So no matter how hard I try
- Thread starter palz.
- Start date
mrface2112
Well-known member
Palz--
you've gotten some really good advice here, especially from chessrock.
i think your last statement summed it up--you've got unrealistic expectations for your recording environment and situation.
the first "mistake" most budding (home) recordists make is thinking "how hard can it be?" and expect that their untreated basement, cheap gear, poorly tuned drums and considerable inexperience in the field of recording (and mixing) just won't matter when it comes to "recording an album".
nothing could be farther from the truth. the reason time "real" studio time is so expensive is b/c they've handled sorting out all of those "problems" above. plus, you're paying for an engineer who has considerably more experience doing this.
so really, as a home recordist looking to "record an album" you have a couple options.
1. Pay for "real" studio time and concentrate solely on the playing aspect.
or
2. Invest money in fixing the room you're recording in.
2a. Invest money in good gear.
2b. Learn how to properly tune drums, intonate guitars and get your equipment in the proper "shape" for recording.
2c. Invest lots of time in learning how to do things right in terms of recording and mixing.
2d. Deal with tracking down technical issues and their inevitable drain on your performances--nothing kills the vibe of a great performance when you realise that the gain on the mic pre for the snare was 2dB too loud and you clipped it occasionally throughout that keeper track.
Lastly, don't get fooled by the "bruce springsteen recorded Nebraska on a Tascam Portastudio" nonsense. Sure he may have recorded some of the basic tracks on it, but they were dumped on to "real" tape at a very high-end studio, and eq'd, mixed and mastered by VERY skilled professionals with VERY good equipment.
The same goes for Alanis Morrisette's "Jagged Little Pill". Sure it was recorded "at home" on 16-bit blackface ADATs, but the "home studio" was Mutt Lange's (which is outfitted better than most mid-high range studios) and they spent lots of time on arrangements and performances. and for example, the vocal mic was typically an AKG C12, which costs probably more than your car did.
anyway......the point being......you either need to temper your expectations a considerable bit and accept what you're going to get out of your recording environment, gear and skills...........or you need to bite the bullet and pony up some cash to devote to your recording space and gear or use it for studio time.
there is no magic bullet.
cheers,
wade
you've gotten some really good advice here, especially from chessrock.
i think your last statement summed it up--you've got unrealistic expectations for your recording environment and situation.
the first "mistake" most budding (home) recordists make is thinking "how hard can it be?" and expect that their untreated basement, cheap gear, poorly tuned drums and considerable inexperience in the field of recording (and mixing) just won't matter when it comes to "recording an album".
nothing could be farther from the truth. the reason time "real" studio time is so expensive is b/c they've handled sorting out all of those "problems" above. plus, you're paying for an engineer who has considerably more experience doing this.
so really, as a home recordist looking to "record an album" you have a couple options.
1. Pay for "real" studio time and concentrate solely on the playing aspect.
or
2. Invest money in fixing the room you're recording in.
2a. Invest money in good gear.
2b. Learn how to properly tune drums, intonate guitars and get your equipment in the proper "shape" for recording.
2c. Invest lots of time in learning how to do things right in terms of recording and mixing.
2d. Deal with tracking down technical issues and their inevitable drain on your performances--nothing kills the vibe of a great performance when you realise that the gain on the mic pre for the snare was 2dB too loud and you clipped it occasionally throughout that keeper track.
Lastly, don't get fooled by the "bruce springsteen recorded Nebraska on a Tascam Portastudio" nonsense. Sure he may have recorded some of the basic tracks on it, but they were dumped on to "real" tape at a very high-end studio, and eq'd, mixed and mastered by VERY skilled professionals with VERY good equipment.
The same goes for Alanis Morrisette's "Jagged Little Pill". Sure it was recorded "at home" on 16-bit blackface ADATs, but the "home studio" was Mutt Lange's (which is outfitted better than most mid-high range studios) and they spent lots of time on arrangements and performances. and for example, the vocal mic was typically an AKG C12, which costs probably more than your car did.
anyway......the point being......you either need to temper your expectations a considerable bit and accept what you're going to get out of your recording environment, gear and skills...........or you need to bite the bullet and pony up some cash to devote to your recording space and gear or use it for studio time.
there is no magic bullet.
cheers,
wade
Hey Palz
I just thought I should point out that, while I don't know what kind of 8-track Pavement used (that could mean a lot of things), any 8-track is a world away from your Porta. That's why I suggested that you try to master that Fostex. 8 tracks, especially if it's 8 simultaneous tracks, opens up a whole different world of possibilities for you.
Also, I'm sure they weren't doing it with 2 NT-1s and a 58 in somebody's untreated basement. You might be able to do it with those 3 mics, or you might be able to do it in that space, but I have serious doubts as to your ability to do both.
Unfortunately, what you really, really need the most (IMO) is more mics. You can rig up ways to deaden the crap out of your space, but isolation won't do any good if you don't have enough mics to cover the individual instruments.
All you have is those 3 mics, right? Any buddies you can borrow any from?
I just thought I should point out that, while I don't know what kind of 8-track Pavement used (that could mean a lot of things), any 8-track is a world away from your Porta. That's why I suggested that you try to master that Fostex. 8 tracks, especially if it's 8 simultaneous tracks, opens up a whole different world of possibilities for you.
Also, I'm sure they weren't doing it with 2 NT-1s and a 58 in somebody's untreated basement. You might be able to do it with those 3 mics, or you might be able to do it in that space, but I have serious doubts as to your ability to do both.
Unfortunately, what you really, really need the most (IMO) is more mics. You can rig up ways to deaden the crap out of your space, but isolation won't do any good if you don't have enough mics to cover the individual instruments.
All you have is those 3 mics, right? Any buddies you can borrow any from?
well we really weren't looking to record everything at once, we'd always been trying the track-by-track thing.
the one friend I have who knows recording I mentioned earlier, he records in his drummers house, on his laptop using a program called Sonar I think, and did some stuff for us last summer that sounded as good as a lower end studio with just one condensor and one dynamic. He recorded us doing the drums and guitar direct live, then overdubbing a guitar direct, and a bass direct. It'd be more likely for us to somehow get some time with him to record this summer, and me bring my mics over for him to use if he so needed.
the one friend I have who knows recording I mentioned earlier, he records in his drummers house, on his laptop using a program called Sonar I think, and did some stuff for us last summer that sounded as good as a lower end studio with just one condensor and one dynamic. He recorded us doing the drums and guitar direct live, then overdubbing a guitar direct, and a bass direct. It'd be more likely for us to somehow get some time with him to record this summer, and me bring my mics over for him to use if he so needed.
dkelley
Active member
not sure if you're still trying to figure out some micing improvements, but on the really cheap you could ebay a peavey pvm 520 mic which is one of the best kick mics I've ever used and you can prob get one for like $50 or so. they're the poor man's RE 20, and sound absolutely amazing, also great for rock vocals (much like an SM7).
Cheers,
Don
Cheers,
Don
palz. said:
When he recorded you before, was it at the same place you're at now?
Was it the same drums/cymbals? Because that can make a big difference, too.
If he responds to your email, just ask him if he remembers how he miced the drums. If what he did worked, then even if you can't get him to do it for you, he should be able to give you some pointers via email of things to try.
hairylarry
New member
What model Fostex
palz,
What model is your Fostex. They have some seriously good equipment that's not as hard to use as you think it's going to be.
Does your band play together and sound good? I come out of field recording experience recording bands live. I have made many excellent tapes using one or two mics. But I've always said if the band can play music I can record them.
Bands used to playing live are not always good at tracking parts the way studio musicians do.
Thanks,
Hairy Larry
palz,
What model is your Fostex. They have some seriously good equipment that's not as hard to use as you think it's going to be.
Does your band play together and sound good? I come out of field recording experience recording bands live. I have made many excellent tapes using one or two mics. But I've always said if the band can play music I can record them.
Bands used to playing live are not always good at tracking parts the way studio musicians do.
Thanks,
Hairy Larry
junplugged
Taking the slow road
reverse the phase on each mic, one at a time, then 2 at a time, it'll make a difference
then if it's stilll not good, move the mics, repeat the phase checks
then if it's stilll not good, move the mics, repeat the phase checks