So... am I doing good?

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JacobShah

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Alright everyone, so I am currently in the home stretch of recording a Gospel Album. And of course the question came up of.. gasp.. Mastering!!
hehe well I figured I'd give it a try. And here's the mess I've made. lol jk.. But anyway before I tell you the plugins used, tell me what you think of it. Brutal honesty is preffered. Lol, The song itself is unfinished, but please give it a listen to at least the chorus and tell me if my mastering doing anything good! lol
They are both here at my SoundCloud page (soundcloud.com/jacobshah) Should be at the top of the page.
Couldn't get the player to embed right for some reason?? Anyway please let me know what you think.
 
Brutal honesty is preffered.
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The mix sounds pretty reasonable. The mastered version is just short of unlistenable. "Fatiguing" doesn't cut it... Scooped, distorted, squishy, unfocused, no clarity to speak of, no separation -- Really odd phase problems in the low end (the worst possible place to have really odd phase problems), Haas Effect gone wild somewhere... Mild sibilance problem turned to pain.

I'm sorry -- You asked for brutal honesty.
But anyway before I tell you the plugins used, tell me what you think of it.
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I could certainly be wrong - But this sort of damage is pretty easy to do with Ozone. Especially if working on small-ish nearfields (no idea if that's the case or that's the plug - Just sayin').

(EDIT) -- Re-reading that, I really apologize if it sounds "too brutal" -- But I hate to say I stand by it. Listening to the mix, it sounded a bit "dull" (for lack of a better term) but there wasn't really anything "irritating" (again, lack of a better term) going on. The other version is rather irritating to the ear right off the bat. Sounds like it was forced to go somewhere way off from where it wanted to go and was pretty badly damaged in the process.

I hate to bring up the whole "typically you don't want to master your own mixes" thing, but it does bring up the topic on its own --- If you didn't *mix* it to sound like that, why make such hugely drastic and dramatic changes later?
 
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Massive Master said:
(EDIT) -- Re-reading that, I really apologize if it sounds "too brutal" -- But I hate to say I stand by it. Listening to the mix, it sounded a bit "dull" (for lack of a better term) but there wasn't really anything "irritating" (again, lack of a better term) going on. The other version is rather irritating to the ear right off the bat. Sounds like it was forced to go somewhere way off from where it wanted to go and was pretty badly damaged in the process. ...
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FWIW I think you were and are spot on.

Jacob', let's go like this for example. The mix track the vocal's 'presence' tone has some very sharp high end on it. One might for example want to hear a more moderate and wider presence (I'll call it a more natural' sounding style for now if you will). Now this just is style and preference choices we're talking here not 'right or wrong', but to make a point—
Your master version took what was that 'sharp tone—and increased it.
Now to the point and that is, whether you wish to call it (or do it in..) 'the mix, or 'mastering', ask What was the goal?
To make it sound better.

I'll propose that the process is; 'Step back, 'try to listen with a fresh ear, perhaps compare to a similar pro production as a reference, and then the question 'What do I want do to improve this?
Where you do it (go to next... call it more mixing, or 'mastering) matters little at this point.
 
No, no. Thanks very much, Massive and mixsit. This is what I was hoping for. I really appreciate it. Ok so FYI, I included the plugins as global effects in the original project. I used a BBE D82 Sonic Maximizer, and E-Compressor from Nomad Factory and a BBE Harmonic Maximizer. All done in Reaper.
So as far as the unmastered mix, did it sound like it was headed in the right direction before? Or was it mixing problem to begin with?
I was trying to bring up the overall level, because I was having to crank it up on various stereo systems. Also wanted to compress it so that the transitions weren't overbearing. Are the plug-ins not well suited for mastering? Or is it the way they are being used?
A side note: I also purchased Studio-One a while back, and haven't toyed with it much. However I saw a mastering suite in there. Would I be better off just exporting it and trying fresh into StudioOne? Thanks alot guys!
 
The point is to use your ears and do what the mix is asking/telling you to do.

THAT SAID: If a mix was asking me for a Sonic Maximizer or harmonic exciter, I'd probably send it back to the mix engineer. To my ears, this thing is *so* far off that I really don't know what to say. The mix could be better, but it was listenable.
 
In both versions I am hearing some kind of popping or drop off in the vocals starting around 0:24 that should be fixed well before the mastering phase. I agree with Massive also. The mastered version is painful to listen to. The bottom end is virtually non-existent and the top end is shrill, especially the vocals. You singer here is not the strongest and I would back the vocal track down and try to emphasize the accompaniment more.
 
Ok, I am understanding the point about shrill, annoying, and irritating. Now could someone please enlighten me on what should be done different. I'm not saying you aren't but that's my main question. So if there is little bottom end, I'm guessing the kick and bass need to be kicked up a little? I don't have bad judgement. I just don't have golden ears. So it's hard for me to tell small changes. I am working on another master based on the advice I was given here. Sorry guys. I figured my first go would be miserable. I probably should've waited till I had more experience with it first. Anyway.. I'm not hearing the mix really telling me to do anything. I just know it's a bit dull and to quiet. So... now what?
 
I hate to say this is one of those "unanswerable" questions ---
 
JacobShah said:
... I am working on another master based on the advice I was given here. ...I probably should've waited till I had more experience with it first. Anyway.. I'm not hearing the mix really telling me to do anything. I just know it's a bit dull and to quiet. So... now what?
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Keep experimenting. If you have the opportunity, go back to the source and try try again. The better you get it there the less you need to worry about mastering.
 
Nice performance, decent mix, but I have to agree with earlier opinions on the mastering attempt. However, I think you can quite easily make effective improvements. Most, if not all of these I would address in the mix. For instance, I found the contrast in the intro between the very bright guitar and the somewhat darker piano a bit big. Also, I would try to add somewhat more depth, especially to the vocal.

In any case, refrain from making changes that do not make your mix sound better. Drastic changes are in any case most probably not an improvement. (When I started out, I thought that because I had all these knobs I also had to turn them, but this is not true.) This is all the more true for your mastering efforts. It's difficult, but especially if you want to master yourself you should really learn to listen to the mix and try to let it determine what needs to be done. I would focus on bringing up the level as much as needed/desired (because the song is going to be on an album) and making the elements in the mix sit together nicely. You know you're done when it sounds pleasant (on a number of different systems) and fits in nicely with the rest of the songs.

Good luck!
 
The unmixed sounds smoother and has a nicer high end. The mastered version is very shrill and the highs are outrageous. It sounds like you EQed a ton in the 6k, and above 10k regions. I agree with all of the above. I think you just over did it with the mastering. Less is more.

I am certainly not a mastering expert (i usually just push the volume up a little until I can find someone else to master for me). But the EQ is awefully shrill. If you are convinced mastering yourself is the way to go, or if you just want to get some practice, step away for a few days or a week, and come back to this. Your ears will pick up a lot of what people here are saying.
 
I agree with the above as far as the shrillness of the mastered version, and lack of low end.

What is your monitoring setup/mixing room?

Assuming your ears are good (no hearing damage) perhaps your monitor speakers/room are not quite telling you the truth?
 
ok guys, I am gonna try stepping away from it for a while. I will post up the revised master within the next few days. My monitoring setup by the way is a pair of KRK Rokit 5's. My room isn't the best. But I have some bass traps and absorption panels setup. Always too much bass for some reason, so I usually crank the bass down. So should I go for a brighter piano sound? Thanks everyone! I really appreciate it!
 
That goes to show how the room plays a part in it. I have the Rokit 5's and in my room they seem a tad bass deficient. However, what you perceive as too much bass is gonna be different from someone else.
 
Very bright. The un-mastered version is (to my ears) smoother. I am in hte camp with Massive. To be straight-forward it sounds like some of my home effort using "ozone" I am not implying that you used it; it just sounds like things I have done (sadly) with that plug. Not bashing Oz just an observation. Be well.
 
I listened again but this time on the real speakers.
a) There's a narrow hump on the vocal that sticks out -if I had the song or vocal in the DAW I'd sweep to find it, but I'll guess 200-300. Find it, do a narrow dip (Q 6 to 8 or so?)
b) That will thin out the voc, then tuck her into the band where she leans into the mic' in spots..
Fun
 
I listened to some of the other tracks you had posted on your site. Be careful of the pitch correction that you are using. Sounds like the vibrato is being squashed and it's causing a funny foment. Are you using melodyne?
 
Actually no pitch correction was used at all. The vocalist, yes it is a she, lol has a very different vocal style to say the least. Okay just mastered it again based on the advice given. I feel a bit better about it. Thanks so much for your honesty everyone! I will try to post the new master tomorrow!
helps me out a lot. Is it too simple? Need more fill-ins?
 
JacobShah said:
I don't have bad judgement. I just don't have golden ears. So it's hard for me to tell small changes.
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RP5's have an extremely shitty low/high end, especially when you're working in a (presumably) un-treated/poorly-treated room. I'm saying this from experience: I mixed on RP5's for 5 years before finally moving up to Adam S3A's in a professional room. Honestly, all it took was one frequency sweep with a parametric EP plugin to hear just how shitty those RP5's are when it comes to high/low end. Nothing really accurate above 12k, nothing really below 50-60hz, and crappy accuracy below 100hz in general.
 
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