sound engineering advice..

[D-Gravity]

Hey ya ll brothers,

I m in a situation here where I have to make a tough choice now. I am presently working in accounting in this newspaper company.. and I m yet to be confirmed. I just joined recently in augest 07. Now the thing is I want to do sound engineering as I realise audio is my area where I ll be able to put the whole of my efforts and feel what its like when you 'do ur thing' straight outta your passion and not by some rules and frameworks. So as I dont have enough money to get into the course which is really heavy on course fee, I will have to either take a loan or I have to have someone to help me out. My mom said a complete NO to edu. loans and said she d fund me if I want..but still not convinced that I can make a good income out of it. She insists that what I want is a job and a perpetual income source. I m confident that I can make my passion and dreams, a reality when I get enough exposure to the whole area of audio..and not the kind of exposure that I get after reading ABOUT it and doing it on software. I know money will only come if I prove my skills and im sure that I can. But as far as exposure and experience wit hardware goes, I need a place to go and learn and get a diploma certificate.

So, I d like to know what ya ll hav to say..ya ll been to recording courses..some not.. self tought..in my case I cant cos I m not in a position to buy equipments and experiment wit it and take time for it..this is a year program. So would it be good if I give a go? or I ll just do my office work and let the audio go along wit it as a side biz..or take it full time..will it be rewarding worth the time and money??

Thanx everyone who peeps in..

 

[tomica]

Hello mr.D
Hahaha its funny to see a decent man trying to find his piece of happynes under the sun.Don't take that personally I meant it in a very positive way, because I'm curentley eating nothing or shit because I would like to do my thing on this Earth.
So... my advice is ( I think many people would disagree ) learn the software thing because these days digital domain has cought up well in most areas with hardware;
I mean I've heard true masters work onley done on a laptop and to tell you the truth its all about having knowledge and when you have knowledge it doesn't matter wheather you're on a laptop or in a multimilliun dolar studio( when you don't know you're going to screw up anyway ), you know what i mean?

Ok my man Best of luck to you and remember to succeed you neet to know the right people
oh and most of the times ''right people'' are crimminalls (remember frank sinatra)
so take care

 

[Fyre]

My opinion is to go with your heart, I say that as I'm having a problem doing the exact same thing right now. The thing you need to know tho is that a year long course and even a degree in audio engineering isn't going to give u the weight u need to go into a studio and just get a job it takes a lot more work, and time then that. In todays music biz many artist record in a home studio or something of the sort then send there vocals to a big studio to be mixed so ther job of audio engineer isn't as prominent as it use to be, and extremely hard to get placed in a major studio, that is if your focus is hip hop. In my opinion the best route woulsd be to get the degree and work toward building your own studio and gradually switch from your current position to running your own local studio. Remember this is mostly my opinion which comes from a lot of reading and little personal expeience but this seems to be the general advice given tho

 

[D-Gravity]

feel ya..

Thanks alot..

First of, Tomica I feel ya. Yea you can work on whatever you feel confident. Knowledge counts the most yea. But I need both knowledge and exposure. I can make beats on my pc and learn by books(that too if I find time apart from my office and the studies). Plus all those folks like you said, who create masterpieces on their lap is doin it after getting exposure.The place im living generally lacks in providing exposure, unless you re friends wit high fly entertainment folks. So, these folks that I m planning to go- the SAE, will gimme knowledge and based on my skills they ll give me enough exposure (i believe) and from that I ll be able to set up my own one and be in control of my work. Thanks again for ur positives..



My man Fyre, I get what ur sayin. I m not lookin for just a degree to gimme papers. What I need is the basics and access to equipments and the exposure. Like you said folks are using home made stuff. If I make somthin like that, It d be really hard for me to get it out. The diploma, is like a security, IF I dont get enuff doors opened, those folks might hire me on my certificates, ya know the usual job thing. I can work on my own thing aside from it and take furthar to establish my own. Like you said thats the aim that I have. But to get there, I thoght this would be the first step. If I buy machines and books, I donno how long it will take..but if you re in a place wer there are folks to tell you what to do and a full access to them machines..that too in one year, I can concentrate on 'getting my thangs out' much earlier, compensating my time that I take to Learn those on my own, you know. And in hip hop, here I m primarily looking to establish hip hop in my own state, mixing traditional things. I want to be the first one to pioneer hip hop in my state hehe..the original REAL hip hop that is .. Now folks think sayin yo yo and wearing bling is hip hop..lol. So..I think I ll only have the conventional stuff to work on as a sound engineer/producer at the beginning. Its my thing to change my work area..after I establish. If I get hired by any industry which relates to sound, I m happy. I MIGHT try the way you mentioned, buy some equi. books..and take time to learn..IF I convince myself that payin dat heavy money to SAE, can be higher than payin to buy machines and books. I gotta do a comparison here. Thanks alot for the light, man.


Thank you ... Fyre, Tomica.

 

[Fyre]

Something else that I've seen commonly in these threads is that for the money and time you would spend at a SAE or fullsail you could get just as much knowledge and exposure by interning oor just helping out at studio. Find somewhere that will let you basically sit in on sessions and be a goffer for the engineers and watch how they approach sessions. That way u get the studio experience with seasoned enginers and you can learn the ins and out of the business. Not to mention that the artist whose sessions you sit in on are all potential clients if u decide to open your own studio. Sure you wouldn't get all the book knowledge and you wouldn't exactly learn the technical aspect of audio engineering but at the same time a big if not the biggest part of engineering is your ear and experimentation, so as long as you understand the concept time and pratice will take you far. Man I wish my boy mindset was around right now cause he can give advice on this matter way better then I can.

 

[D-Gravity]

oh.. I was thinking the same after you mentioned bout learning on your own. That was the question I had in my mind. Payin sae ? or pay for the machines and books.. My boss told me he knows a sound engineer who gets a hellll lotta money and he might help me get in as his assistant. The only thing I doubt is, will those guys let me do things like, u said in sessions and all? or will he just ask me to collect all the mic chords for one full year? You know wat im sayin.. It obviousely doesnt matter if someone dont teach me, I m sure I ll learn by myself..cos my passion drives me there. So, freedom and access to sessions.. will they be there if I be an assistant? I mean after my course, If get hired as sound engineer in somewhere, at least I dont have to wait for someone to ALLOW me to get into my thing..ya know..

Yea. I feel what your sayin brother.. lotta people in this forum are IN to the game. I just hope I ll get a way. Thanx again..

 

[tomica]

Haha you took the words from my mouth D-Gravity:

''The only thing I doubt is, will those guys let me do things like, u said in sessions and all? or will he just ask me to collect all the mic chords for one full year?''

I worked in a studio for a few months....but I was ''fired''... whell they stopped calling me
and the reason is exactley what you said... at first I collected chords and worked in the video section of the studio (chooping and editing videos) but the reason they hired me was to train me so the studio could work full time like 24hours,and I was supposed to do second shift (studio still works from 9am to 8pm)...

So the thing is, I started reading books they provided me, and allso the brochures from different companies that produce the equipment, BUT I had questions, and since I graduated physics, I wanted to ,whell you know , be challenged by the answers because (sorry my man I guess I'm loosing my train of thought ) all the literature that was handed to me favorized some manufactors, so I questioned the truth from proppaganda-you know what I mean?

Allso I think this I the point where it all broke down:
I was looking/listening to mixing/mastering of some clients tracks(live concert whitch is going on cd) and then I asked the guy who was doing it:
So you're doing the finall cut in k14 or k12?

And then he laughed (and that master from laptop example explained to me that the guy I asked doesnt know about the k system at all).

After that episode he stopped calling me to the studio,explaining that there's less work to do and that he'll call me soon, BUT on the other hand the boss of the record label/studio was furious when he heard abot that because they were crammed with jobs to do...

so my point would be... carefull with who you're dealing with because what I've learned from my example is that people are afraid of loosing their job when someone yunger comes allong, and someone who is willing to learn....

Long story short: knowledge is power, and people are afraid of power.

this is the case in my country, but I guess since you're from usa and since you are still no.1 economy of the world, you'll achive your goul much sooner than me..

Best of luck to you and dont stop learning

 

[D-Gravity]

this is the case in my country, but I guess since you're from usa and since you are still no.1 economy of the world, you'll achive your goul much sooner than me..

I get what u saying. But I d like to make a lil correction. I m not from the US..

And yea I feel sorry for what happened there with you. Its great that you wer just tryin to get the max out of what you had.. Yea, folks can be really nasty when it comes to starting up in a job.

So you re learning yourself now? I dont think I can do that within a time limit..the basics that is..I know thers no fixed time to learn. Yet I know schooling will help me for the basics than going to a studio. And IF I get a place that can provide me what I m lookin for and the people are not so nasty, and someone I know, at least through my friends of relatives- So risks can be minimized- I might try that too.

The thing is I gotta make a quick decsion, the batch starts in May first week or so, and my current boss told me that I gotta inform them when I m planning to leave one month in advance, and BEFORE I get a confirmation here. DAMN I think I gotta go meditate..

And tomica, wher are you from?? keep the thirst up fo knowledge.. hope that u ll get a major break soon.. Thanx

 

[Re-Lapse]

Follow yer heart homey.

You know D, I was reading through some of what you said here, I got lost up in the replies and got lazy and didn't want to read them.

So here is my reply nonetheless.

I want to know 1st off:

What school would you be going to?

How much is the 1 year school?

Are you REALLY into the music?

Do you like it as a passion, or would you like to sit and do it day in and day out, for cash up the ass?

Answer me these questions and I'll reply my honest opinion, But as for now homey go with your heart, you may start out slow and not be doing the greatest, but I guarantee if your heart is in it, you be makin millions.

Just make sure that when you're rich and famous you come back to the HR community and say hey 'err now and then. Also, don't be flippin' up the famous line "Chillin' like a villain killin' civilians by the millions..." into reality because you got money crazy.

Answer me those questions and I'll go further. Otherwise, Answer them and get your grind on homey.



PS. -- I'm in the same boat, I want to go to Audio Engineering and learn the ropes. But yet I'm a computer geek, I've gone through everything I can imagine BY MYSELF without schooling, to know what I know how. I could take a job in IT in about 2 seconds flat, but guess what? I aint got the papers that says so. So man, listen true, do what your heart tells you to!

........................I still dunno what career I want. Damn it D.

 

[D-Gravity]

I want to know 1st off:

What school would you be going to?

How much is the 1 year school?

Are you REALLY into the music?

Do you like it as a passion, or would you like to sit and do it day in and day out, for cash up the ass?

Okay my man Re,

I m going to the School of Audio Engineering

One year school would be around INR 200000 ie, 5,015.04 USD approx

I am deep into music. Never learned it..still I donno the notes and all..but ..any case it just comes out. So I think its there.

It IS my passion. I can sit for hours and hours in front of whatever machine I get to bring the kinda sound that I get in my brain, to a perfection. Which is one thing I cant do with ANY other activity. So I think that without passion, you cant dedicate ur time n patience to something.


HAHA...sure I will be in here Re, cant go nowhere witout this forum..

I d be providing my service free to the next Hustle Magic if I prove myself as qualified..

Oh and yea.. I ve decided to join and I ll be leaving my office this month cos batch starts May first part. Mom told me even if I dont get a loan(which she doesnt want) she ll gimme the money ..and if I want, treat it as loan and repay it... BUAHHAAHAAA.. I would love doin dat ..

So, I ll keep ya ll posted. I m happy that im followin my heart like ya ll said. Thanx everyone for support fam..

 

[Re-Lapse]

Okay my man Re,

I m going to the School of Audio Engineering

One year school would be around INR 200000 ie, 5,015.04 USD approx

I am deep into music. Never learned it..still I donno the notes and all..but ..any case it just comes out. So I think its there.

It IS my passion. I can sit for hours and hours in front of whatever machine I get to bring the kinda sound that I get in my brain, to a perfection. Which is one thing I cant do with ANY other activity. So I think that without passion, you cant dedicate ur time n patience to something.


HAHA...sure I will be in here Re, cant go nowhere witout this forum..

I d be providing my service free to the next Hustle Magic if I prove myself as qualified..

Oh and yea.. I ve decided to join and I ll be leaving my office this month cos batch starts May first part. Mom told me even if I dont get a loan(which she doesnt want) she ll gimme the money ..and if I want, treat it as loan and repay it... BUAHHAAHAAA.. I would love doin dat ..

So, I ll keep ya ll posted. I m happy that im followin my heart like ya ll said. Thanx everyone for support fam..

Do it homey. DO it.

That's CHEAP. I'm at a college that sucks largely, taking REQUIRED classes for General Education, and I'm paying about 3500+ a year. So that's not bad at ALL. Consider this, I was going to go to ITT Tech and it' was about $200,000.00 USD for 2 years. RIDICULOUS!

So.. DO it man. I have faith in you, I know you can do it. You'll be great at it.

--Re

 

[D-Gravity]

Worrrdd....

Oh.. dats some money.. Anyways. I ve heard this SAE s name pretty often whenever I made a search on sound engg. thing and its the HQ that I m goin to. So hopefully, they gimme what I want for the money they take..machines..faculties...access...books..everything. So I m not visiting there prior to my registration, cos I believe what the folks who re already there. They say folks got the Best in all...so..yea. Thank you Re, lets see how it all goes. Thanx ya ll..

 

[Re-Lapse]

Oh.. dats some money.. Anyways. I ve heard this SAE s name pretty often whenever I made a search on sound engg. thing and its the HQ that I m goin to. So hopefully, they gimme what I want for the money they take..machines..faculties...access...books..everything. So I m not visiting there prior to my registration, cos I believe what the folks who re already there. They say folks got the Best in all...so..yea. Thank you Re, lets see how it all goes. Thanx ya ll..

best of luck man.

--re-lapse

 

[Mindset]

Schools are good, teaching yourself is good too. The thing is, you may learn teaching yourself, but you'll probably not learn the science behind it.
OK so why the f would you want to learn the science behind it? because engineering sound is just like electrical engineering. Your still dealing with electricity in sound. Some people fail to realize that pressing record isn't enough, nore is it to "think" that a level is set because its at -0dB. You have to know why, where, when, & how. Making the life of a production team a whole lot easier. Especially for mixing & mastering eng.'s.

Don't jump into ANYTHING your not ready for, learn it all before you jump on the train. I've seen cats over here in Dallas trying to start their own studios etc. Failing mesirably within the first year of operations or faster.

So. Step one, figure out exactly what you want to do because what you want to do will take you so far. I have 3 studios here in DFW, another one being constructed here and within the next year, the other 5 will be constructed. 1 of my studios is in a more urban community for lower budget the engineers there really just deal with indie artists. They don't much know anything when compared to my downtown ftw nicer highclass studio. Most likely will stay in the $15hr range. Those deal with bigger budgets, more mainstream artists etc, the engineers there, are more knowledgable, and know they shit. They easily are able to converse through projects with other pro's in the industry without help. Workflow is fast. Value is higher. They get paid $50+. You can get there, how fast are you willing to go? I've tried to put a couple interns at the studio in Ftw, but usually my eng's are too busy doing their job. Fast.

Intern if you have the time, and if the engineer has the time (most don't), learn up to the knowledge of the engineer. Good cause you'll have real experience in handling say a session. Bad because - you need Time & patience just to get to that first level pay.

Go to school, learn the same thing & more w/o actual experience, but able to drop into any session & able to handle the workload without flaw. Good because you learn exactly how to work damn near everything. Learning an Analog board is different than learning a analog SSL console. I've interviewed some cats that swore up and down they knew what they were doing, that they worked on this & that console, but when sat down on a different name console, different layout etc, they have no idea wtf to do. SO do I hire them? Do I intern them? Naw, not really, I hire the guy who knows, because I have a session tonight. Know what I'm saying? Maybe I place the intern into a session, but he has to be quiet not to disturb the sessions & clients that paid thousands for? Maybe... but reality, the intern will probably ask a thousand questions, throwing the eng. off course, loosing 30 minutes on just breaths to speak, when the client or eng could be using that 30 min. for something else, all for examp.

Remember... this saying that you started out with no experience, no knowledge of anything.

Personally I have a passion to make money with the music I love. Watch those who have too much passion that they lack sense.

One of the biggest parts IS your ears & experimentation like Fyre said. BUT do that at the beginning, and don't experiment during paid sessions lol, it will help to place you where your really worth. but yup, understand the concept. Then you'll get a good idea of what goes on. Each business has it's own business.

Something else that I've seen commonly in these threads is that for the money and time you would spend at a SAE or fullsail you could get just as much knowledge and exposure by interning oor just helping out at studio. Find somewhere that will let you basically sit in on sessions and be a goffer for the engineers and watch how they approach sessions. That way u get the studio experience with seasoned enginers and you can learn the ins and out of the business. Not to mention that the artist whose sessions you sit in on are all potential clients if u decide to open your own studio. Sure you wouldn't get all the book knowledge and you wouldn't exactly learn the technical aspect of audio engineering but at the same time a big if not the biggest part of engineering is your ear and experimentation, so as long as you understand the concept time and pratice will take you far. Man I wish my boy mindset was around right now cause he can give advice on this matter way better then I can.

 

[Farview]

I say go for the dream.

But, don't make the mistake thinking that just because you are really good at something means you will make money at it. This goes for just about everything in the music industry. (or any of the arts) There are hundreds of examples of people with great skill having very little commercial success while someone with very little skill ( in comparison) goes platinum.

There is a lot more to being successful at recording than just knowing how to record. You need to know how to run a business, promote the business, you should know some music theory, etc...

 

[Fyre]

Man mindset just comes outta nowhere and drops jewels....

I need to move to texas so i can be down wit your team for real...