Sound Samples - since this is a big topic recently

chessrock said:
If you have confidence in your work ... then what should it matter if some anonymous guy on the internet trashes it and things it's "amateur" or garbage or whatever?
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That argument cuts both ways. If you have confidence in your posts then you shouldn't be afraid to let people know who you actually are and shouldn't be afraid of repercussions.

What is this board about? Last time I checked, it was about sharing information. It's about the posts. It's about the information conveyed in the posts. If you are incapable of judging the information within the posts and the knowledge of the person giving it based upon his/her overall posting and information quality, then an Internet forum is the wrong place for you to go. It's really as simple as that.

It requires that one use their own brain to evaluate the information provided to them. All of the good musicians and most of the good engineers I know actually have brains and know how to use them as such; in fact it's second nature to them to process things that way, like breathing. The lazy, are the only ones who actually believe that the quality of information in a post cannot be properly evaluated outside of it's own context. The dead giveaway of that laziness is the complaint that a detailed explanation of a technical concept is "too long" to bother reading.

G.
 
Glenny,

In the age of ribbon typewriters and the pony express ... I would certainly concur that the written word and verbal discourse are the focal point and the essential mode of communication amongst an assembly of intelligent and civil individuals.

But sometime in the last century we've kind of graduated in to an age of multimedia. And in an age where video and audio content can be instantly shared and accessed in a matter of seconds / minutes amongst thousands of people with the point of a mouse ...

I think we've reached a point where morse code, smoke signals and letter-carrying pigeons are giving way to an age of youtube and multimedia. And while the written word is certainly the most logical and relevant form of discourse ... one cannot dismiss the importance and impact of multimedia, and the obvious role it plays within the context of a message board that is essentially all about multimedia.

.
 
No time today for a detailed post - in the studio all day - but I just want to thank everyone who's kept their cool about the issue so far.

This will be a much more effective thread if it stays objective, non-personal, and to the point - the point being sharing your opinion on the value of sound samples, CD credits, or other "audio evidence of skill level" in evaluating a poster's comments.
 
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XLR said:
Good idea.

Wait... but... to do that everyone involved would have to post a tune.

The link didn't work for me. This one did... Rumble.
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Searchs expire kinda quickly. Just search for "Rumble" in title on the mp3 clinic. There have been about 20 of them.

Oh, and usually a Rumble is adding a track or tracks to a backing track. You could do a mix of raw tracks as a Rumble, but that's a lot of effort. Rumbles are usually quick and dirty, but there are no rules (other than the rule that the winner must be decided by arguing), so . . .
 
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No!!! It's teach gym! If you're gonna quote school of rock, quote it all!!!

!#$%@#$^&@#$p@#$p^!#$^*!@#$^*!#$^*




*just thought I'd add a little spice to this thread*
 
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Everybody needs to ask themselves these questions when evealuationg any given member of this board:

On balance, has their participation on this board been more helpful or harmful?

On balance, has the quality of their information been fairly regular and relaible, or do you not know just what may come out of their mouths next?

On balance, does their participation tend to stir more honest debate or more childish argument?

On balance, does the quality of the information they provide meet the standards of peer review; i.e. how do the more experienced engineers on this board rate the quality of that person's knowledge and participation?

On balance, does the person have any past pr present credentials or experience?

On balance, if a person provides MP3s instead of actual credentials, can the person provide unimpeachable provenance for the MP3s they provide and their level of participation in their creation?

On balance, which is a stronger indicator of post quality: a track record of stone throwing and a handful of MP3s of dubious provenance, or a track record of solid, helpful posts?

It seems to me that the best indicator of someone's post quality is their previous record of post quality. If those who couldn't post their way out of paper bags didn't abuse and totally corrupt the rep point system, that's what that would have shown us. But because that system has been totall corrupted by those who couldn't post their way out of a wet paper bag, you judge for yourselves. Use your heads.

Does someone have a reputation for providing good, solid, reliabe information and perhaps for sturring up good honest debate? If so, what else do you need?

OTOH, if someone keeps beating you over your head with their MP3s, yet has a reputation as a jackass, you have to ask yourself, what is their real motivation and how trustworthy can their posts actually be?

G.
 
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...decided to listen to his examples ... It was some of the best work I had heard, professional or amateur... For the next several weeks, I would make it a point to go back and read several of his old posts, on almost a daily basis. As it turned out, the guy had been giving out great advice for years -- there just wasn't anything about his soft-spoken method of writing to make him stand out in a rather busy message board (anyone who's visited Tapeop probably knows what I mean).
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Good example of how knowing the quality of someone's audio work gives greater meaning to their comments.
 
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SouthSIDE Glen said:
Everybody needs to ask themselves these questions when evealuationg any given member of this board:

On balance, has their participation on this board been more helpful or harmful?

On balance, has the quality of their information been fairly regular and relaible, or do you not know just what may come out of their mouths next?

On balance, does their participation tend to stir more honest debate or more childish argument?

On balance, does the quality of the information they provide meet the standards of peer review; i.e. how do the more experienced engineers on this board rate the quality of that person's knowledge and participation?

On balance, does the person have any past pr present credentials or experience?

On balance, if a person provides MP3s instead of actual credentials, can the person provide unimpeachable provenance for the MP3s they provide and their level of participation in their creation?

On balance, which is a stronger indicator of post quality: a track record of stone throwing and a handful of MP3s of dubious provenance, or a track record of solid, helpful posts?

It seems to me that the best indicator of someone's post quality is their previous record of post quality. If those who couldn't post their way out of paper bags didn't abuse and totally corrupt the rep point system, that's what that would have shown us. But because that system has been totall corrupted by those who couldn't post their way out of a wet paper bag, you judge for yourselves. Use your heads.

Does someone have a reputation for providing good, solid, reliabe information and perhaps for sturring up good honest debate? If so, what else do you need?

OTOH, if someone keeps beating you over your head with their MP3s, yet has a reputation as a jackass, you have to ask yourself, what is their real motivation and how trustworthy can their posts actually be?

G.
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Are you running for congress?

If you want people to respect you as an engineer then that generally requires a bit of work product. If you just like writing about engineering and want to be a respectable poster that's fine.

I have no real issue with you but you can be a real blowhard. Personally, I've learned more over my career from experienced assholes who know what they are doing then I have from nice people who just read alot.
 
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TexRoadkill said:
Are you running for congress?

If you want people to respect you as an engineer then that generally requires a bit of work product. If you just like writing about engineering and want to be a respectable poster that's fine.

I have no real issue with you but you can be a real blowhard. Personally, I've learned more over my career from experienced assholes who know what they are doing then I have from nice people who just read alot.
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Post Reported.

Who are you to say something like that to South Side Glen? He's posted more helpful advice than anyone else on this forum. I think anyone who posts mean things should be banned. Just like that Cheessrock and Fordvan. This place needs to be cleaned up. No more mean people. Only nice people on homerecording!
 
I like hearing examples of peoples work, but it's not always necessary for me to try and apply something that they have typed. It mainly would give me something to think about, and maybe ask a more specific question on how they accomplished something.
 
I like hearing examples of peoples work, but it's not always necessary for me to try and apply something that they have typed...
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I agree that hearing examples isn't a requirement for good info to be passed around.


...The main reason why most people link to their their work on this board is share/compare in an effort to improve. The majority, IME, say something along the lines of "my stuff is not all that great, I admit, but it'll get better being here." Not exactly stuff to use as a reference for authority...
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Hmmmm... What I've seen is that with the people here who I consider to be highly skilled, and it's a fairly large group, they're generally understated - even humble - regarding their own work. That may come across as a lack of expertise if one doesn't listen to their music.

...does the person have any past pr present credentials or experience?...
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Good point. Credentials and experience can weigh even more heavily than hearing a sample. Thinking of credentials... let's see, I'm wandering now over to Gearslutz' Mastering forum where posters tend to have credentials... pick someone at random... hey, there's a guy who mastered releases by Johnny Cash, Willie Nelson,... long list. Checking out another guy... long list of indie label CDs mastered that I don't know but could look up and listen to. And if I read much by him I will. Another... chief engineer at a well known major studio. OK, I can accurately sense the standards of sound quality those guys were working with from their credentials/experience. But these guys are pretty different in experience from most posters at HR. My point in mentioning them is just to give an example of what I consider credentials to be.

To me, to mean anything, a listing of credentials and experience has to be detailed - studio names and position held, artist or label names and service rendered to them, awards, verbal endorsement by a person I trust who's heard their work, etc. Vague things like just listing years of experience, or a city and general type of work one's been active in are great but don't indicate any particular level of engineering quality. That's why sound samples are good for a forum like HR.
 
Good advice is good advice, true enough. And anyone who's been doing audio for a while can quickly sort the wheat from the chaff. But the newbs often don't know who to listen to, and I can see where samples could help them. Also, it's more than just whether the advice giver knows what they're talking about, it's whether their production style is compatible with what the advice seeker is trying to do.
But aside from all of that, it's just nice to hear what other folks who share a love of recording are doing, sometimes in the context of their contribution to a discussion.
 
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Daisy said:
Post Reported.

Who are you to say something like that to South Side Glen? He's posted more helpful advice than anyone else on this forum. I think anyone who posts mean things should be banned. Just like that Cheessrock and Fordvan. This place needs to be cleaned up. No more mean people. Only nice people on homerecording!
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lol, whatever honey. I wasn't insulting Glenn. Ford and Chess have taught me a few tricks over the years and I appreciate it. They've become somewhat redundant lately but they've earned their right to do what they want.

Anyone who has worked in the field for very long will end up crossing paths with a lot of stressed out assholes. Like any area of expertise if you want to learn then shut up and listen. If your main concern is having people be nice then go join a quilting bee or something.

BTW I don't post my projects so I can brag. I post them out of purely selfish reasons, so I can learn from my mistakes. Maybe if Glenn wasn't so worried about being a Guru he could still learn some stuff too.
 
^Last time I checked, the people you said "have earned their rights to do whatever they want" have been banned....

Just because you've been in an industry for a while doesn't mean you have the right to be some pig-headed dick that sarcastically blasts every newb that graces this board... I don't care WHO you are, you lose respect by acting like a child. (I still can't believe they were as old as they claimed)...

-Joel
 
jrhager84 said:
^Last time I checked, the people you said "have earned their rights to do whatever they want" have been banned....

Just because you've been in an industry for a while doesn't mean you have the right to be some pig-headed dick that sarcastically blasts every newb that graces this board... I don't care WHO you are, you lose respect by acting like a child. (I still can't believe they were as old as they claimed)...

-Joel
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They've been around here for years and just got bored hearing the same questions over and over. I'm not saying they are justified in being dicks but in the end it's your loss. Obviously living in Idaho you have thousands of industry veterans at your disposal but many people aren't so lucky.

Have a swell day!
-Travis
 
XLR said:
Hmmmm... What I've seen is that with the people here who I consider to be highly skilled, and it's a fairly large group, they're generally understated - even humble - regarding their own work. That may come across as a lack of expertise if one doesn't listen to their music.
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Examples do help....There was alot of shit going on about amp modelers, and it was all pretty much talk.....then Farview posted a killer song, done with a Pod.....shut most of the naysayers up at that point that were just stirring up the shit. And he was kind enough to give some details into what he did to attain the sound in that mix.
 
Dogman said:
Examples do help....There was alot of shit going on about amp modelers, and it was all pretty much talk.....then Farview posted a killer song, done with a Pod.....shut most of the naysayers up at that point that were just stirring up the shit. And he was kind enough to give some details into what he did to attain the sound in that mix.
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Perfect example. Thanks.
 
Note: this thread is about a topic (sound samples and their value), not about an individual. Better IMO to keep comments general, not personal.
 
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TexRoadkill said:
They've been around here for years and just got bored hearing the same questions over and over. I'm not saying they are justified in being dicks but in the end it's your loss. Obviously living in Idaho you have thousands of industry veterans at your disposal but many people aren't so lucky.

Have a swell day!
-Travis
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See how quick you are to stoop to petty name-calling and sarcasm? So what, cause I'm in Idaho I'm a piece of shit? I've met some of the coolest people in the world, and NONE of them had that attitude at ALL. I knew a trombonist that played for 60+ years, and he completely divulged all information without any attitude WHATSOEVER. He was a master of his craft, as well as a gentleman and scholar...

Case in point:

Harvey Gerst - Why don't you check out HIS threads... He is one of the most calm, soft-spoken, intelligent informative men that ever graced this board.........EVER. Not once have I ever seen him get condescending on ANYBODY. If you want to be an asshole, fine.... I personally think you're capable of more. Don't let life make you bitter... Can't we just be nice???

Read this thread and come talk to me via PM....

Thread - https://homerecording.com/bbs/showthread.php?t=27030
 
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