D
DJL
Self Banned
I tired of being sucked into stupid matches... so I'm not going to fight with you.toorglick said:
freshmattyp
New member
I think the key to Alan's statement is the phrase "at our option". Repairing mics free of charge regardless of the damage is good customer relations, but may reach a point where it's no longer feasable and they have to start charging for user-caused damage.
noisedude
New member
Bliss ... I can tell there's an argument but as long as I handle my unhelpful curiosity I can only see one side of it.
noisedude
New member
I think freshmattyp's right - it's great PR and great for every user and owner, but it would be pretty crass business management to stick, "Lifetime No Questions Asked Warranty" on all their adverts and packaging.
Can we just appreciate this company for what it is? Oh, I forgot, most of us do, and the rest are fairly irrational
Can we just appreciate this company for what it is? Oh, I forgot, most of us do, and the rest are fairly irrational
alanhyatt
PMI Audio Group
I think it is a fair question, and I will give the following answer, but it will be lengthy.
When a mic comes in for repair, we know right away if it abused. We test it; we look at it under our microscope so we know when someone has spit beer and smoke all over the capsule, or has dropped it hard. We also know if there was a legitimate fault as well. Trust me when I tell you, we see some weird shit out there.
More mics come in with no problems, than those that come in with problems. Here is an example: A guy drove up to our office the other day. No appointment, just decided to beat on our front door. He lived about 80 miles away. He bought a B1 from Sweetwater, and said it was faulty. Sweetwater tried to help the guy, but rather than send it to them, he decided to drive it here.
We asked him some technical questions about his interfacing the mic, and he was a bit insistent that our mic was the problem because it did not work on his system, and all of his gear was perfectly fine. So, we bring him to the bench, plug it in, and it works fine. He can't believe it, apologized up and down, and went home to find the problem in his system. Turned out to be a bad M Audio mic pre.
Now we get lots of B1's in with no problems at all. We also get in product that really is broken. I can tell you that our defective ratio is way under the industry standard. The reason you hear so much about the B1 issues is we sell so friggin many of them, so even a real .5% defective ratio based on what we sell will yield a large number of returns like 130 units. Now add another 130 to 150 complaints that are not broken, but problems with their gear at home. So we get it in, check it out and send it back. All you guys see is the complaints on the boards, but you don't see what really goes on here. Now all this freight is a good deal of money that we should not have to spend, but we do it.
Joemeek has the same warranty as all our products do, yet I have never charged for a broken Joemeek unit...Never! This has been since 1995. Here it is nine years later, I just received in a VC1Q. It has a cold solder joint, I fix it, and return it....No Charge. I will not declare a lifetime warranty, but at the same time, I have never charged a customer for a repair.
I should not have to tell you this, but I will. We had a tech here once that we fired because we caught him trying to bleed customers by asking them to put cash in the box of the unit they were sending to get it repaired. We had no idea this was happening, and when we did, we fired the guy and returned all the money people sent in by us going back to the log and contacting everyone to see if they got stung. We could have let that go, but we did not. We ended up returning about $1500.00 to people that paid out these repair fees.
We have seen dropped Meeks in here where the rails were bent badly, meters crushed, pots sheered off. So, we replaced the parts, bent the rails back as best we could, and sent them back a well working unit. It may not look as pretty as it did, but it was fixed for free. You can’t expect us as a company to replace a bent chassis. That would be a charge if the customer wanted one, but that would not fall under our fault or as a warranty.
This is my policy for all my products. I can not, and will not say we have a lifetime warranty. We may have to send a mic back with a not so perfect head grille if was run over by a car, but you will get a working mic back. I don't care if it is new, or used, or if you are the fifth owner of any of our product. As long as you have a receipt, I will fix it to the best of my ability depending on the cause of damage.
You can’t ask me to give you a free mic if you run it over or drop it so hard it crushes the grille and capsule, but you can bet that we will straighten out the head grille as best we can, give you a new capsule and return a working mic. This is why I say, we will fix or replace at our option anything of ours that comes in here that really needs fixing. We have done this for the last nine years, and I will not stop now. So, is this a lifetime warranty? Well, it is as close as you are going to get.
Now don't be thinking, hey lets see if Alan is a man of his word, and smash a mic for the hell of it. We know when shit is done by the customer, and believe me, you will get it back fixed, but it may not look as good as it did before you smashed it. If you ever think a mic is not up to par, send it in, we will test it, and fix it if needed.
So, if this helps you all understand how I stand behind my products, then fine. I can tell you that this has been my policy and will remain my policy. I stand behind every product we make....End of story!
When a mic comes in for repair, we know right away if it abused. We test it; we look at it under our microscope so we know when someone has spit beer and smoke all over the capsule, or has dropped it hard. We also know if there was a legitimate fault as well. Trust me when I tell you, we see some weird shit out there.
More mics come in with no problems, than those that come in with problems. Here is an example: A guy drove up to our office the other day. No appointment, just decided to beat on our front door. He lived about 80 miles away. He bought a B1 from Sweetwater, and said it was faulty. Sweetwater tried to help the guy, but rather than send it to them, he decided to drive it here.
We asked him some technical questions about his interfacing the mic, and he was a bit insistent that our mic was the problem because it did not work on his system, and all of his gear was perfectly fine. So, we bring him to the bench, plug it in, and it works fine. He can't believe it, apologized up and down, and went home to find the problem in his system. Turned out to be a bad M Audio mic pre.
Now we get lots of B1's in with no problems at all. We also get in product that really is broken. I can tell you that our defective ratio is way under the industry standard. The reason you hear so much about the B1 issues is we sell so friggin many of them, so even a real .5% defective ratio based on what we sell will yield a large number of returns like 130 units. Now add another 130 to 150 complaints that are not broken, but problems with their gear at home. So we get it in, check it out and send it back. All you guys see is the complaints on the boards, but you don't see what really goes on here. Now all this freight is a good deal of money that we should not have to spend, but we do it.
Joemeek has the same warranty as all our products do, yet I have never charged for a broken Joemeek unit...Never! This has been since 1995. Here it is nine years later, I just received in a VC1Q. It has a cold solder joint, I fix it, and return it....No Charge. I will not declare a lifetime warranty, but at the same time, I have never charged a customer for a repair.
I should not have to tell you this, but I will. We had a tech here once that we fired because we caught him trying to bleed customers by asking them to put cash in the box of the unit they were sending to get it repaired. We had no idea this was happening, and when we did, we fired the guy and returned all the money people sent in by us going back to the log and contacting everyone to see if they got stung. We could have let that go, but we did not. We ended up returning about $1500.00 to people that paid out these repair fees.
We have seen dropped Meeks in here where the rails were bent badly, meters crushed, pots sheered off. So, we replaced the parts, bent the rails back as best we could, and sent them back a well working unit. It may not look as pretty as it did, but it was fixed for free. You can’t expect us as a company to replace a bent chassis. That would be a charge if the customer wanted one, but that would not fall under our fault or as a warranty.
This is my policy for all my products. I can not, and will not say we have a lifetime warranty. We may have to send a mic back with a not so perfect head grille if was run over by a car, but you will get a working mic back. I don't care if it is new, or used, or if you are the fifth owner of any of our product. As long as you have a receipt, I will fix it to the best of my ability depending on the cause of damage.
You can’t ask me to give you a free mic if you run it over or drop it so hard it crushes the grille and capsule, but you can bet that we will straighten out the head grille as best we can, give you a new capsule and return a working mic. This is why I say, we will fix or replace at our option anything of ours that comes in here that really needs fixing. We have done this for the last nine years, and I will not stop now. So, is this a lifetime warranty? Well, it is as close as you are going to get.
Now don't be thinking, hey lets see if Alan is a man of his word, and smash a mic for the hell of it. We know when shit is done by the customer, and believe me, you will get it back fixed, but it may not look as good as it did before you smashed it. If you ever think a mic is not up to par, send it in, we will test it, and fix it if needed.
So, if this helps you all understand how I stand behind my products, then fine. I can tell you that this has been my policy and will remain my policy. I stand behind every product we make....End of story!
Fab4ever
Getting better
Very impressive, I must say. All I own right now from PMI is a Meek compressor and a B1 microphone, but I sure feel good about them - and that's because of responses like that one. Thanks Alan!
B
Brent Casey
Member
I checked the logs on this:
34 B1's have come back.
18 - had some sort of problem. Most were capsule mount mods.
9 - capsules destroyed by misuse
7- no problem whatsoever, review returns, etc.
There is also one pending from an R. Hargrove of Tennessee. It has yet to arrive at the PMI massive subterranean complex by the sea.
That is the total repair history for the B1.
I cannot divulge sales figures of course, but I can say in broad terms that we have sold somewhere in the neighborhood of a rootin' hootin' tootin' whole mess of the dang things and we hope you get a lot of good recordings out of them.
and no, I'm not going to list the entire repair history for all SP mics.
Brent Casey
PMI Audio Group
877-Joe-Meek
34 B1's have come back.
18 - had some sort of problem. Most were capsule mount mods.
9 - capsules destroyed by misuse
7- no problem whatsoever, review returns, etc.
There is also one pending from an R. Hargrove of Tennessee. It has yet to arrive at the PMI massive subterranean complex by the sea.
That is the total repair history for the B1.
I cannot divulge sales figures of course, but I can say in broad terms that we have sold somewhere in the neighborhood of a rootin' hootin' tootin' whole mess of the dang things and we hope you get a lot of good recordings out of them.
and no, I'm not going to list the entire repair history for all SP mics.
Brent Casey
PMI Audio Group
877-Joe-Meek
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DJL
Self Banned
Alan,
I must say that I am totally impressed, and that IMO you have one of the best product warranties I have ever seen in my lifetime... not as good as Craftsman but it's not a wrench either... lol. This type of warranty for electronic products is got to be one of the best, if not THE BEST. I also want to thank you for taking the time to answer my question and for making the PMI warranty policy very clear to everyone so it can not be misunderstrood. Plus, I'd like to say that if in the pass you would have handled my questions like you did with this question we most likely would have never had any problems. With that said, keep up the good work... and you just got me off your back... an apology for the PM would have been nice but as your son pointed out... you don't remember sending it... which I can understand because I'm sure your box is overflowing all the time... anyway, thats all water under the bridge now and it's time to move on to better things.
Of course this does not change my opinion of cheap Chinese made budget mics... which I'm sure you will understand... but it does mean I will no longer single out SP... in fact, in light of your fantastic PMI product warranty, at times I may even recommend some SP mics over some other cheap Chinese made budget mics. Again... keep up the good work and thanks.
DJL
I must say that I am totally impressed, and that IMO you have one of the best product warranties I have ever seen in my lifetime... not as good as Craftsman but it's not a wrench either... lol. This type of warranty for electronic products is got to be one of the best, if not THE BEST. I also want to thank you for taking the time to answer my question and for making the PMI warranty policy very clear to everyone so it can not be misunderstrood. Plus, I'd like to say that if in the pass you would have handled my questions like you did with this question we most likely would have never had any problems. With that said, keep up the good work... and you just got me off your back... an apology for the PM would have been nice but as your son pointed out... you don't remember sending it... which I can understand because I'm sure your box is overflowing all the time... anyway, thats all water under the bridge now and it's time to move on to better things.
Of course this does not change my opinion of cheap Chinese made budget mics... which I'm sure you will understand... but it does mean I will no longer single out SP... in fact, in light of your fantastic PMI product warranty, at times I may even recommend some SP mics over some other cheap Chinese made budget mics. Again... keep up the good work and thanks.
DJL
T
toorglick
New member
DJL said:
I never use Smilies in my posts, but this one deserves it.
Oh, and these Smilies are not very good. I prefer the exaggerated rolling eyes.
Dethska
Not a Mod
Thanks for the response, Alan! That great customer service is the main reason I own a SP B1. And why I will always consider SP products in the future. Keep up the good work! 
noisedude
New member
Wow this thread came good all of a sudden.
Brent/Alan - what's the policy on egg-beaters then? Brent has already told us how he deals with them, but in reality do most get returned to sender with a label saying, "WTF???"?
There's no agenda behind this question, but is PMI a publicly listed company or is it a private company? I.E. would somebody be able to buy shares in PMI? I bet PMI shares would be a good buy if they are available.
Brent/Alan - what's the policy on egg-beaters then? Brent has already told us how he deals with them, but in reality do most get returned to sender with a label saying, "WTF???"?
There's no agenda behind this question, but is PMI a publicly listed company or is it a private company? I.E. would somebody be able to buy shares in PMI? I bet PMI shares would be a good buy if they are available.
noisedude
New member
Dethska said:Thanks for the response, Alan! That great customer service is the main reason I own a SP B1. And why I will always consider SP products in the future. Keep up the good work!
This is why as soon as I've bagged a summer job there will be a box carrying a B1 and a pair of C4s heading towards my front door, and the new Joemeek will be on my audition list when I go to listen to preamps.
alanhyatt
PMI Audio Group
Thank you DJL, I appreciate your change of heart. 
Let me try to answer you in the calmest manner I am able to. The reason I do not answer your questions is that they are usually of a confrontational or misinformed manner, so I basically ignore you in order to not put fuel on the fire.
So you know, I did send you a PM on June of 2003, however, I do not recall the content, but my best guess is that it must have been filled with some very descriptive adjectives based on some PM that you sent me around the same time, relating to some more Studio Projects bashing.
What I would never do is to not service anyone, including you. You will get no apology from me for any PM I sent. In fact, I think it is you who should be apologizing for your past behavior because you have personally dragged me through these boards like a shovel going through shit, so don't hold your breath for me to say I'm sorry. I have not been the one man crush crusade for the last year and a half.
Of course this does not change my opinion of you, your posts or your audio knowledge... which I'm sure you will understand. Now that I have had my say, you can either start the flame all over, or accept that I had my right to say this, and we can then move on from here. You're call.....
Let me try to answer you in the calmest manner I am able to. The reason I do not answer your questions is that they are usually of a confrontational or misinformed manner, so I basically ignore you in order to not put fuel on the fire.
So you know, I did send you a PM on June of 2003, however, I do not recall the content, but my best guess is that it must have been filled with some very descriptive adjectives based on some PM that you sent me around the same time, relating to some more Studio Projects bashing.
What I would never do is to not service anyone, including you. You will get no apology from me for any PM I sent. In fact, I think it is you who should be apologizing for your past behavior because you have personally dragged me through these boards like a shovel going through shit, so don't hold your breath for me to say I'm sorry. I have not been the one man crush crusade for the last year and a half.
Of course this does not change my opinion of you, your posts or your audio knowledge... which I'm sure you will understand. Now that I have had my say, you can either start the flame all over, or accept that I had my right to say this, and we can then move on from here. You're call.....
D
DJL
Self Banned
Naw, lets both spare everyone and be gentleman, shake hands... and move on. Agreed?
alanhyatt
PMI Audio Group
Brent Casey said:
I wish to add that the logs go back to May of 2002, so these numbers Brent mentions are for a period of two years, and does not include the walkin's which are maybe three more. It does not reflect our office in the UK, but the numbers there are less.
Like I said, the B1 is a very dependable mic.
alanhyatt
PMI Audio Group
DJL said:
Glad you said that...Agreed...
D
DJL
Self Banned
Then it's a done deal.alanhyatt said:Glad you said that...Agreed...
noisedude
New member
I feel emotional now ... I'm off to bed. It's been a long day of arguing.
Could this be the end of an era? There is a brand which does come up for frequent criticism, however I doubt we'll find Uli brushing up his English to come on here
I don't feel yet like my egg-beater issue has been resolved, but I guess skeelsd's shop guy shouldn't have posted the old lady the mic in the first place
(Is part of the problem that I'm just too sarky for everyone stateside?)
Could this be the end of an era? There is a brand which does come up for frequent criticism, however I doubt we'll find Uli brushing up his English to come on here
I don't feel yet like my egg-beater issue has been resolved, but I guess skeelsd's shop guy shouldn't have posted the old lady the mic in the first place
(Is part of the problem that I'm just too sarky for everyone stateside?)
Mark7
Well-known member
Is possible?
Is the war finally over?
Or is this just an armistice?
Is the war finally over?
Or is this just an armistice?
still4given
Got my ticket!
Alan,
I feel speechless. You're a stand up guy, and make me feel glad that I have recommended you products where ever I am.
Blessings, Terry
I feel speechless. You're a stand up guy, and make me feel glad that I have recommended you products where ever I am.
Blessings, Terry
