Sound booth building

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CrimsonKindred

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Hey people. I am new here. I have an idea in my head for the killer sound booth / isolation booth for a studio I am trying to build in my basement. Hit me with all the richest ideas you have. I actually want to make it 4 1/2 ft deep, 10ft wide and 7 to 8 feet tall. Also, it should be modular, so that I can break it down and move it without too much trouble in a few years if I move.

I am really looking for unique ideas, but please, if anyone know of a way I can get some decent disign plans, or blueprints please let me know. Hit me with your dreams.

ANY simple plans, for even simple booths will do, I can't find anything and I'm looking for a starting place, trying to avoid silly mistakes.

Arlen
in buffalo
crimsonriverkin@yahoo.com :cool:
 
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if your looking for isolation (semi-soundproofing) then it cant be portable. You need lots of mass and sealed gaps all around. You basically need to build a small room.
 
Oh, I do believe it's possible, not necessarily efficient. I appreciate your thoughts. Any one else have some input? Plans, or blueprints?
 
It is possible to build it knock down. However, it requires excellent fabrication skills to build this. Not an afternoon fly by the seat of your pants project. Perfectly square panels, assembly alignment pins, etc etc. Plus a special order door seal. This is a DECOUPLED TWO LEAF, MASS AIR MASS assembly with a double laminated glass door with a floated second leaf. NOT EASY :eek: However, it IS doable. Here is a detail. If you think you can deal with this, then I'll post a series of drawings over the next week.
fitZ :)
 

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Oh Rick,
Thank You Thank You!
Hook me up man, I am up for it. I have a significant number of people to back me up on this one. ANYTHING you got I will take in...
I'll be checking in.

Where should I look? Right here at this thread???
Leme know.
Take Good,
Arlen
 
Hook me up man, I am up for it. I have a significant number of people to back me up on this one. ANYTHING you got I will take in...
Well, lets not jump the gun here. :D There are tons of questions that need to be answered prior to doing this. First off, let me admit that I have not personally built a booth from this design. Second, there are some details that haven't been technically worked out yet. Like the "decoupling seal" between the two leaves of the door. This is based on a design from an Aircraft DOOR SEAL. It would have to be "custom" made seal by an Aircraft seal manufacturer in Oregon. Probably BIG BUCKS!! :eek: As a matter of fact, this design, although using common and readily available materials, will still take a hell of a budget. Especially with the size you are talking about. Which I don't see a need for 10 foot length, unless for duos or something. Remember, this is actually a "room within a room" design, which means it will be EXTREMELY heavy. The panels are all 3/4 MDF, which weighs in at about 100 lbs per panel, and for the size you're you'er after, you're looking at about a minmum of about 25 panels :eek: :eek:
I don't have time to go into detail here, but there are some questions that need answers before I begin posting this stuff. For one,the sections and details are NOT finished, as I started this project over a year ago. It takes time to draw this stuff correctly, and some of the details haven't addressed the physical properties of hardware and availability of such things as venting fans, ducts, fabrictrax, hinges, glass, seals, fiberglass isolators etc etc. This design REQUIRES absolute precision when cutting panels, which means having them cut by a cabinet shop. It also requires KILN DRIED lumber, which is WAY more expensive than standard grade lumber, which is wet and shrinks after building the modules. YOU CAN"T DO THAT or you will have real assembly problems. Which is another animal. Assembling these modules will be a lesson in the reality of SQUARENESS. Anyway, I have to go. I'll post some questions tonight. One thing this will require, is an existing space with a CONCRETE floor. You can't build this on a second floor or a wood framed floor. Too heavy. These are the kinds of things that we have to answer.
fitZ
 
Work With Me

I hear you. So You have a sugestion for a type of wood to be kiln dried. I have a list of potential supliers in Michigan and Canada, but I am a little blind to some of the details you are discussing.

So you know of any good supliers for the fiber board?

Important to note 99.9 % isolation is not a must. More vocal to be recorded in finished booth than anything else. Sax and other horns second.

Appreciate all info anyone is willing to offer.

Take Good,
Crim
 
a 'sound' proposal

Come on now fellas, I know someone has more to say.
Tell you what:
You throw some 'sound' ideas (pun intended) @ me,
And I will post links to the best underground artists on the planet.

Crim
 
So You have a sugestion for a type of wood to be kiln dried. I have a list of potential supliers in Michigan and Canada, but I am a little blind to some of the details you are discussing.
Hello crim, sorry I didn't get right back to you. I have a lot of irons in the fire.
Well, lets sort this out. First to answer your question. Kiln dried Poplar is the material of choice for KNOCKDOWN type applications.However, depending on the final SOUND TRANSMISSION LOSS needs, Plywood, or MDF may suffice as framing.
However, before submiting my solution, I think you need to tell us all about the proposed project. As much as you can tell us. You may only need a less robust solution. But before we go on, let me address this first.
Important to note 99.9 % isolation is not a must. More vocal to be recorded in finished booth than anything else. Sax and other horns second.
99% of what and at what distance and against what?. Let me illustrate.
You "DON"T NEED 99% isolation" to....:
1. isolate a mic recording a flute inside a tent 50 feet from the Shuttle launch :D
2. keep a horn player from waking your mother in law at 2AM in the morning. She is in the room above the horn player :eek:
3. To isolate vibration from a passing train from entering into the studio . The train tracks are 50' away. There are also busses running on schedule on the adjacent street.
4. To keep Horns/drums from bleeding into the vocalist track.
5. To keep sound from the studio from bothering a neighbor who is in an adjacent TOWNHOUSE/APARTMENT. :eek:
See what I mean? I can't help you untill you tell us what you are trying to do, EXACTLY. I can tell you this. The simple criteria, "portable", means an increase in expense, skill level, tighter assemby/fabrication tolorance, and understanding the articulation of the chosen materials for results that work.
This means having the means to to precision cut and assemble HEAVY MDF panels/framwork and the room to do so. If you do, let me know. In the meantime, here is a look at a simplified plan section. This is NOT finished and is for illustration only. You could stretch the dimensions to fit. However, I believe this sort of structure STILL requires approval from the Building Inspection Department to erect, as it is HABITABLE space, and confines a space within a habitable space. I could be wrong though. However, there is one thing here that you need to understand. Any time you build something that is within the confines of a habitable space, if built without permits when they are required, your insurance is in jeprody. Second, you DO own this space don't you? Building anything in a rental is potentially a waste of time, if not illegal.
Anyway, here is a basic plan, but is by NO MEANS finished. There are many more drawings to this and many things are NOT shown in this. It is to illustrate THREE concepts. This first concept is a TWO LEAF (MASS AIR MASS)assembly, where one leaf is supported by a frame, and the second leaf is decoupled from the first. The second concept is the second leaf is an INSIDE OUT assembly :eek: In other words, the framing for the second leaf faces the interior of the room. Beteen the leafs is an airgap as large as you want to make it or have room for. In this case, it is 4". What is NOT shown here is the insulation. Hence a "structural" plan section. On the interior, between the framing members is 3" Owens Corning 703(rigid fiberglass) which is NOT shown. This airgap between the leaves recieve typical BATT type fiberglass insullation. I will show this in the next drawing. But not untill you tell us what we need to know in order to suggest a solution which is appropriate.
The third concept is modules. This whole booth is designed to be built in modules. The exterior WALL leaf is 8 modules. The interior leaf is 8 modules. The floor and ceiling are another 8 modules. This is actually based on a typical crate design. However, it is much more complex, once you see everything. Lighting, absorbers, fabrictrax, cable interfaces Ventilation(HVAC?) and the biggie, the door, which may or may not be glass. Glass and the special seal as shown could concievably cost $1500 alone. :eek:You might wanna price ONE sheet of 3/4" MDF in your area too. And the price of KILN DRIED and MACHINED 8quarter Poplar. This does NOT come as 2x4's. It must be cut and surfaced by a shop Hence the suggestion of PLY or MDF framing. Anyway, here is the basic plan section.
fitZ
 

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I mean it's no big deal to me if some one can hear my sax faintly if they have their ear 1ft away from my "booth", whatever a booth is. What IS important is that if my mic is on with no one in the "booth" and I am at the sound board with the mic all juiced up recording nothing, while my washer and dryer are going on the other side of the room, the mic still thinks it is in an abyss of soundlessness, and that this is translated to the final product.

Of course, its all about final product. I am looking at different ways to do studs and different options for fabrication of the inside and outside of the modular (and it will be modular for crying out loud) booth, and it will sound good when recorded. As far as modular goes, I see it in my head as being "portable" in the sense that with great reluctancy and procrastination, I could bust out some tools and spend a few hours taking it apart into pieces that will fit through the two doors I would have to go through to get to a moving van and load it on, all while out ruining it. I see for the outside of it 16 modules:

4 front, 4 back, 2 rt side, 2 lft side, 2 cieling and 2 floor modules

My final answer on the hight of this thing is 6'10". Width and depth still up in the air around 7'-8', and 4-5 feet respectively.

Sound booth will be used for recording vocals, at times whispered and at times screamed, as well as Alto and Tennor sax, trumpet, and possibly trombone... no drums.


@ work now, more soon
God Bless
Take Good,
Crim
 
I think Crim and I are looking for just about the same thing here, except for size. I made a quick illustration for mine, nothing to elaborate by any means, only for dimensions.

click

And I'm in the same position as you Crim because I will eventually have to tear it down (preferably so I can reconstruct it) and I'm trying to find out what are going to be the best materials to use for a basic home studio sound booth.
 
and I'm trying to find out what are going to be the best materials to use for a basic home studio sound booth.
As far as isolation is concerned, DRYWALL is the best bang for the buck material for MASS. However, there are two caveats. Drywall is for PERMENANT situations, as you must deal with the edges. And with permanent construction, you have to deal with the permit issue. For TEMPORARY or KNOCK DOWN, you still need MASS, which MDF will give you, but you need facilities, sills/ tools to precision cut/machine it.
Guys, there is NO getting around the use of MASS for isolation. Yet mass alone will not get you there. What you need to realize is a MASS AIR MASS- TWO LEAF ASSEMBLY with one leaf DECOUPLED, and a HERMETICALLY SEALED AIRGAP is the road to isolation nirvana. How far you take the MASS and AIRGAP elements determines your TRANSMISSION LOSS. It is familiar territory for those who are used to building isolated structures. However, one little slip in the DECOUPLING will destroy all your hard work Here is the deal.
I was told by an acoustician in Europe, that an isolation experiment was conducted at the University that he attended. They built a CONCRETE "room within a room" structure, with each of two leaves formed from ONE FOOT THICK concrete :eek: The interior shell was decoupled and floated within the exterior shell, and they provided a sealable access to the interior through both envelopes. In the first experiment, witness's were placed around this concrete "box", and a 9 mm pistol blank was fired within the interior shell. No one heard anything. In the second experiment, a small wooden stick was wedged in the airgap whereby it touched BOTH shells.
A small radio was then played on the interior at normal listening level. It could CLEARLY be heard on the exterior by the witnesses.
This is what you MUST realize. Structural transmission of sound vibration is your achilles heal. Decouple the interior leaf, and you will substantially increase the transmission loss. Doubling the Mass will give you at best, 6db improvement. This means if you have one layer of drywall/MDF on each leaf,
two layers will ONLY improve this loss by a theoretical maximum of 6db. If the one layer scenario gives you "X"db TL at 125hz, doubling the mass will only give you "X + 6db", at best. And LOW FREQUENCY can be a real problem. Suffice to say, this subject is very difficult to explain in one post. What the bottom line is this. In order to SUCCESSFULLY isolate a given source, you MUST know the db profile of the source, in order to effectively design an assembly with a TL to isolate it. I know of one homestudio builder who has a TOTAL of TWELVE LAYERS OF DRYWALL :eek: :eek: :D That is the reality of HIGH SPL isolation. Especially at low frequencies. And this doesn't even consider the problems of "floating" the structure, OR the structural elements that must be in place to support this weight, especially at the ceiling. :eek: Imagine suspending 5 layers of drywall from an existing roof framing. Ha! Well, thats the reality of HIGH SPL isolation. Don't believe me? Read these and you will begin to understand....maybe :rolleyes: Thats why HIGH SPL/LOW FREQUENCY isolation cannot be achieved with a "knockdown" solution. Unless you have a forklift to move modules with 4-5 layers of 3/4" MDF. ;)

http://forum.studiotips.com/viewtopic.php?t=107
fitZ
 
Man, you have some really great information and you're very knowledgable in this area. But for myself (and maybe Crim), I think it's just not feasable to go about it in such a professional way... I WISH I COULD! but aside from not having the funds for it, I also do not have very much knowledge or experience with acoustics. So, let me try and tell you what I'm aiming for here:

Well, I know some guys who line a corner of a room with egg crate foam and put their mic inbetween them and the corner to record... and it doesnt sound all that bad for such a low budget home studio situation. I was actually impressed! I'm looking to go a step or two up from that so I dont have to start over every time a car drives by or wait untill my refridgerator stops. In your opinion what would be the most efficiant way to do this?

Thanks
 
I just thought I'd say that if you were to use screws rather than nails for all the framing, you can tear down the booth and put it back together again pretty easily. The only material that would be destroyed by taking it apart later would be the drywall which isn't that expensive. You could always sandwich some sheetblok between a couple layers of 3/4 inch plywood instead of using drywall. That should be reusable, right?
 
I plan to have some studs supporting inside walls and some studs supporting outside walls (not touching). This should reduce transmission loss (sound escapinig and entering). Heres a question though... maybe you know Fitz. what are some different decent ways to construct the walls. I was thinking similar to Chris using two different materials for each set of walls, to use a MDF / Sheet Rock combo (sheet rack is drywall isn't it?)for the outside wall and something similar for the inside wall like maybe some combo with the rigid fiber glass stuff I keep hearing about but dont know anything about.

At this point Fitz, dont worry about posting elaborate blueprints for space age what not. At this stage I want to think on practical disign issues and building materials.
 
Considdering the make up of the inner and outer walls alone what do you think?
M = MDF Board
S = sheet rock
F = rigid fiberglass board

outside -->inside

MS . FM
MS . FM
MS . FM
MS . FM
MS . FM
MS . FM
MS . FM

I was thinking 1/2 in MDF and 1/2 in Sheet rock on outside wall and 3/4 in fiberglass board and 1/4 MDF inside wall with 4 inches between them. Shout back at me with comments, feel free to expose my ignorance! Thank you.
 
Spaulding... yeah not looking for the 100 percent sound proof room, however I want it to look good and I want it to work well for protecting recordings from some considerable outside of the box noise, which may or may not exist, and to keep the rest of the studio free from extra noise from a saxopone and maybe a trumpet.

Fitz what CAD Program are you using for your drawings I just got a freeware version of CAD Std. I am loving it. I have started designing blueprints to to give myself a plan to look at as I go, share with folks, and so that I can justify to my wife brining all the materials into our basement.

Take good,
Crim
 
Hey Crim, since were looking to do just about the same thing, if you run across some more info send it over this way and I'll do the same. share the wealth! ;)

email: kreatorx222 (at) hotmail (dot) com
 
Hey guys, how ya doin?
I plan to have some studs supporting inside walls and some studs supporting outside walls (not touching).
Hello Crim. Sorry for the delay. I work a lot. :rolleyes: well, thats good cause walls don't stand very straight without them :D

what are some different decent ways to construct the walls.
Different? Decent? Hmmm, I already showed you the way I would do it. Maybe I better provide a bit more detail. In fact, you need to consider LOTS of things here. I guarantee you, if you fly by the seat of your pants when building this, you will experience some unpleasant hindsight, if not downright failure. Therefore, let me touch on some details that you might not have thought about. First lets address this "different/decent aspect.

Like I said, I already showed you what I would do. There are MANY reasons for my choices. The plan I drew shows an interior shell with an "INSIDE OUT" construction. This has a two fold purpose. First, to save space on the interior. If you build a standard interior shell, the studs would be in the airgap, which DOUBLES the space it takes in BOTH the airgap and on the interior, as you have to provide at least 3" thick rigid fiberglass treatment on the interior. Thats 1/2 a foot for both sides of an enclosure. . Not a problem if you have the space, but usually BOOTHS are small and every inch counts. Thats why I designed it with the studs facing the interior, which gives you framing in the same plane as your treatment, which is placed between the studs. This would be Rigid fiberglass with a fabric cover. The interior LEAF would actually be fastened to the stud faces on the airgap side of the stud.
The exterior leaf is a normal 1 leaf assembly, with batt type insulation between studs(in the airgap). You can keep the insulation in the stud cavity with plastic strapping. It comes in a roll. There should be a minimum of 1/2" between the face of the interior leaf, and the face of the exterior assembly stud face. This will give you a 4" airgap. However, there are many many issues and details to look at. Since this is a knock down assembly, you really need to look at everything. Its called PLANNING :D Here are a few things to consider.
Sealing. If this were a permanent structure, you could just caulk all the joints. However, when the modules are assembled into a shell, they need some kind of NON PERMANENT seals at the joints. These seals must be planned into the dimensioning. I would suggest using a foam product used to seal a wall plate at a foundation/slab. It comes in a roll and is about 1/8" thick and the width of a 2x4/2x6. It may have one side with an adhesive, or you could spray an adhesive on one face. Thats what I would do. I'll show you where to put it.

Ventilation. Puncturing the shell for ventialtion can defeat all your hard work if not done with transmission loss in mind. This means the supply and return ducts must have some 90 degree bends as well as appropriate fan speed/duct size. You can't see the detail of the plenums in my plan. This is a project in itself, and depends on what type of unit you are actually going to use. Remember, sound propagates two ways. Via the air, and structurally. This means, even a 1/32" hole might as well be 1". This translates into an AIRPROOF envelope if no ventilation is used. It also translates into heat, as people and lights generate heat. Hence ventilation, which REQUIRES not only a SUPPLY duct, but a RETURN DUCT to remove the heat, AND to equalize the pressure in the booth. Remember, you can't blow into a bottle, right? ;) However, finding a unit for ventilation is always a problem. There are a few companys that make them, but they are not cheap. Again, depends on your budget/skill/design/ tolerance for unpleasant sessions.
Door/Jamb. This IS a problem. With a DOUBLE envelope, in order to keep the integrety of the DECOUPLING intact, it would require TWO doors. This is why MOST people build a booth with ONE frame and 2 leafs. This is the way a standard wall is built. Therefore, only ONE door is required. However, IF you are building a double wall assembly, then there are only TWO ways to keep the leafs decoupled. Two doors and two jambs OR a Two leaf door with one leaf decoupled. But thats a mofo to build. Hence my drawing. But if you use TWO doors, and the booth is small....guess what. The exterior door has to open OUTWARD and the interior door has to open INWARD. But if you only have 4 feet to enter, try to close the interior door.......understand? :eek:
What ever you do, don't use a hollow core door. Use a solid core, Even add a layer or two of 3/4" MDF to it too. But remember, for every mod, you have to mod the Jamb as well.

But there are more REAL problems with Portable booths. If you want me to go on, it'll have to be tomorrow. I've got to go now. Hope this fills in a few blanks for ya. I WILL post some drawings tomorrow or the next day. Later.
fitZ
 
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