Some questions before I build my next computer

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Bad Disciple

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Hi there all!

...hectic time, but technology and science go constantly ahead...

I've got some questions before I build my next computer.
I'll use it for recording and processing music, using Cubase SX3.
I'll be thankful for all the feedback.

ABOUT PROCESSORS:
I've opted to chose between these Intel models:
Core 2 Duo E6850 3.0GHz
(Socket 775 - 3.0GHz - Bus 1333 MHz - 65 nm - 4MB L2 cache - Intel
Virtualization Technology)
or
Core 2 Quad Q6600 2.4GHz
(Socket 775 - 2.4GHz - Bus 1066 MHz - 65 nm - 8MB L2 cache - Intel
Virtualization Technology)?

Is there a big advantage of Quad over Dual cores, now that we're only few
months from the Quad core release ? (And how it comes the higher and newer
Quad Q6600 be slightly cheaper than the older and lower Duo E6850?)

ABOUT SPEED AND CORES:
-Finally... does the dilemma 'more cores, or more clock speed' really exist?
In other words, does a Dual Core with 3.0GH clock speed work 2x3.0GH
for each core which will result in a double summary clock speed =6.0GH?
Or is it that each of the cores works in 3.0GH, thus working separately on
different tasks, which just augments the overall processing speed ?

ABOUT OS AND SOFTWARE:
-Will Windows XP Pro and my software, especially CUBASE SX3 (!)
support and function with the so called Thread-Level-Parallelism (TLP) or
Hyper-Thread technology, or Simultaneous Multi-threading Technology (SMT)
which is required by the Dual or Quad cores?

ABOUT MOTHERBOARDS:
I must chose between the following:
=>Asus P5K
(Socket 775 - Intel® P35 chipset ICH9R - Intel® CoreT2 Quad / CoreT2
Extreme / CoreT2 Duo / Pentium® Extreme / Pentium® D / Pentium® 4
Processors - Dual-channel DDR2 1066/800/667 MHz - 4*SATA/1*SATA
on the Go/ 1394 - Gigabit LAN - 8-channel HD Audio)

=>Asus P5KC
(Socket 775 - Intel® P35 chipset ICH9R - Intel® CoreT2 Quad / CoreT2 Extreme
/ CoreT2 Duo / Pentium® Extreme / Pentium® D / Pentium® 4 Processors -
Dual-channel
DDR2 1066/800/667 MHz or DDR3 1333/1066/800 - 2x1394 - 12xUSB 2.0 - Gigabit
LAN -8-channel HD Audio)

=>Asus P5W DH Deluxe (this one doesn't support the Quad Core or further)

=>Asus P5N32-E SLI
(Socket 775 - NVIDIA SLI Technology - NVIDIA Quad-SLIT Ready - NVIDIA
nForce® 680i SLIT - Dual-channel DDR2 800/667/533 - Support Intel® next
generation 45nm Multi-core CPU - Intel® Quad-core CPU Ready - Intel®
CoreT2 Extreme/CoreT2 Duo Ready - 1333**/1066/800/533MHz - 8 Phase
Power Design SATA Raid - External SATA - Dual Gigabit Lan - Audio 8
channels - IEEE 1394 - Fanless Design)

ABOUT MEMORY:
-Can I use my previous computer's stick of (1GB) DDR 400MH memory
together with new DDR2 1066/800/667MH memory sticks in the other slots,
or it's a crap idea?
-With Double channel architecture, can I leave one pair of slots with
only one stick, or I must always put two sticks?

ABOUT HDs:
I plan to make a RAID0 configuration for faster, fastest... at
7200 (or 10,000 rpm but they're more noisy and heat up).
Top brands are Western Digital and Seagate of what I hear.
But what about Maxtor which is manifactured by Seagate?
And is Samsung also ok, I heard they're silent ?

Huh.... lot of questions... anyway thanks a lot to those who'll have
the courage for feedback.

Bad Disciple
'EN EIDA OTI OYDEN EIDA'
'One thing I know is that nothing I know'. (Sokrates)

Globalization, climate changes, disasters, illnesses, terrorism, wars, famine...
all and more frequent and intensive, drive the humanity to more hectic time,
but technology and science go constantly ahead. Will this help us to avoid
the end? Or will we perish, holding the mouse and the keyboard of our
many-core-brains-almost-reaching-human-intelligence computer, all sinking
in the abyss?
 
shit....you mentioned something about SX3..that much I understoond.


After that??



fuck knows...
 
Memory - think you need to use 2 banks at a time. Doubt you can use your old memory

Cores - dual core is faster but not twice as fast. Can basically perform 2 tasks at once, so won't make one task complete faster I think.

Quad core will need a bigger (noisier) power supply, bigger (noisier) CPU fan

Don't know about the rest
 
i'm wondering about these things myself, though i'm going to get someone else to make the computer for me :)
one thing i have read is that many computer daw's and other music production/editing software aps can only run on one core at a time. something to consider before you pay for a quad or eight core system.
 
I believe that Cubase SX3 will only take advantage of dual core, and not necessarily quad core. At least in such a way that the program is coded to take advantage of these things. There may still be performance increases from quad core though. It would not be a hoorible idea though to make sure that you motherboard is quad core compatible because you just never know when you are going to make the switch. At least this way you do not have to rebuy RAM and Motherboard. Make sure that whichever route you go that you are looking into a good solid power supply. This is often an overlooked part in a system but is also one of the primary contributers to heat and noise, and can directly affect the longevity and even to some degree the stability of your motherboard, CPU and hard drives. As far as memory, I am pretty sure that DDR memory will not fit in a DDR2 slot.

With hard drives I would some serious consideration to NOT striping your drives. Striping two drives together can certainly increase the hard drives sustained throughput, but with current drives I highly doubt that striping will show any true advantage, at least with audio that is. At the very least, if you are going to stripe a couple drives, do not store anything on them, but just copy to it what you need EVERY time you use them. The big problem with striping is that you have files and data being split between two drives. If one of those two drives fails you lost almost everything from BOTH drives. About the only thing you may get lucky enough to keep is some small file that happened to be completely written to one drive only and not the other. Even then, it probably would not be reognized as a file and you would in essence lose that too....
 
Yeah, thanks for the feedback.

I just came back from the Steinberg's Cubase site. It says that "Cubase SX3
supports Extended Multiprocessing and is tweaked to take advantage of the
added power provided by systems with more than two processors, including
the latest DualCore processors from AMD and Intel". But this still doesn't
mean it will take advantage of the Quad Core. So, I've put the question in
Cubase related forums and I wait. So, my dilemma to chose between Core 2
Duo E6850 and Core 2 Quad Q6600 becomes a less dilemma, as the Quad has
almost the same price as the Duo, even slightly cheaper (!?).

About RAID0, I know about all combinations. In fact, I had my last computer
with RAID0 with two Maxtors (8MB cache) and it worked for 3 years without
any failure. Of course, this doesn't mean it doesn't happen. I agree that
RAID0, or combined 1+0, 0+1 is more complex but the multiplicated danger of
failure might be compensated by the better drive speed. On the other hand,
all I'll lose is just the OS and software installations, not my data, which I
store on another drive + backuped. So, what's valid about a single disc is
valid for RAID too, which is the God blessed backup. But I must read some
more about backing up my system with all its programs and configurations
which takes time in case I must re-install everything.

Now, after all the research I did, one question remains without answer.
It's not clear to me if Windows XP is also able to take advantage of the
Hyper-thread, or Similtaneous Multi-thread offered by the Dual and Quad Core
technology, or it will recognize only one core?
It seems I must go in the Microsoft's jungle website to search for it.

Bad Disciple
'EN EIDA OTI OYDEN EIDA'
'One thing I know is that nothing I know'. (Sokrates)
 
Come on, you read and quoted Steinberg's site. Cubase theoretically supports an unlimited amount of processors and - this is the important part - PROGRAMS DO NOT SEE A DIFFERENCE BETWEEN CORES AND PROCESSORS.
 
Also, XP will use cores. It DOES see a difference between cores and processors. Home will use up to one processor with however many core in it, and Pro will use up to two processors with however many cores on them.
 
nVidia have good chipsets but for the purpose of audio, don't jump on the nForce boards. I would go quad core if I would be doing more multi-tasking or extensive work.

Your old memory will not work with your new computer.

I run RAID 0+1 with no flaws for years. WD & Seagates are the top of the line. Samsung does make quiet drives, and so does Hitachi, Hitachi drives are fast. Seagates are reliable w/ newer tech. WD are decent drives, I have raptors in raid.

you got 4 pieces of work, on a dual core machine, 2 works go to each processor. On a quad core, 1 goes to each. Which is faster?? Current processors don't depend on clock speed, but rather how much work can be done per cycle. If you even wanted to, on stock fan you can send your Q6600 to 3ghz and call it a day.

If some programs don't take advantage of quad cores
than oh well....... It'll still take advantage of 2 of them. Same priced processor, 1 with double the cores. Your not loosing anything at all. Save a couple dollars, and buy the quad core, and be more future proof. Also would go with the second motherboard.

=>Asus P5KC
(Socket 775 - Intel® P35 chipset ICH9R - Intel® CoreT2 Quad / CoreT2 Extreme
/ CoreT2 Duo / Pentium® Extreme / Pentium® D / Pentium® 4 Processors -
Dual-channel
DDR2 1066/800/667 MHz or DDR3 1333/1066/800 - 2x1394 - 12xUSB 2.0 - Gigabit
LAN -8-channel HD Audio)

For one, it has support for DDR3. It's using a decent chipset, it has a whole damn bunch of USBs lol, and it has firewire. Common sense right there....

Go buy some memory rated 1066 or near or at 1333, and up your fsb to oc your cpu to 3ghz, and you'll be basically running 2 6850's. which was my last chip before upping to quad core actually...
 
Congratulations! Your system is ready to be built.
We have some recommendations for you highlighted in green below.
My System Details
PROCESSOR Intel® Core™ 2 Q6600 Quad-Core (8MB L2 cache,2.4GHz,1066FSB) edit
OPERATING SYSTEM Genuine Windows® XP Home Edition edit
MEMORY FREE Upgrade! 2GB Dual Channel DDR2 SDRAM at 667MHz- 2DIMMs edit
HARD DRIVE 80GB Serial ATA Hard Drive (7200RPM) w/DataBurst Cache™ edit
OPTICAL DRIVE Free Upgrade: Single Drive 16X CD/DVD Burner (DVD+/-RW) w/ double layer edit
MONITOR No Monitor edit
VIDEO CARD 128MB nVidia GeForce 8300 GS edit
SOUND Integrated 7.1 Channel Audio edit
My Accessories
FLOPPY & MEDIA READER No Floppy Drive Included edit
MODEM No Modem edit
SPEAKERS No speakers (Speakers are required to hear audio from your system) edit
KEYBOARD Dell USB Keyboard edit
MOUSE Dell® 2-button USB mouse edit
My Software
PRODUCTIVITY Microsoft Works 8. DOES NOT INCLUDE MS WORD edit
ONLINE BUSINESS GROWTH TOOLS Free Microsoft Office Live Basics edit
ONLINE BUSINESS GROWTH TOOLS $100 Credit* towards clicks from Microsoft adCenter** edit
SECURITY No Security Subscription (Norton 90-day) edit
My Services & Warranties
WARRANTY & SERVICE 1 Year On-site Economy Plan edit
DIAL-UP INTERNET ACCESS No ISP requested edit
PURCHASE INTENT Purchase is not intended for resale. edit
ALSO INCLUDED WITH YOUR SYSTEM
Miscellaneous 9200
Labels Windows XP™
Digitial Music No Digital Music Software Requested
Digital Photography No Digital Imaging Software Requested
Adobe Software Adobe® Acrobat® Reader 7.0




That is a system you can get at Dell Small Business, for $609, memory isn't the fastest that it could be, but the Quad core chip is alone worth $280~.
 
I'd go for more clock speed, as right now most applications aren't even built to utilize more than 2 cores.. so you'd basically end up with a more expensive but slower dual core if you bought the quad.

lol @ the specs of the post above mine.. 80 gb drive? I can use that up in a couple of weeks...
 
Mistral said:
I'd go for more clock speed, as right now most applications aren't even built to utilize more than 2 cores.. so you'd basically end up with a more expensive but slower dual core if you bought the quad.

lol @ the specs of the post above mine.. 80 gb drive? I can use that up in a couple of weeks...
Click to expand...

What I use...Reaper...can use as many cores as you throw at it....
 
So do I, but not everyone does, nor do they necessarily want to if they've spent hundreds or even thousands on "professional" software.. So what then smart guy.
 
I don't see how Stienberg can say that SX3 takes advantage of the latest anything. don't get me wrong. I use SX3 myself and I wouldn't change it, but they pretty much stopped making updates for it a while ago.
 
A really good place to check is to watch the builds on the nuendo hardware forum. There are a few things there you have to take with a grain of salt, as there are some issues with multi core in cubase and nuendo. But generally those guys are GREAT about setting up compatible rigs. A few years ago, I copied Brian T's dual opteron setup and enjoyed life in a MAJOR way.
 
Mistral said:
So do I, but not everyone does, nor do they necessarily want to if they've spent hundreds or even thousands on "professional" software.. So what then smart guy.
Click to expand...

So then you switch to something that takes advantage of todays modern computing power....

BTW, I bought a dual core laptop for my wife and I, instead of yet another desktop. My quad core dreams will have to wait just a bit longer....
 
Jesus christ.... do any of you read? Cubase SX3 absolutely DOES support quad cores. Want proof?
39195d1186698938-core-2-quad-q6600-help-1.jpg
 
timthetortoise said:
Jesus christ.... do any of you read?
Click to expand...

yes

http://www.google.com/search?q=quad...annel=s&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&hs=xEr

I counter your anectdote with my anectdote

I realize some people are running fine with them, though I do believe the jury is still out on whther the app is actually *utilizing* them. I'd be happy to be proven wrong though.

I'm getting too many questions in my email box about why the dual quad isn't performing as it should in cubase and nuendo to believe otherwise at the moment.
 
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