Sonic Maximizer question

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WhatdoIknow said:
If you understood how a BBE worked,
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Oh I do... well enough to understand that they're claims are a bit questionable in application... but that's already been beat to death here...

I own one... I've had it for at least fifteen years... and it still sounds great... on my home stereo ;)
 
I have had great results with the BBE depending on the application,incidently
BBE is now a VST plug. One word of concern. Some high end monitor speakers already have a phase relationship correction built in,so if you use a BBE on them you might actually be doing harm.
The proof is in the hearing, if it sounds clearer it is clearer. Sound is like temperture, not everyone likes it the same. I like clear highs, I know the mixing trend now in modern music seems to be pronounced lows.
 
Timothy said:
Some high end monitor speakers already have a phase relationship correction built in,so if you use a BBE on them you might actually be doing harm.
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This is part of the problem with the whole 'phase correction' idea. Your car will have different phase problems than your living room, and the club you go to, and the PA system at the walmart, the radio station, your girlfriends car, her bedroom, etc...

It's lunacy to apply something to a mix to compensate for your control room environment when you are trying to get it to translate to the outside world.


That idea also falls apart in the context of a guitar rig. Since guitar cabinets don't have tweeter (typically), there is nothing to compensate for. If you like your guitar brighter and/or with less lower mids (and more low end), fine. Don't fool yourself into thinking you are compensating for the inadequacy of speaker design. Remember, your amp was designed to sound like it does through that kind of cabinet. You don't have to compensate for anything except the difference between what they designed it to sound like and what you want it to sound like.
 
Yes Farview I agree, the control room is no place for a sonic maximizer because most of the rest of the world does not have one. I'm just not to sure though how the BBE vst plug works when a mix is played back printed with it , might just be an improvement for the "normal" speaker depending on where in the chain you insert it.
I think where you mention the variables in systems and how they are all different,the case is probably an algorithm that best suits the MAJORITY of systems was designed,not a best in every case but a best for most all systems. Most car and home speaker designs probably share almost the same physics and so the sonic maximizer works on them pretty well. If the lows reach my ears 10,000ths of a second to late my brain can tell the difference between right on and just a little off. I really notice a difference in what I describe as a cleaner sound, more polished.
The most noticable difference though is on a PA because the bass woofer has so much more mass to move than the typical home speaker,pa speakers tend to be muddier with respect to alignment and the difference is dramatic.
I noticed not to long ago BBE came out with an "improved" box. I'm not to sure what that means, but they appear to have refined the process more.
 
Timothy said:
If the lows reach my ears 10,000ths of a second to late my brain can tell the difference between right on and just a little off. I really notice a difference in what I describe as a cleaner sound, more polished.
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You can tell when someone moves a sub an inch? That's pretty good.


Timothy said:
The most noticable difference though is on a PA because the bass woofer has so much more mass to move than the typical home speaker,pa speakers tend to be muddier with respect to alignment and the difference is dramatic.
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There is something to that, but placement and a digital delay will do more to correct that than a BBE box.
 
My favorite use for my Aphex Aurial Exciter is for all the Karaoke CDs that come in...they allways seem to need it...and the singers love it.

But dont listen to most of the comments listed for this type of device...Gary Katz himself swears by them...Hes behind the Steely Dan sound.
 
Farview said:
That idea also falls apart in the context of a guitar rig. Since guitar cabinets don't have tweeter (typically), there is nothing to compensate for. If you like your guitar brighter and/or with less lower mids (and more low end), fine. Don't fool yourself into thinking you are compensating for the inadequacy of speaker design. Remember, your amp was designed to sound like it does through that kind of cabinet. You don't have to compensate for anything except the difference between what they designed it to sound like and what you want it to sound like.
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Exactly, and I use the BBE to achieve this (in my guitar rig). No I am not tone deaf either, what it boils down to is "I" know what I want to hear and I know how to achieve this. Sure, there are alot of people who like em' and alot of people who don't, it's not to say that the Sonic Maximizer is not useful in any given application, but when someone has found a way to yield good results from using a BBE or any other effect for that matter, then who is to argue that is no good. There is NO right or wrong way, just different ways, it just means that someone was successful with it and others haven't figured it out. It 's like saying good rock n roll music can only sound good on Les paul going thru a marshall, That is bull shit,......if it sounds good to you, that is all that is important, regaurdless of what equipment was used and how it was used to achieve it.
 
It's a piece of gear. It produces a very defineable and predictable effect. It it's useful to you and improves your mixes, for Pete's sake, use it. :rolleyes:

This aint that tough to figure out. :cool:
 
flamin-gitaur said:
Exactly, and I use the BBE to achieve this (in my guitar rig). No I am not tone deaf either, what it boils down to is "I" know what I want to hear and I know how to achieve this. Sure, there are alot of people who like em' and alot of people who don't, it's not to say that the Sonic Maximizer is not useful in any given application, but when someone has found a way to yield good results from using a BBE or any other effect for that matter, then who is to argue that is no good. There is NO right or wrong way, just different ways, it just means that someone was successful with it and others haven't figured it out. It 's like saying good rock n roll music can only sound good on Les paul going thru a marshall, That is bull shit,......if it sounds good to you, that is all that is important, regaurdless of what equipment was used and how it was used to achieve it.
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+10...............
 
Timothy said:
Most car and home speaker designs probably share almost the same physics and so the sonic maximizer works on them pretty well.
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How could this be? Even if the speakers were exactly the same, the interior of the car would screw the whole thing up. Anyway, if all speakers were the same, why would there be a knob? You would only need a switch.
Don't drink the kool-aid.
 
Hey Farview I respect your opinion I just dont share it. I have a hunch that even if I could show you the facts that back up what I'm saying you would still disagree and thats your right ,frankly Ive got better things to do than to try to convince you or anyone else about where I'm coming from. Your just another poster to me who insults people when you can't make your point.
For a box that doesn't work there are sure thousands of them being sold and bought by many happy customers. If you have studied physics you know that certain rules never change,paper tubing wrapped with wire moves the same across a magnet coil the same. The bass frequencies are always going to behave the same when leaving a woofer surface. I might not be the sharpest tool in the shed but I know that.
Hey if you want a soapbox why not find something important to say?
 
Timothy said:
Hey Farview I respect your opinion I just dont share it. I have a hunch that even if I could show you the facts that back up what I'm saying you would still disagree and thats your right ,frankly Ive got better things to do than to try to convince you or anyone else about where I'm coming from. Your just another poster to me who insults people when you can't make your point.
For a box that doesn't work there are sure thousands of them being sold and bought by many happy customers. If you have studied physics you know that certain rules never change,paper tubing wrapped with wire moves the same across a magnet coil the same. The bass frequencies are always going to behave the same when leaving a woofer surface. I might not be the sharpest tool in the shed but I know that.
Hey if you want a soapbox why not find something important to say?
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I have said, in this very thread, that the maximiser does have uses. All I'm saying is that their marketing point about 'correcting for phase anomolies' is very flawed. Even if all speakers reacted the exact same way, the environment that the speakers are placed in could/would negate any gain. The other problem with that line of thought is, where is the calibration? How do you know when you have the highs and lows in perfect phase? Are you sure you aren't over compensating? Under compensating?

My car has 4 full range speakers and 2 subwoofers, how do you propose a BBE-type devise will compensate for the tweeters and woofers not being within a foot of each other and not even facing the same direction? What about the highs being reflected every which way off the glass while the lows are not?

I don't recall insulting you, or anyone in this thread. If you wish to be mis- informed, I'm sorry physics 101 gets in the way of your belief system.
 
Timothy said:
Your just another poster to me who insults people when you can't make your point.
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I read this thread, and I don't see an insult from Farview. Please show me where he is insulting someone? To me, most people that responded to this thread were merely stating opinions on the performance of said Maximizer, and maybe the limitations of it also. I alos gathered that most knowledgable folk were trying to convey the message that you should try and get things sitting correctly in the mixing stage first, before trying these plugins that some call "tricks".
 
Farview said:
Don't drink the kool-aid.
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What do you call this?
Like someone else has said its all subjective. If I like want to chain two sonic maximizers together and play them through studio monitors in my car and like what it does, I'll do it. I wouldn't care if Bach pissed his pants over it. If I want to eat crackers in bed and paint my dog orange I'll do it. It probably wouldnt fit in your book Youre not going to convince me its all evil and I'm not going to convince you so lets just leave it at that.
 
Timothy said:
What do you call this?
Like someone else has said its all subjective. If I like want to chain two sonic maximizers together and play them through studio monitors in my car and like what it does, I'll do it. I wouldn't care if Bach pissed his pants over it. If I want to eat crackers in bed and paint my dog orange I'll do it. It probably wouldnt fit in your book Youre not going to convince me its all evil and I'm not going to convince you so lets just leave it at that.
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+++++++++100000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Although I would paint my dog Green :D
 
Timothy said:
What do you call this?
Like someone else has said its all subjective. If I like want to chain two sonic maximizers together and play them through studio monitors in my car and like what it does, I'll do it. I wouldn't care if Bach pissed his pants over it. If I want to eat crackers in bed and paint my dog orange I'll do it. It probably wouldnt fit in your book Youre not going to convince me its all evil and I'm not going to convince you so lets just leave it at that.
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'Don't drink the Kool-aide' means: If you like the effect, fine. If you are using it because they told you that there is something wrong with your speakers, you might want to know that their marketing department is misrepresenting the truth.

No one is trying to tell you what you can and can't do.
 
I just have a problem with the one big knob that boosts the bass, and the other big knob that boosts the treble... phase alignment is a bit more complex then that... and like I said before, it sounds great on my home stereo (almost as good as a graphic EQ with a big swooping valley through the midband) :rolleyes:
 
The phase-delay thing isn't anything new - but here's the problem:

A lot of (mostly higher-quality) speakers already compensate for it in the design.

By using a BBE, the people who actually have the speakers that sound good enough to hear the difference are being short-changed.
 
I've never had anybody listen to my tunes and then ask me, "Man, why did you use that Maximizer on this?"

Nobody has ever known which of my tunes have a maximizer on them and which dont, if any, unless I tell them that I used one.

If I like what it does, I'll use it. I look at it like a gun.....I'd rather have one and not need it, than need one and not have it. I'm glad I have a BBE in my rack! I use it less than I did in the past, probably cuz I'm getting better at tracking and mixing, but I will never set up my basement studio without one. BBE sure as heck aint goin out of business, and it aint just tone deaf fools and engineering idiots buying those things!
 
soundchaser59 said:
BBE sure as heck aint goin out of business, and it aint just tone deaf fools and engineering idiots buying those things!
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yea, but without them, BBE would be losing their biggest market.

.
 
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