SO new at this IN NEED OF HELP....

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Well the mic cables won't cause the latency. The latency is caused by the the conversion from analog to digital and from digital back to analog. It also depends on your computer also. I use the Line 6 GX, which is the lowest model and I don't have a problem with latency. My computer is a 2.33 Core2Duo, 4 GB RAM, 7200 rpm hdd, etc, etc.

Right on! I'm running a little less on RAM than you are, this is what I'm a a bit worried about. But I think it should be solid.

X2 Dual Core 3800+, 3GB of RAM, 32 bit Windows 7.



I think I'm gonna go with a Line 6 and just 1 XLR mic, maybe buy another mic in the future. Btw, the Line 6 looks like it does pretty wild things when you actually plug a guitar into it. Note to self: get an electric acoustic in the future!
 
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Your computer is fine. I think you'll be happy with the Line 6.
 
+1 for the line 6...it also comes with vocal pre amps and effects...real quality stuff for the $$
 
Well, Dastrick, I don't really disagree with you in practical terms, about this "tracking at once" thing, and this is a perfectly good thread that we don't need to trash to hash that out. Just a clarification-If we have to deal with, as you say, "the singer songwriter type", we can't wait around for the year or so it takes to learn how to track separately, and we try to compensate with creative uses of figure 8 mics, stereo arrays, Jecklin discs, reflection barriers or whatever. Some folks just try for one good mic in the right place (in the right room). We learn that bleed can be just fine.

I used to believe exactly as you do, because *I* was the singer songwriter type, and I *knew* that my performances suffered when I tracked separately. It took me over a year of hard work to pretty much correct that. What I believed before was just an excuse to avoid the hard work to gain the discipline. It's part of the repertoire of studio-related skill sets that defines the difference between "the singer-songwriter type" and a "session guy", or a "recording artist".

I wasn't advising anyone to try to record a guy like that when he's not ready. I was advising the original poster to learn that skill. The engineer, even if it's yourself, will love you for it, and call you "easy to work with". It will result in smooth, easy punch-ins. The main reason people can't play and sing separately is- they don't practice it, and it is definitely an acquired skill that I have struggled with myself. And- from the point of view of the original poster, it's a real handy skill if you only have one good mic.-Richie
 
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Well, Dastrick, I don't really disagree with you in practical terms, about this "tracking at once" thing, and this is a perfectly good thread that we don't need to trash to hash that out. Just a clarification-If we have to deal with, as you say, "the singer songwriter type", you can't wait around for the year or so it takes to learn how to track separately, and we try to compensate with creative uses of figure 8 mics, stereo arrays, Jecklin discs, reflection barriers or whatever. Some folks just try for one good mic in the right place (in the right room). We learn that bleed can be just fine.

I used to believe exactly as you do, because *I* was the singer songwriter type, and I *knew* that my performances suffered when I tracked separately. It took me over a year of hard work to pretty much correct that. What I believed before was just an excuse to avoid the hard work to gain the discipline. It's part of the repertoire of studio-related skill sets that defines the difference between "the singer-songwriter type" and a "session guy", or a "recording artist".

I wasn't advising anyone to try to record a guy like that when he's not ready. I was advising the original poster to learn that skill. The engineer, even if it's yourself, will love you for it, and call you "easy to work with". It will result in smooth, easy punch-ins. The main reason people can't play and sing separately is- they don't practice it, and it is definitely an acquired skill that I have struggled with myself. And- from the point of view of the original poster, it's a real handy skill if you only have one good mic.-Richie

Fair enough.............:)
 
I would argue that you need 3 mic's.
One for vocals.
2 for acoustic guitar.
WhiteStrat wrote a really good thread on recording acoustic guitar.
https://homerecording.com/bbs/showthread.php?t=290919

I recently acquired a pair of cheap condensors for recording my acoustic, and I gotta say it sounds heaps better than anything I've tried before.
 
I would argue that you need 3 mic's.
One for vocals.
2 for acoustic guitar.
WhiteStrat wrote a really good thread on recording acoustic guitar.
https://homerecording.com/bbs/showthread.php?t=290919

I recently acquired a pair of cheap condensors for recording my acoustic, and I gotta say it sounds heaps better than anything I've tried before.

YA KILLIN' ME! That means I have to get a bigger audio interface to support 3 mics. *sigh*.

Excellent post though :) thank you!!

Now listening to the 1 mic it sounds amazing. But 2 -- nothing compares it's so full and warm. I love it.

Idk, is it really worth it this time around? :confused:
 
Guitar Mic

So I just checked out this microphone for the guitar (in the future I'm at least gonna buy 1 for my guitar) here's what I found...

This guitar mic:
http://www.guitarcenter.com/Behringer-ECM8000-Microphone-100887330-i1126588.gc



So it can be plugged right into my Line 6 audio interface:
http://www.8thstreet.com/product.asp?ProductCode=60669&Category=Audio_Interfaces


along with this vox mic:
http://www.8thstreet.com/product.asp?ProductCode=6458&Category=Microphones


What do ya'll think?
 
YA KILLIN' ME! That means I have to get a bigger audio interface to support 3 mics. *sigh*.

Excellent post though :) thank you!!

Now listening to the 1 mic it sounds amazing. But 2 -- nothing compares it's so full and warm. I love it.

Idk, is it really worth it this time around? :confused:

You really need to learn to work with separate takes. Then you only need 2 inputs.
 
So I just checked out this microphone for the guitar (in the future I'm at least gonna buy 1 for my guitar) here's what I found...

This guitar mic:
http://www.guitarcenter.com/Behringer-ECM8000-Microphone-100887330-i1126588.gc



So it can be plugged right into my Line 6 audio interface:
http://www.8thstreet.com/product.asp?ProductCode=60669&Category=Audio_Interfaces



They are both good mics. Excellent ones, at their wicked low price points. The ECM8000 is an omnidirectional mic. This means it does not produce "proximity effect", meaning producing more bass when the source gets real close. Ultrasmall diaphragm mics like ECM8000 tend to be a little noisy by design. The V67 (the G just means green) is a whole different animal, and will give you the contrast of a large diaphragm mic. First, contemplate this: Here are 2 devices meant to accurately record sound, and the results are so different!

Then, stop the limited linear thinking of, "Mic A is for guitar and Mic B is for vocals". They're just mics. You might find, in a good room, that you like putting the V67 on the 12th fret of the acoustic at say, 12-14" and the ECM8000 backed off 3-5' or more, as an ambient (room) mic. Or- you can put the 8000 on the 12th fret or the lower bout, up close so you can turn the gain way down. I've seen the little bugger used on a kick drum! Unless your tastes are pretty weird, I don't think it will be a go-to mic for vocals, but you can be sure if you sing while you are playing, the little omni will pick up plenty of your vocals. I think of ultrasmall diaphragm mics like the fish-eye lens in the motel door. They see big because they are small. The V67 will probably be the main vocal mic, but... Don't look now, but you are beginning a "microphone cabinet".

The next mic will be a good dynamic. Another attempt to accurately translate sound into an electronic signal and then back again that doesn't sound the same. The dynamic is the Yang to the condenser's yin. Like an acoustic and an electric, they work on different principles. With either, the room you are in will be a huge factor in whatever sound you can get. An acoustic and a condenser will really bring that out. You know you might have a gain staging problem when you are listening to the breathing and heartbeat of your cat. If someone sets off a firecracker, good luck. Then you will learn what limiters do (or don't). Either one of those mics, set up properly, can hear my wristwatch ticking at twelve paces! Get ready to hear sounds in your recording space that you haven't heard before. Sorry, it goes with the territory. At that point, all this stuff everybody is saying about room sound will start to come into sharper focus. Think of it as "acoustic culture shock".

Of that pair of mics, I bet you wind up using the 67 on most stuff. I'd probably spend the other $50 on a used good basic dynamic- Shure SM57, Sennheiser e835, AKG D770- any of those. Better yet, find an old discontinued AKG D320. There are 3 models, a,b, and c. Doesn't matter much which. Although usually more expensive, sometimes you can find some used deals on the upper tier of dynamic mics-Shure SM7, Sennheiser MD421, Electrovoice RE-20. If you find any of those at a price you can afford, grab it. You will never regret it, assuming the mic works in the first place. Beware of cheap Chinese knock-offs of common mics like SM57 and e835.

The ECM8000 is, of course, a Chinese mic, as is the V67. Unfortunately, your current budget will drive you to Chinese mics. As they go, those are both useful ones. That's one of the reasons I like that D320- good ol' Austrian engineering. When you hit that with a drumstick, you check the stick for damage! The 67 is a good all-purpose entry level condenser, and the ECM8000 is a quirky little mic that has uses. I own a pair. If you are really short of cash, Behringer does build a pretty good *very* cheap dynamic, XM8500. For $20 new, it appears to be a pretty good knock-off of an AKG D8000. I have to say I am surprised by what a good basic dynamic mic it is. -Richie
 
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You really need to learn to work with separate takes. Then you only need 2 inputs.

I plan on it! In fact I'm only buying 1 mic, first, and I'm gonna work on doing separate tracks...kinda just experiment around before buying a second mic.

Good point though! I was kinda taking it from the mind-set that I'd be recording off the floor, (the easy route haha). But I'm only going to do that in the beginning just to compare it with how my set-up used to sound.

Of course when I want a clean finished product I'll be doing separate takes, no doubt.
 
So I just checked out this microphone for the guitar (in the future I'm at least gonna buy 1 for my guitar) here's what I found...

This guitar mic:
http://www.guitarcenter.com/Behringer-ECM8000-Microphone-100887330-i1126588.gc



So it can be plugged right into my Line 6 audio interface:
http://www.8thstreet.com/product.asp?ProductCode=60669&Category=Audio_Interfaces



They are both good mics. Excellent ones, at their wicked low price points. The ECM8000 is an omnidirectional mic. This means it does not produce "proximity effect", meaning producing more bass when the source gets real close. Ultrasmall diaphragm mics like ECM8000 tend to be a little noisy by design. The V67 (the G just means green) is a whole different animal, and will give you the contrast of a large diaphragm mic. First, contemplate this: Here are 2 devices meant to accurately record sound, and the results are so different!

Then, stop the limited linear thinking of, "Mic A is for guitar and Mic B is for vocals". They're just mics. You might find, in a good room, that you like putting the V67 on the 12th fret of the acoustic at say, 12-14" and the ECM8000 backed off 3-5' or more, as an ambient (room) mic. Or- you can put the 8000 on the 12th fret or the lower bout, up close so you can turn the gain way down. I've seen the little bugger used on a kick drum! Unless your tastes are pretty weird, I don't think it will be a go-to mic for vocals, but you can be sure if you sing while you are playing, the little omni will pick up plenty of your vocals. I think of ultrasmall diaphragm mics like the fish-eye lens in the motel door. They see big because they are small. The V67 will probably be the main vocal mic, but... Don't look now, but you are beginning a "microphone cabinet".

The next mic will be a good dynamic. Another attempt to accurately translate sound into an electronic signal and then back again that doesn't sound the same. The dynamic is the Yang to the condenser's yin. Like an acoustic and an electric, they work on different principles. With either, the room you are in will be a huge factor in whatever sound you can get. An acoustic and a condenser will really bring that out. You know you might have a gain staging problem when you are listening to the breathing and heartbeat of your cat. If someone sets off a firecracker, good luck. Then you will learn what limiters do (or don't). Either one of those mics, set up properly, can hear my wristwatch ticking at twelve paces! Get ready to hear sounds in your recording space that you haven't heard before. Sorry, it goes with the territory. At that point, all this stuff everybody is saying about room sound will start to come into sharper focus. Think of it as "acoustic culture shock".

Of that pair of mics, I bet you wind up using the 67 on most stuff. I'd probably spend the other $50 on a used good basic dynamic- Shure SM57, Sennheiser e835, AKG D770- any of those. Better yet, find an old discontinued AKG D320. There are 3 models, a,b, and c. Doesn't matter much which. Although usually more expensive, sometimes you can find some used deals on the upper tier of dynamic mics-Shure SM7, Sennheiser MD421, Electrovoice RE-20. If you find any of those at a price you can afford, grab it. You will never regret it, assuming the mic works in the first place. Beware of cheap Chinese knock-offs of common mics like SM57 and e835.

The ECM8000 is, of course, a Chinese mic, as is the V67. Unfortunately, your current budget will drive you to Chinese mics. As they go, those are both useful ones. That's one of the reasons I like that D320- good ol' Austrian engineering. When you hit that with a drumstick, you check the stick for damage! The 67 is a good all-purpose entry level condenser, and the ECM8000 is a quirky little mic that has uses. I own a pair. If you are really short of cash, Behringer does build a pretty good *very* cheap dynamic, XM8500. For $20 new, it appears to be a pretty good knock-off of an AKG D8000. I have to say I am surprised by what a good basic dynamic mic it is. -Richie

Richie! Thanks! Always an informer! You know your stuff.

The more time I invest into this the more educated I feel! Going through these forums I see pictures of people with like 11 or even 100 different mics, and I'm like "WHY WOULD YOU BUY THAT MANY!?" and clearly it's cause no 2 mics sound the same. It looks like there's a 100 different ways to use a microphone. Hopefully within time I'll learn those ways and how they can be useful to my music. I think you're right, I can already see in my future that I'll be buying heaps of mics, :laughings:!

Not to put any mics to a designated category again-- but I think I need a mic with a good bass sound for the acoustic guitar. See, my guitar is the only instrument accompanying my voice, so I really want that low bassy foundation to back up my vocals. Getting a really full sound is a must! Currently, my tracks seem a little naked/bare bones. I wanna sound my music is right inside your ears, not bleeding through the headphones of the guy sitting next to you! I'm sure that's the vision for mostly every musician. Everything I do now sounds really lo-fi, and that works sometimes, but I need to evolve it.

Maybe it would be worth looking into a decent dynamic mic. I've used condensers before but never a dynamic. I'm actually looking at the Behringer XM8500 right now http://www.guitarcenter.com/Behringer-XM8500-Microphone-770629-i1126630.gc (correct?). These guys DON'T need phantom power? Do they just plug right in next to the condenser?


I suppose with microphones it's one of those things where you have to buy it and try it. It looks like it differs with everyone on which mic is the best mic for your setting/genre of music.
 
Yeah, hitting a dynamic with phantom power has no effect. Well, I don't know about tons of mics, but the basic cabinet includes at least one top of the line dynamic, about 3 basic dynamics, a matched pair of small diaphragm condensers, a multi-pattern utility condenser, a main vocal condenser mic, and a dedicated low frequency mic. As the cabinet expands, it's a matched pair of multipattern mics, and several main vocal mics, including tube mics. and a couple of ribbons are added. Hell, Abbey Road has a quarter million dollars worth of mics.

In the end, if you stick with it, you'll upgrade to better versions of the basic mic types. In the beginning, I think you need to play with the tools, even if they are cheap ones. One of the advantages of dynamics is that really good ones cost a hell of a lot less than really good condensers. What you hope for in the beginning is to get cheap mics that don't suck, and which can be resold for a good percentage of their price later on. Better yet are the ones you never sell, even though they were cheap. My cheapo all-stars include Behringer XM8500, AKG C2000B, MXL V67, Oktava MK-319 and MC012, and AKG D320. There are always better mics, until you are Abbey Road. And- we all have different tastes. I own the ECM8000's, but I don't really use them anymore. On the other hand, Harvey Gerst, a frequent poster here, and a leading guru of making high end recordings with cheap mics, has used them extensively with good effect. I attribute the fact that I haven't done that well with them to Harvey using the mics better than me.

Be careful who you believe. Nope, I don't "know my stuff". I'm an old ex-yippie singer-songwriter, not an engineer. There are lots of folks here that have forgotten more about mics than I will ever know. I only have two real skills that impact this board. The first is that not being a techno-geek, I can often explain things so noobs can get it. I have to be careful not to hand out BS which the real mic gurus will call me out on, and rightly so.
The other thing I bring to the table is some years of experience, gigging all over, and jury-rigging live gear so a band can play. I have more years gigging solo, mostly, (80% or so) acoustic. Sometimes when somebody looks like an expert, it's just because they are an expert- storyteller. But- I won't sell you on a bum mic. -Richie

P.S.- Start with the V67 a foot or so from the twelfth fret. You want to hear the bass in a Martin (which is already hard to overlook, as a rule)? Just slowly move the mic toward the soundhole. Long before you get there, you will be overwhelmed by the boom. You may find you'll be reaching for bass cuts, instead of looking for more.
 
Yeah, hitting a dynamic with phantom power has no effect. Well, I don't know about tons of mics, but the basic cabinet includes at least one top of the line dynamic, about 3 basic dynamics, a matched pair of small diaphragm condensers, a multi-pattern utility condenser, a main vocal condenser mic, and a dedicated low frequency mic. As the cabinet expands, it's a matched pair of multipattern mics, and several main vocal mics, including tube mics. and a couple of ribbons are added. Hell, Abbey Road has a quarter million dollars worth of mics.

In the end, if you stick with it, you'll upgrade to better versions of the basic mic types. In the beginning, I think you need to play with the tools, even if they are cheap ones. One of the advantages of dynamics is that really good ones cost a hell of a lot less than really good condensers. What you hope for in the beginning is to get cheap mics that don't suck, and which can be resold for a good percentage of their price later on. Better yet are the ones you never sell, even though they were cheap. My cheapo all-stars include Behringer XM8500, AKG C2000B, MXL V67, Oktava MK-319 and MC012, and AKG D320. There are always better mics, until you are Abbey Road. And- we all have different tastes. I own the ECM8000's, but I don't really use them anymore. On the other hand, Harvey Gerst, a frequent poster here, and a leading guru of making high end recordings with cheap mics, has used them extensively with good effect. I attribute the fact that I haven't done that well with them to Harvey using the mics better than me.

Be careful who you believe. Nope, I don't "know my stuff". I'm an old ex-yippie singer-songwriter, not an engineer. There are lots of folks here that have forgotten more about mics than I will ever know. I only have two real skills that impact this board. The first is that not being a techno-geek, I can often explain things so noobs can get it. I have to be careful not to hand out BS which the real mic gurus will call me out on, and rightly so.
The other thing I bring to the table is some years of experience, gigging all over, and jury-rigging live gear so a band can play. I have more years gigging solo, mostly, (80% or so) acoustic. Sometimes when somebody looks like an expert, it's just because they are an expert- storyteller. But- I won't sell you on a bum mic. -Richie

P.S.- Start with the V67 a foot or so from the twelfth fret. You want to hear the bass in a Martin (which is already hard to overlook, as a rule)? Just slowly move the mic toward the soundhole. Long before you get there, you will be overwhelmed by the boom. You may find you'll be reaching for bass cuts, instead of looking for more.

I appreciate your words of wisdom 1,000 times over Richie!

"Dynamic or ribbon microphones connected to a phantom-power input are protected from damage, theoretically, since the system results in a net zero DC potential across the coil or ribbon. However, if the dynamic or ribbon microphone is unbalanced internally (one side of the coil or ribbon accidentally tied to ground), damage is sure to occur."
(From: http://www.crownaudio.com/mic_web/mic_faq.htm)

^ This surely scared me out of buying a cheaply manufactured dynamic mic!
 
"^ This surely scared me out of buying a cheaply manufactured dynamic mic!"
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I wouldn't sweat it. Although some older ribbons *can* be fried by phantom power, for an ordinary dynamic to be at risk requires a wildly defective mic. The worst case scenario is a bassackwards wired cable, which I'm told could damage even a perfectly good dynamic. I wouldn't generally apply phantom power to any ribbon mic unless the manual calls for it (There are some phantom powered dynamics and ribbons).-Richie
 
First road block!

Okay so I finally bought my Line 6 UX2, this thing is killer cool.

I went with a cheap $70 MXL 770 to mess around with for right now.

I'm gonna experiment for awhile before getting a better condenser.
I've been using a really cheap uni-directional dynamic mic, it sounds great already!
The next step is to get the loud computer tower out of here.

I also need to get better headphones....does anyone recommend wireless ones?
 
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