Some Ribbon Mic Questions

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samth3mancgp

samth3mancgp

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I just got the first of two Nady RSM-4 ribbon mics that I am planning on doing the physical (removing extra mesh and maybe replacing with thinner ribbon) and electronic (transformer swap) mods with at some point. but for now I'd just like to make sure that it is working properly.

It showed up from eBay packaged very well. in the original padded box. It turns out the previous owner already removed the inner mesh from the front of the mic, so that part is done.

What I can see is that the ribbon is being pulled more towards one of the magnets than the other.. is this alright? i think it may be touching it. the ribbon is not as loose as the pictures I see about improperly tensioned ribbons online. It seems to work fine. the proximity effect is VERY heavy on this mic and I can hear the figure 8 pattern picking up things on the other side of the room as i move it about.
 
Actually, the RSM 4 doesn't have any mesh on the inside.
That would be the RSM 2.
The RSM 5 has a lighter ribbon and costs the same as the RSM 4.
Great microphone for instruments.
Repairs aside, I'm kind of wondering if it wouldn't be more cost effective to return the RSM 4 and replace it with a 5.
 
I was thinking about switching the ribbon on the RSM-4s that I got with a thinner one anyway. There are lots of mods for these apparently. I just did a test with acoustic guitar and it is kind of boomy in the low midrange with a lack of highs. Like I said the ribbon is being pulled to one side by one of the magnets. maybe not enough tension? The RSM-5 seems to be the same with just a thinner ribbon. I also want to put Lundahl transformers in them at some point.
 
Yes. A much thinner ribbon and a much flatter response for that reason.
The RSM 4 is good if you want a dark sound or for bass cabinets, that's why I'm suggesting the RSM 5. You would modify the 5 but without changing the ribbon.
 
I won't be able to return these as I bought them on eBay :( I got 2 RSM-4s for under $100 total so I'm happy with my purchase. It's going to cost more than the mics for these mods (especially those transformers) but I've heard that the results are great.

Do you have any suggestions on where to get some good aluminum leaf? How many microns thickness is common/desirable? Also any tips on how to re tension this ribbon that's on it now?

I'd like to try it on a guitar cab, I've heard that ribbons help get a good sound from a really distorted amp without sounding too harsh!
 
Are these ribbon mics supposed to have tons of low end? That's all that I'm getting from this one.

It does take EQ pretty well though. Once the highs are EQed back in it sounds very natural compared to EQing highs on a dynamic mic like a 57 on an acoustic instrument. I re tensioned the ribbon a little and repositioned it as described in the instructions on This thread. It is now it is now evenly tensioned on either side and not touching the magnets anymore.
 
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That's what I'm telling you.
They are supposed to have tons of low end.
It's a $70 - $80 microphone as is the RSM 5.
The RSM 5 is 2 micron thick ribbon (That's ideal for regular acoustics) and the RSM 4 is 6 micron. That's heavy.
 
Alright I understand that. I've really started to warm up to the sound this gives though. responds to EQ really well. Maybe this is common sense, but I was doing my tests on acoustic with the mic positioned horizontally.. That would make the ribbon sag towards one of the magnets and not vibrate properly.. When I tried It on vocals with it suspended upright I got my high end back and very smooth mids. When I went back to acoustic with it positioned upright It sounded still very boomy, but a bit more focused than before, Eqed really well.

I think I will stick with them as is for now. Replacing the Ribbon will actually be last on my list for the mods now. Or maybe I'll just pick up 2 RSM-5s in the future. Keep these ones for louder sources like guitar cabs or experiment outside a kick since they have more durable ribbons. Do you think the RSM-5s would work with the same Lundhal Transformer as the RSM-4?

Thanks for the help man.
 
Now you're coming round.
The proximity effect is much less off axis so that's probably why you're getting more high end.
I have an RSM 5, 2 RSM 2s and an RSM8A. I gave the RSM 4 to a bass player friend.
I likes me Nadies! ;)
 
Yea I was a follower of the "Nady and Behringer are terrible stay away from them" group but this RSM Series has made me change my mind! I'll try some off axis on stuff now to see how it goes.
 
Low end and proximity effect

Well, from my experience in making ribbon mics and reribboning stock ones I could make the conclusion, that Your ribbon is overtensioned. Huge proximity effect is a very characteristic symptom. If You tune a ribbon right way, it is much less articulated. In general, ribbon mics are naturally pretty flat in a working range, so Your response should be even if everything is right. Another thing is that You will always have high frequency roll off, but it is not the same as having bass boost, when resonant frequency gets high enough to disturb the working low end range.

Regarding retensioning the stock ribbon - forget it. It is hardly possible to do after the ribbon is installed.

Replacing the transformer might be a very good idea, as cheap mics come with very cheap transformers and I suppose You will have quite an improvement. You mentioned Lundahl, but I would suggest You to try out Cinemag CM-9887. They are cheaper, but don't sound worse. Coloration differs from Lundahl of course, but Cinemag feels nicer to my taste.

Hope it helps!
Artur.
 
I have both the 2 and the 4. The 4 I've used on guitar amps with great results and the 2 on some vocals.
Just yesterday I almost purchased the MXL R144 ribbon for guitar amps but said to myself ....why? I've already got these (the 4s two of them) and passed on it.



:cool:
 
Artur Fisher said:
Well, from my experience in making ribbon mics and reribboning stock ones I could make the conclusion, that Your ribbon is overtensioned. Replacing the transformer might be a very good idea, as cheap mics come with very cheap transformers and I suppose You will have quite an improvement. You mentioned Lundahl, but I would suggest You to try out Cinemag CM-9887. They are cheaper, but don't sound worse. Coloration differs from Lundahl of course, but Cinemag feels nicer to my taste.

Hope it helps!
Artur.
Click to expand...


In my experience, with chinese mics, under tension is a more common problem . . . in any case under tension is fairly easy to diagnose . . . just rotate the mic gently and if you hear the ribbon against the magnet it's under tensioned

and while it is purely a matter of personal taste I've never found a single cinemag transformer to be superior to Lundahl. on some pieces of gear the difference will not be huge but tends to be noticable
 
Artur Fisher said:
Well, from my experience in making ribbon mics and reribboning stock ones I could make the conclusion, that Your ribbon is overtensioned. Huge proximity effect is a very characteristic symptom. If You tune a ribbon right way, it is much less articulated.
Click to expand...

Dear Artur,

Sorry, but this part is a complete mess.
The proximity effect has nothing to do with the ribbon tension, as it is a physical phenomenon of the pressure gradient operation. When you over-tension the ribbon, you limit the low freq. response. In this case it subjectively perceived as if the proximity less articulated. In reality, the proximity is not changed and I would not call that kind of tuning the "right way".

In general, ribbon mics are naturally pretty flat in a working range, so Your response should be even if everything is right.
Click to expand...

If we are talking "naturally", then that would be the case with only very thin ribbons (under 1um), which are sufficiently damped by the loading air. Because of self response, in the thicker than 1um ribbons the lower mids will be accentuated in the lower mids. For flat response those ribbons will need whether damping screens, electronic methods, or both.

Hopefully, it helps.

Best, M
 
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