so i'm in the music store today...

  • Thread starter Thread starter CDT-sHaG
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Listening includes listening while you play yourself. And not recording it and listening afterwards, listening WHILE you play, to the music as a whole, not to what you are playing.

And about originating... I know a dude that has the worst technique ever, can hardly play what he plays, can't even properly tune his guitar after about 7 years of playing. He's original alright... As to the feeling he puts in... Well. He doesn't. :D

If you can perfectly mimic a handfull of musicians, you take what you like from each of them and combine this into your own style, you are original.

What I really mean to say is that you should practice on tone, and putting feeling into your music instead of just practicing technique. If you can practice it, you can learn it... And the speedpickers don't get beyond the technique. They are physical on a high level, but mentally they don't get passed the technique. And if they do, they will have to rebuild half their technique.
 
If you can perfectly mimic a handfull of musicians, you take what you like from each of them and combine this into your own style, you are original.

What I really mean to say is that you should practice on tone, and putting feeling into your music instead of just practicing technique.
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we're on the same page:D I agree 100%...

I used to play with a guy who didn't know the first thing about theory..and he just flat out ripped..tone-wise and playing-style...he spent a tremendous amount of time practicing...and was one of the few guitar players i've seen that could pick up any guitar or play thru any rig and sound awesome....

when he was 15 he could play through entire metallica, aerosmith, hendrix, SRV, and led zepplin albums (showing my age with that term huh? lol)...note for note..all ear...but he could add that extra something to his playing that made him original also...he could write extremely well also.

too bad heroine has gotten the better of him over the years..really sad because at one time we were really close but time and age has changed a lot.....i still listen to old tapes occasionally we made at practices and am still amazed at his talent.....he had these two carvin half stacks that sounded better than any amps i've ever heard...

I'd love to hear some of your stuff sometime.:)
 
CDT-sHaG said:
I'd love to hear some of your stuff sometime.:)
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Well... I suck. :D The reason I got out of the technique thing was because my wrists made me. I learned a lot because of my wrist condition, a total different approach to playing, and it got me on amazingly higher musical level. But I cannot practice alot. Hardly ever play guitar no more... A few hours piano in the weekend, mainly sightreading scores. These days my main focus is (classical) composition, alot of theory (I told you, I really am a theoryfreak). And I'm working (taking lessons) on my sax playing too because I believe it will help to develop my melodic skills...

I learned alot from my wrist condition. Talked it over with lotsa pro's, did a workshop on effortless playing, read alot, ... And this got me alot of insight in playing, that practicing would've never given me. That's where good teachers can really help. The guy at the workshop teached all musicians, no matter what instrument, no matter what level. That's when you get over the technique, and start playing music instead of your instrument. Practicing on one instrument will also increase your abilities on another... That's where the magic starts... To bad alot of (even good, and pro-) musicians never get at this level, or even realize it's existence. If you read this and think: what a bullshit, then you're missing out some of the greatest things music has to offer. :p

And it sounds like spiritual blah blah. I hate that. :mad:
 
naw.....it's not blah blah....good points.....one of the the beauties of music is that each individual can approach it differently...

i started on piano at age 7....took lessons for 3 years and then when i was 12 started guitar..self taught..then bass at age 17....also self taught....bass and vocal were main mainly what i did in bands until age 26 or so..then i got a tascam 424 and started writing..playing the guitar, bass and vocals...then adding some percussion (conga type stuff)...did that off and on till around '97 or so...then stoipped music all together...

at 33 now im getting into DAW and can now do decent drum tracks with fruity loops..so im writing again..

i'd really like to look into the effortless techniques you mentioned.....from playing badly setup acoustics all these years i play really hard..(which is ok for my bass style) and i'm only good for about an hour at most now...

i crushed my right wrist (picking hand) a few years back and it gives me trouble also......what happened to your wrists if you don't mind my asking?
 
I really don't know what my wrists have... Went to alot of doctors. The last doctor (best one I had...) concluded that I must've crushed one of my ligaments during a fall, it recovered in a elongated position, which allows for the bones to rub eachother, resulting in artritis. But it seems that that didn't really cause me all that much pain. There's more... I think a big part of it is the action of my A90. I want to buy a real piano, but my parents don't want it in their place. Can't put it in my 'one room'-appartement, so...

If you want to kow about the effortless mastery-thingy, get Kenny Werner's book 'Effortless mastery'. It's alot of spiritual blahblah; but in between the lines, it makes ALOT of sense. Very good read. And practice on your hard playing. Don't move more than is needed, no more tension than is needed. It'll help you get faster too...

the book...

Maybe check out his site too...
www.kennywerner.com
 
saw another one today at a different store.....he broke a whammy bar on a ibanez....lol.
 
Why are you letting this ignorant f**k get to you? A real musician would be laughing at his twisted idea of musicianship being a competition...
 
LOL....he's not getting to me im laughing about it....
 
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My theory behind people like this is that they suffer from a massive inferiority complex. They think that by making someone else look bad they are making themself look good, but in actuallity are just making themself look stupid.
 
thank god there r many walks of life, i think life wouild be boring then....peace.........
 
ahh...the sweep picker

i know this guy too...i think its a cult, cause every music store has one. not only do they play alike, they talk alike too (blues is easy...ywioee malstrum (excuse the spelling) rules....jimi hendrix sucked big time, cause he wasn't fast)..every damn one of them sing the same tune. one time i saw one of those guys get on stage with a band and they fell apart, couldn't get a tone going cause they had the crunch way too high on the amp...(music store distortion setting don't work at stage volume bubba)...it was funny. here is my 2 cents worth on guitar playing: to start with it is WAY more difficult to get good at blues string bending that to become fluid in running scales...arpeggios ...and sweep picking. you can learn the scales and the runs....you can't learn the bends, cause string bending is all ears and feeling. you either have the feel for blues or you don't...and if you don't you can practice and jam till your old and grey and you will still suck at blues. the most difficult blues guitar....sounds so simple...but its not. example...Albert King. nobody (yes...SRV included) ever nailed that style. thats because when he hit 5 or 6 notes in a phrase he only used 2 positions on the neck....he was ALL string bending...and it made for the tastiest blues guitar ever recorded..IMO. so i say to the music store shredders "if you want to impress me play alberts lead ride from "you threw your love on me too strong"...not "eruption"
 
ahhhhhhhh albert....hell yeah....

SRV too to a degree...

clapton....

cray...

BB....now i love to watch BB king play as much as watching anyone else....

kinda off topic....but i watched this thing on lyndsey buckingham the other nite...never followed fleetwood mac at all really...didn't realize how good he is.....daumn that guy can pull off some sweet licks...and that whole acoustic/electric thing he does..
 
And I think Lindsey plays with his fingers, not a pick. Very impressive, either way.
 
Lindsey Buckingham. That guy is so, SO amazing.

"That guy". What a classic remark. What a great thread this is. From now on, "That guy" is the term I'll use for all music store shredders. Those guys are EVERYWHERE! No wonder they can't find work.

It's really funny to see everyone post about the same situations that I've been in. Didn't almost all of us guitarists start out thinking that we were going to one day be "that guy"? And haven't almost all of us put together a band with "that guy", thinking it would be amazing, only to find out that he was completely clueless about how to interact with other musicians?

It's too bad. Most people who pick up an instrument learn before too long that guys with incredible technique are a dime a dozen. A person who can take his slab of metal or wood and move your heart with it is RARE indeed. But "that guy", with his long hair, slightly yellowed teeth, and wrinkles around the eyes (as he is generally pushing 40) still hasn't realized this.

I remember when I was trying to be "that guy". One day, I was going to be just like Eric Clapton or Joe Satriani. I also remember slamming my guitar case shut after wrapping up my last solo overdub in my basement, getting ready to mix down my first real band's final recording session, thinking "I have absolutely no desire to pick up the guitar ever again".

And I didn't, for about a year and a half. But then I discovered the guitar playing of Pete Townshend, and it completely changed the way that I thought about the instrument. Sure, he can rip out some pretty amazing leads NOW, but that's after what, like 45 years of going at it? :) All that man has to do is play a few chords, and I'm tingling. Suddenly, guitar playing became FUN for me again.

Today, instead of the Les Paul, I mainly play a pretty battered acoustic with a deceptively lovely tone. Along with Pete Townshend, another guitarist who I watch closely is David Byrne. Both rhythm guitarists who only solo when a song requires it. I have to laugh at myself sometimes, when I can't pull off a lick that I know I would have been able to play four years ago. My main goal when I pick up the guitar is to come up with something new, not to perfect a Jimmy Page solo - in fact, I don't remember how to play other people's songs anymore. When I go out and jam with some friends, I usually have to have a lyric sheet in front of me. :)

And yet, although the raw technique isn't there anymore, I am a FAR better guitarist now than I ever was. When I write a solo, I try to write something beautiful, not something fast.

And I'm so much happier as a musician.

But That Guy usually makes me not want to play guitars when I go into the music store. As much as I hate to admit it, I do feel like a dummy playing my "latest cool chord progression" while Yngwie is in the corner shredding his tendinitis stricken hands away. Ah, well!

So, there's my story. You other former "that guy" wannabe's, when did it all change for you? Want to tell your stories?

PS, Taylor guitars are AMAZING. That tone is the stuff that dreams are made of.
 
I dunno. I think you can get carried away on both sides of the argument.. I mean sure, Yngwie's style can get incredibly annoying because he is always playing that way, and when he's not, you just know it's because he read his own reviews that complained of him not playing with feel..

But come on, are you going to say the same for Kirk Hammet on the first four Metallica albums? I get the exact same rush everytime I hear the blazing outro solo on "Four Horsemen"... and it's just the kind of thing I need to get me back into practicing and writing music. The exact same applies to Megadeth's "Wake Up Dead".. The rhythm is a total bitch to play on that one, all down strokes and fifth chords in very uncompromising positions..

I know I'm in the minority on this one, but this whole "he's a shredder, so he has no feel" argument gets a little old..

Cy
Shredder wannabe
 
I know I'm in the minority on this one, but this whole "he's a shredder, so he has no feel" argument gets a little old..
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I didn't mean that!

Some people can play with amazing technique AND emotion. I definitely put Hammet into that category. And Lindsay Buckingham... Stevie Ray Vaughan... David Gilmour... Jimmy Page, before the heroin... Eric Clapton... lots of others.

I personally have never been moved by Yngwie's playing, but I get a lot of "feel" from Joe Satriani.

It varies, but I definitely don't think that technique and emotion are mutually exclusive. It's just so rare to have both.
 
I shred But!!!!!

I am pretty adept at the metalica/megadeath type of guitar but there is no way I would ever step in to a music store and play over someone else. I don't care if they suck. You waite your turn to check shit out. I only play when I am looking to buy. I feel sorry for the music store guys. Buy your picks you came for and go home and play. If alot of these guys had the diversity to play in a band they would be doing so. They certainly have the balls to. They obviously don't ever feel em-bare-assed.

FS
 
Eurythmic: I agree with you 100%. I was never really "that guy", but I was getting there. Practiced my scales, fancy-ass solos, etc.

But a few years ago, I saw Sonic Youth at Lollapalooza in Boston while in the US for a summer. A life-defining moment: completely changed the way I thought about music, changed the music I listened to. I realized that playing the guitar is not an Olympic event (the 100-note dash anyone?) nor a PHD course (Applied Scale Theory?)... It's about creativity, it's about making music that makes people feel something they wouldn't necessarily feel otherwise. If a one-note guitar solo sounds good, it is good.

These days, I'll listen to EVERYTHING from electronica and drum & bass to alt. country and underground indie. In my opinion, guitar solos don't matter, it's the songs that matter. Open your minds, keep listening to Hendrix, SRV, Clapton of course (responsible for a lot of great music), but don't get bogged down in axe-wielding posturing - listen to everything.

S.

Oh and while I'm ranting, I'll say this also (and I know a lot of you will disagree strongly): IMO, just because it's made with a sampler and a drum machine does not reduce it's musical credibilty - creativity is creativity no matter how you look at it. Again, if it sounds good, etc, etc...
 
in my honest opinion..the thing we all should strive for is choices in our playing...the choice to play fast or slow..to create a mood or sound or feel we want....

imagine some gilmore-type bending combined with speed..sweet.

or almost any SRV live jam...

the thing i want is what gilmore-type players have...and that's to be able to hear entire solos in your head without hearing the song..like the solo to "another brick.."..or "comfortably numb"...that type of playing sings almost lyrically...

sometimes when im jamming around...i get to a point where i want to emphasize a part with speed..

use it in conjunction with slower, feel-based playing...

the thing is that is harder to accomplish than flat out speed playing all the time..

but that's what makes the greats great..

and i am only attempting to do it..but when i can pull it off its ecstasy...

i play acoustic..so there's no hiding behind anything..either i pull it off or i don't...

sometimes i hike the guitar up to my chin to get the proper angle on the neck to play fast...but when i'm warmed up..and the music is just flowing out of me..then it's better than any feeling i've ever had..it's why i play..

it's why i only look at tabs once and then just listen to the tune and play it..mistakes and all...till i get the sound i want...if i want to cover a tune...

note-for-note only works imho if you’re the guy who wrote the tune...you have to have subtle differences to make it fit YOU.

an example that comes to mind of this is dave matthews and tim reynolds...now i don't like all of tim's playing on the acoustic cd..but there are times when he is pure genius....modulating speed with feel...on an acoustic (albeit a really nice playing taylor lol)

other times he goes off in la-la land and sounds like he's just beating on the guitar or dicking around with effects...really dimishes his talent i think.....

there's sooo many examples but that one just came to mind...
 
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