Sonar axis of audio tour/some thoughts

  • Thread starter Thread starter acidrock
  • Start date Start date
acidrock

acidrock

GO PACKERS!
I went to the Sonar demonstration tonight at Mars music in Milwaukee and here are some thoughts...

First the good,
I liked the representitive from Waves,given the short amount of time he did an okay job and was about as honest as a salesman could be.
The demonstrations were a bit weak,but how can you really find out about a plug in with out getting your hands on it yourself and using it.
The really good part was the two week demo cd that I won't be installing until I'm ready for some final mixing.:D

Now the part I'm a little torn about,
I love Sonar and would reccommend it to anyone.
Also I realise that salesmen have a job to do and competitors to deal with.
The part that makes me a bit uneasy is they leave the learning curve portion completely out of the demonstration.Now I suppose this is understandable and given the variety of setups and needs of the consumer it makes it impossible to cover all the bases.
Having said that the part that's a little decieving is that they show you all the cool stuff you can do with Sonar but never gave an explanation of what it's going to take to get this performance out of your system.
The rep was playing software synths and made no mention about wdm drivers or latency until he overheard me informing a fellow attendee and even then he breezed over this.
Now to us forumites this may seem like old news,but to a starry eyed beginner it can be extremly misleading,sometimes a person does'nt have to lie they just don't have to give you the "whole truth"
"You mean I can't get the same performance as the demonstration on my Dell pc I bought four years ago?
I think it's like the guy who thinks he's getting this really hot chick but then when the booze wears off and her makeup is washed off he finds out what he's really getting into.
I may be a little more sensitive about this than most people because my initial experience of computer recording was very painful,due mainly to the aforementioned reasons.
As he switched from demonstrating sonar to waves plugins to native instruments dxi's he restarted the computer each time,but did not explain his motives for doing so.(Perhaps to avoid a badly timed crash?)
He also went demoed a dxi laden project but moved the latency slider way down after closing it to do real time demonstation of the synths.No explanation given.(Once again to avoid a dropout or worse)
Maybe I'm being a bit sensitive but I think most people would appreciate a little more up front information about what they're getting into.

I myself had a horribly unproductive period that was only really solved when I joined this forum.

I also asked the rep if the cakewalk people could stop in on this forum once in awhile but I got the response I expected and was basically blown off.

What I'd really like to see is a no-holds barred tech support cage match between Dachay2tnr and one of their guys.
Now that would be something!:cool:
 
new computer

Hello my name is derrick,
I am one of the star eyed attendees of a sonar demostration.
I bought sonar 1xl and a inexpesive sound card by terratec 2496, I had all kind of prblems with drop outs and latency. I want to open up a in home production studio so I up graded everything I am now running sonar 2.0 xl with a delta 1010 audiocard , my computer is a dual monitor ,dual amd 1800 cpus1 gig ddr ram all on a tyan s2460 motherboard. I need help please I have no idea hoe to set my system up for optimum performance i STILL GET DROP OUTS , NO worse sonar just shuts off completely. in reality can my system handle 24 or morew tracks of audio with plug in effects on each track with out shutting down.?

please help

Derrick


p,s I am also running windows xp pro
 
Re: new computer

derrickdc said:
NO worse sonar just shuts off completely. in reality can my system handle 24 or morew tracks of audio with plug in effects on each track with out shutting down.?

Thanks for coming forward! I have the same problem with Sonar meltdown and I think that the reps would have faced the same thing if they didn't take necessary precautions. If they had a clinic on how to avoid the inevitable Sonar shutdown, that I'd attend! So far I've noticed that Sonar 2.0 crashes less than 1.0 for me. I've also gotten better about closing my projects. I hit the midi refresh and turn off the audio engine before closing a project. Not sure if this helps but at least it makes me feel better. Kind of like rubbing a rabbits foot. They should ship a rabbits foot with the product come to think of it.

Do check out the links on optimization cause some things can really help. Like turning off your system sounds and such.
 
As much as I love Sonar (I think it's the best package out there) I don't really like their sales tactics very much. The way they convince you that you're really getting something for the extra money when you buy the "XL" version is some pretty good marketing. Another thing that bothers me is all of these Demo programs. I would rather not get any DEMO programs myself. To me it's more marketing BS to get more money out of you. On the other hand, it's typical of all sales people to promise you the moon. You have to take it all with a grain of salt and do your research.
 
djc said:
The way they convince you that you're really getting something for the extra money when you buy the "XL" version is some pretty good marketing.

The equalizer and compressor that come with the sonar 2 XL are pretty nice. The drum sampler was a big dissapointment cause you gotta pop 60 bucks to stay current on the version upgrades. That, I thought was really misleading and slimy!
 
I attended the tour tonight. I had planned all summer to purchase Logic with the new computer I have been planning to put together but when Apple purchased them and dropped the windows platform Sonar went to the top of my list.

As far as the presentation tonight . . . I could have done without some of the time spent on how exhautively you can edit the softsynths, but the basic program itself was impressive and I purchased it. If anyone is interested in Sonar you won't beat the Axis Tour deal. They offered a one night price of $199 for Sonar XL. I grabbed it.

Now we did ask our rep what system he was running the program off. Get this . . . dual 2 gig pentium processors with a gig of ram. No shortage of power there . . . needless to say our guy didn't have to power down during the presentation.

I realize that I won't get the response I saw tonight but I am not walking away starry-eyed. I'm putting together a 2.4 gig P4 with 512 of ram so I think I will be more than ok for my needs.

All in all it was a pretty good demo. Yeah it was more sales pitch than objective but as long as you know that going in you can get a big picture of what the program can do.
 
JoelEric26 said:
They offered a one night price of $199 for Sonar XL. I grabbed it.


you got quite a deal for sure considering that i just spent 169 to upgrade from 1xl to 2xl!
 
For what it's worth - I am running one 1.8 GHz P-4, Intel chipset 1Gig RAM, 7200rmp 80Gig EIDE HD's with an Aardvark Direct Pro 24/96 sound card.......

I haven't seen the tour, but I can do anything you are talking about without having to reboot. The flakiest thing in my config is the device drivers from Aardvark for the audio card.......

Since applying the latest patches for Sonar, I can run about 40 tracks of audio, twenty odd track based effects, Reason and LiveSynthPro, (loaded with a 144Mb soundfont), inserted into the synth rack, a couple of instances of the ReValver thing and a mastering compressor and eq on the three virtual mains.

This peaks out about 75% CPU load.

The best config thing I found was the I/O cache size runs best with my HD's, (Win2K-NTFS-7200rpm-EIDE), if I set it to 1,024 - way above the 64k, 128k or 256k that the help file recommends. Drops the hard drive load from 50-65% to S.F.A.!

All wanking aside - it's half past midnight on Friday night, I have been at work all day, came home at 6:00pm turned on Sonar and have been into it ever since. This program rocks. I love it. My wife hates it. It gives me the ability to create stuff that I had only ever heard in my head before. Buy it.

Marketing is always marketing - that shit is as true of the PC world as it is of anything else where someone is trying to make a buck.

For $199 bucks, I am kicking myself at the $250 upgrade I bought earlier this year!

:) Q.
 
Yeah that $199 price is a kick in the ass to all the faithful cakewalk users,but to a new customer that's just one unfuckingbelievable price.
What with the competitive upgrades and these prices I've got to wonder if Cakewalk is trying to put the big squeeze on the competition.
Damn I bought prosuite with the ultra-forgetable musicians crapbox.Then I upgraded to sonar1 and sonar2.
That's a lotta clams.:(
Now to see sonar2xl for $199.....ouch that smarts!

Sonar does rock though and there's no use crying over spilled milk,so I guess I'll just wait for sonar3 and get sucked in by that cakewalk marketing machine once again.:rolleyes:
 
I think anyone coming to Sonar from Logic is in for some culture shock!
1 It ain't pretty.
2 The midi side is bloody awful.
3 The Audio side is one of the best.

Getting a pc to record real time audio is not automatic whatever software you have. But you are safest if you have an Intel chipset.

I have mine working pretty solid (AMD duron/win2k/etc) but my installation had got a bit messy and I really should reinstall from a fresh format - but I'm dreading having to go through all the windows optimisations and patches and all the countless reboots that entails.

That sound clicking/pops problem is common if your amd chip is running on a via chipset mobo. Do a search for "via pci latency patch". That usually cures it.

When it comes to audio multitracking, I don't think Sonar can be beaten. I was thinking of getting a hardware control surface for mixing with but it's so much better just to drag Sonars mix envelopes around. Much as I hate working with a mouse, this makes a hardware mixer redundant.
 
OK guys, the Axis of Audio tour is coming to NJ tomorrow night. Here's my question:
I'm pretty familiar with Sonar - having owned it since it was first released (and having owned PA9 prior to that). However, you can always teach on old dog some new tricks.

Should I bother going? Am I going to learn anything? Or is this just a pitch to sell a product that I already own?

The GC store where the demo is being held is about 40 mintues from my house. Not a disaster, but not down the street either. I just don't want to waste my time. Thoughts?
 
dachay2tnr said:
OK guys, the Axis of Audio tour is coming to NJ tomorrow night. Here's my question:
I'm pretty familiar with Sonar - having owned it since it was first released (and having owned PA9 prior to that). However, you can always teach on old dog some new tricks.

Should I bother going? Am I going to learn anything? Or is this just a pitch to sell a product that I already own?

The GC store where the demo is being held is about 40 mintues from my house. Not a disaster, but not down the street either. I just don't want to waste my time. Thoughts?

U know how it goes most the time. Salesman only knows the demo he`s learned to put on most the time. Occasionly there`s a tech rep handy to answer the hard questions while the other one does his thing. Seems like you handle the tech rep'n here really well yourself. But, on the other hand, sometimes you get free stuff...
 
Dachay,
as much as I criticised it in my previous post's the rep did a good job demo'ing the cyclone dxi,which is actually pretty cool.I had not used it before and don't know if I will any time soon,but it's definitely a powerful tool and worth learning.
There should be a Native instruments rep and a Waves rep there too and you might get something out of that.
But as previously stated the emphasis is sales,sales,sales.
 
Oh yeah,he guy had free t-shirts but no extra large.....

inconsiderate bastards! :rolleyes:
 
I went last Thurs. I don't think the guy demonstrated anything I was interested in that I couldn't already do with Sonar 1.3.
I was looking for an on the spot upgrade to 2.0 (79 bucks online - good deal), but they were only doing the XL for $199 thing Acidrock mentioned. That is a good deal also.
I got a tee shirt, ha ha! But what I really want is my Sonar ball cap back that I left at the movies 4 months ago.:mad:
Mike, if you don't go just to badger the guy then you have no sense of adventure.........gotta go. Diapers.:eek:
 
ChuckU said:
Mike, if you don't go just to badger the guy then you have no sense of adventure.

OK, how are these for starters:

My friend told me Cubase rocks and Sonar sucks. Should I buy Cubase?

I lost my dcpjdlk755impfe.wav file. Where can I find it?

I bought Sonar last week and it doesn't run very well on my Intel 386 with 640K memory. Do I need to upgrade to a 486??

Why can't I use VST plugins in Sonar? What do you mean I have to buy more software!!!

How do I get a serial number for the copy of Sonar I got on Morpheus last night? It won't seem to run without it. And can you guys send me a manual for it?

I have this 87 track project that I've been working on for eight months. Last night I copied the file 87Track.cwp to a CD for backup so I could reformat my hard drive. Today when I restored the file, I can't hear any sound or see any wave pictures, and I get an error message (something about can't locate audio). Do I need to change a setting somewhere?


Anything else?? :D :D :D
 
Re: new computer

derrickdc said:
I need help please I have no idea hoe to set my system up for optimum performance i STILL GET DROP OUTS , NO worse sonar just shuts off completely. in reality can my system handle 24 or morew tracks of audio with plug in effects on each track with out shutting down.?

Sorry to hear of your problems. I am running the Terratec 2496 now with Win2k and Sonar 2xl with no problems. I don't have an answer but here are some ideas:

1. If you go to the Terratec (I know your are running a diff. card now) downloads section for the 2496 there is a detailed document regarding the procedure needed to tweak Sonar and your card. Follow it to completely.

2. Re: Dual CPU's. I may be wrong but doesn't your software need to know how to use a dual CPU system? You might want to investigate this.

3. Re: Sonar Shutting off. Did you install your OS with the idea of producing audio? Here is my point: Before, I was running Win98se (I know shitty os) that was just a regular computer then I upgraded hardware/drivers then it got real unstable. Sonar would crash. So I bought a new HD, installed Win2k and just my audio apps along with other apps like MS office and Quicken. Now it's very stable.

4. Check with your audio card mfg and see if there are any conflicts with your motherboard's chipset. Via had some problems with audio about 1.5 years ago. Make sure you are running with the latest bios and audio and video card drivers.

5 The only other thing is start slowly stripping down your machine to see if can find the offending component. Pain in the ass.

In this situation I always in stall a fresh OS on a new harddrive then I drag over the data from the old to the new and use the Old for audio storage.

I hope this helps
jack
 
Qwerty said:

The best config thing I found was the I/O cache size runs best with my HD's, (Win2K-NTFS-7200rpm-EIDE), if I set it to 1,024 - way above the 64k, 128k or 256k that the help file recommends. Drops the hard drive load from 50-65% to S.F.A.!
Q.

Hey Qwerty, refresh my memory. I use Win2k, where do I go to change my HD's cache size? Is this for your C drive for applications or for a seperate audio drive? So you set it for 1,024k? So like a 1 meg. Great tip. Thanks

jack
 
To derrickdc:

I forgot to mention in my post above I am running an AMD XP1600 with 768 meg ram, ATI radion dual head vid card, 60 gig Seagate 7200 rpm HD for only audio.

My current project has 21 tracks so far. All tracks run start to finish. I have no plugins used so far (all done in Fruityloops before hand) and my CPU runs no more than 10% and my Disk usage is at around 44%. I need to optimize my HD I think. Currently my latency is at 30msec. I rarely get drop outs. My synth programming is done in Fruity which uses ASIO drivers so my latency is around 5 sec. So I keep Sonar's at around 30 just to be conservative.

I hope this comparison helps.

jack
 
Back
Top