Sonar to the reverb machine via spdif, then it comes back??

I don't know how it works in sonar. You would need an interface with spdif in and out and a reverb unit with the same.

You assign an output buss to the spdif output and send your signal there. Then you assign the spdif input to an input buss.

In Nuendo, you can set this up to work like an effects send and return. If Sonar doesn't allow you to do that, you can always just record the output of the reverb unit to a stereo track.

but, again, syncing digital outboard gear is a freaking nightmare. I always just use the analog I/O to do the same thing.

 

[SonicAlbert]

but, again, syncing digital outboard gear is a freaking nightmare. I always just use the analog I/O to do the same thing.

Syncing digital outboard gear needn't be a nightmare at all, it should be as easy to use as any analog setup. Turn the gear on, and it all syncs up.

However, if you are running sessions at sample rates different than your outboard hardware supports then of course it makes it impossible to use that hardware.

I run all my outboard hardware from the analog I/O of my audio interfaces. Even if it has digital I/O I just run it analog.

One reason for doing that is that it allows me to run my outboard at it's highest sample rate. So for example, if I'm doing a session at 44.1 I'll have my digital reverbs running at 48k. If the hardware supported 96k I'd run it at that.

Running your older outboard digital gear using it's analog I/O also extends its useful lifespan to indefinite.


But if your digital outboard supports the sample rates that you are using in your DAW, then really it's just a matter of making sure your settings are correct regarding which is the master and which the slave. It should all work fine if the settings and cabling are right.

 

[Farview]

For some reason, most outboard gear runs at 48k. If you happen to run your sessions at 48k all the time, there won't be much of a problem. But, you are stuck using the sample rate of your reverb unit.

In this day and age of people not realizing the difference between a preamp a mixer and an interface (mainly because there are so many all-in-one units on the low end that no one realizes that it's doing 3 or 4 different jobs) and people mixing in the box, injecting digital clocking issues into the mess is just a waste of time and brain ower.

I'm glad we don't have to deal with that all that much any more. But I'm also glad that I'm old enough to know how.

 

[DavidK]

Thanks for the helpful info fellas.

For some reason, most outboard gear runs at 48k.

I am looking at some low level Lexicons. The manuals say they will work at 44.1 or 48, analog or digital spdif.

My interface only has 2 analog ins and 2 outs. Therefore I am stuck with spdif assuming it will work.

 

[mixsit]

Thanks for the helpful info fellas.



I am looking at some low level Lexicons. The manuals say they will work at 44.1 or 48, analog or digital spdif.

My interface only has 2 analog ins and 2 outs. Therefore I am stuck with spdif assuming it will work.

Then you'll be looking for a setting on the Lex that sets the external SPDIF' as the clock source.

 

[ido1957]

Looking further into this.....

The EDIROL UA101 has Optical SPDIF In/Out, whereas my Lexicon and TC are RCA (coaxial??) In/Out. Never knew it was called coax but whatever....Not sure why the Optical SPDIF was on there - maybe it's the new technology...

The MAUDIO CO2 is a bidirectional converter that will convert as needed.

I'm thinking that the EDIROL could go between my mixer and my computer, although I could eliminate the mixer completely I guess.