sometimes you dont have to use expensive mics.

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manning1

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ive recorded with some pretty expensive mics in my time , and let me tell you. sometimes thats not what you need.
ive got an old no name asian mic here that does great lead vocals with the right voice and cuts through mixes perfectly.
sometimes a little hamburger with steak can sound very good.
i mention this because having done more than 800 records in my time - one thing ive learnt is its often more important how you use thetools. imho - inexpensive mics can be used effectively
if you really learn mic positioning techniques well.
the problem is today imho everyone isoften too lazy on working on their mic positioning.
 
i've had better results with a cad m9 vs a u87ai, 414tl and a few other mics, thats why i picked one up.. when it comes to vox.. i know not everyones voice is gonna sound good on just one mic.. so i have others.
 
I agree that you don't always have to use expensive mics.

But sometimes, it is a good idea. Particularly if/when you want it to sound really good. :D As a whole, the really good and worthwhile tools out there tend to come with a higher price tag.
 
If anyone doesn't want their expensive mic's they can send them to me... I'll take them, no questions asked. :D
 
But the top studio's have access to top Mics and esoteric pree's etc. etc.---

SO why do the majority of modern recordings sound as bad as they do ????
 
wilkee said:
But the top studio's have access to top Mics and esoteric pree's etc. etc.---

SO why do the majority of modern recordings sound as bad as they do ????
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Because the talent in front of the mics, and the engineer and producer behind the board are going to determine what the sound is. All the gear is nothing more than a set of tools - better tools can make it easier or quicker or more painless to 'build' something, but it's the architect and builder that determine what the building is like.
 
manning1 said:
i mention this because having done more than 800 records
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very impressive.....demos? commercial releases? I don't think I've even listened to 800 records in my lifetime, and I'm in my 40's..


manning1 said:

one thing ive learnt is its often more important how you use thetools. imho - inexpensive mics can be used effectively
if you really learn mic positioning techniques well.
the problem is today imho everyone isoften too lazy on working on their mic positioning.
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Let's be real....the reason most of us use budget mics is we are trying to milk the best out of what we can afford....I'd much rather have a Blue Bottle than an Oktava mk319, but that's all I can really afford right now with all the other gear I've bought...plus, I'm not really making a living at this at the moment...
 
I totally agree - it's very easy to get caught up in *gear* obsession, forgetting that the performance of a great song is much more important than having all the best kit.
Having said that, there IS a certain standard of equipment you can't really fall below, unless it's for a deliberate effect.
 
i know i'm the type that loves to have different gear.. the more the better.. but its not always about that.. its the ear.. i 've done better mixes on even 20/20's thn i have on adams.. just b/c my ears got use to the 20/20's.. soon i'll have some 1032's.. and i'll have to get use to those..
for me there are a few things i focus on when recording..
Mic pre
Mic
mic positioning

after using the hd192.. now i focus on having quality converters more..
one mic that stands out to me for being cheap but sounding great.. and with a quality pre may sound even better....Studio projects B1.. an $80 mic that can hang with mics $500+
 
A lot of times when I read posts like "what mic/pre/comp/whatever should I buy next" I wonder if the writer really has done everything he can to make best out of his current equipment or is he just trying to take the easy way out. I mean, how many of us can honestly say that they have reached such level of knowledge and experience that their gear is the only thing holding them back? I know I can´t.

It used to be easy. You had a 4-track and SM57s. Next step would have been an 8-track (with suitable mixer) and something in the class of AKG C414... a step so huge that you had to be really serious about recording (or dirty rich) to even dream about taking it. So we had to get by with what we had. And some of us did get by pretty damn good! I have heard pretty amazing recordings made with a cassette 4-track and few 57s.

I am also an amateur photographer. One thing I have learned is that sometimes you can take professional quality pictures with a cheap pocket camera. Sure, it has it´s limitations but in certain situations it´s all you need. But if you want to be prepared for everything, then you need a pro rig. Does this sound familiar?
 
Let me get this straight!
Im not a mic person so be patient. What’s the difference between a marshal and a Neumann. Does the tried and true Neumann produce higher fidelity... and clearer picture? What is so better about it. I cant get myself to buy an 80 dollar mic. Its just too cheap. I cant convince myself to buy anything other than Shure or Audio Tech.
 
There is a level of quality there that you are paying for. I can hear a definitive difference between my Soundeluxe and the cheaper LD condesors I have had. It sits better in the mix most times too. And, I can put 10 of them together and they are consistent, so you always know what to expect out of a Soundeluxe. That cant be said for some brands.
I think they do sound better, yes. Better guts, better QC, better sound. BUt you pay for it, no doubt.
 
We have expensive mics and we have inexpensive mics. The inexpensive mics get used as much as the expensive mics.

We cut a track on a rocker girl the other day. To select the right mic for her we ran through API pres and put up a TLM 103, ADK TC, AKG 414 TLII and a Red5 Audio RV8. The RV8 was best mic on her voice in the track and got the job. The RV8 costs £99.

On the other hand, we have expensive mic pres and we have inexpensive mics pres. The expensive mic pres get used all the time. The inexpensive mic pres sit in the closet.

Dan Richards
Digital Pro Sound
The Listening Sessions
 
tjohnston said:
Im not a mic person so be patient. What’s the difference between a marshal and a Neumann. Does the tried and true Neumann produce higher fidelity... and clearer picture? What is so better about it.
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Tube brings up some good points, but another big one is that better quality mics just take EQ a lot better. You can't bring out or shape what a mic doesn't capture well in the first place. And it's not just a tracking or mic positioning issue, either, because bad mics can rear their ugly head much farther down the line; even at the mixing phase.

If a mic like a Marshall mxl V67, for example, captures nothing but mud from 200-500 hz, then your mix will sound muddier if/when you try boosting that range in your mix, and you might not even know where it's coming from. In that sense, the natural response curves a mic exhibits might be hiding some of it's deficiencies, only to be exposed when you later try to bring something else out of it.

Another example: Track a bunch of stuff with an akg c1000 or an early Rode NT1, and good luck trying to bring more air out of your mix without also bringing out some harsh nasties, courtesy of whatever tracks that mic was used on.

This can throw off the entire balance of your mix and limit your options, because now you're kinda' forced to work around the deficiencies of your gear, eventually settling on compromizes and the lesser of evils -- rather than what you really want from it.

But then, good mics don't necessarily have to be expensive, and bad mics aren't always the cheap ones. But unfortunately, this does happen to be the case more often than not.
 
Which mic/pre/etc.???

I consider myself a complete expert at buying low cost ($2,500 to $5,000), high value cars that typically run over 200,000 miles. This is MUCH harder than running out and spending $25,000 to achieve the same reliability, even driveability. I think you have to know more to buy "better and cheaper" than "better and expensive."

I think the questions of which mic, etc. is particularly important when shopping in the budget market. True, one still needs to be discerning at higher price points, but I think it's harder to get the right stuff when funds are significantly limited. That's why I value this board.

A also think that digital technology has made technique much more of the determining factor in final quality than ever before. I make radio commercials on my own equipment that sounds far better than radio station studio gear that I had to use 10 years ago. Just a quality reel-to-reel deck alone cost several thousand $$ not all that long ago -- more than my whole setup did 6 months ago...

We can debate the ins and outs of various mics and pres, but in general we are blessed with an abundance of fine tools.
 
"sometimes you dont have to use expensive mics. "

Happy to hear that. Now we can all stop being afraid of using our SM57's.
 
DigitMus said:
Because the talent in front of the mics, and the engineer and producer behind the board are going to determine what the sound is. All the gear is nothing more than a set of tools - better tools can make it easier or quicker or more painless to 'build' something, but it's the architect and builder that determine what the building is like.
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That was my point.
Give George Martin an SP B1 to work with back in the 60's and the beatles would still have sounded great !!!
 
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