Snare Drum Reverb Help

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jeliot86

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I'm just diving into the realm of mixing and just can't seem to get the snare sound I'm looking for. I recorded top and bottom mic and have the dry sound of the snare pretty close. But I took a day and just listened to a lot of song that fall in the same genre as my band and have been trying to model a snare sound from this song

http://www.ggapband.com/all4u

2 days and still not even close. I love the overall reverb it has and how the snare sits in the mix. Seems to me there's a lot of reverb maybe zero pre delay but definitely has some tail. Maybe a side chaining Para EQ to bring out the reverb in the snares (real punchy) Just throwing out there what I have soaked up the last couple of days. I'm on a trial of waves True Verb also have CSR Reverb, Lexicon (came with sonar) and a TC Electronics M350 (Hardware).

Any help would be greatly appreciated. May save my soon to be Marriage,
:o
I'm not getting anything accomplished.
 
I cant really help you to much maybe boost the mids a bit?
But really diggin the song man!
 
I quite often use this on a snare working with this type of music.

Metal Plate
decay 0.8 sec to 1.2 sec depending on the tempo even up to 1.8 sec could work.

If it's not quite the sound, eq the lows out a bit and fiddle with highs (reverb eq) and see if it works.

Then check it works in the mix.

If using compression on the snare place this in line before the reverb.

This reverb works for toms too.

Cheers

Alan.
 
There's nothing especially fantastic about the snare in that clip. That's what you want to mimic right? I'll second the plate recommendation. Plate reverbs generally sound pretty good on snares.

One thing you might be overlooking is that the snare in that clip probably sounds very good to begin with, or it's a smaple. I don't know what you're working with, but everything's easier when you're working with a properly tuned and good sounding snare played by a competent drummer. If you've got some hack banging on a shitty sounding snare, you'll never fix it in the mix.
 
Greg_L said:
There's nothing especially fantastic about the snare in that clip. That's what you want to mimic right? I'll second the plate recommendation. Plate reverbs generally sound pretty good on snares.

One thing you might be overlooking is that the snare in that clip probably sounds very good to begin with, or it's a smaple. I don't know what you're working with, but everything's easier when you're working with a properly tuned and good sounding snare played by a competent drummer. If you've got some hack banging on a shitty sounding snare, you'll never fix it in the mix.
Click to expand...

Agree with everything there. While reverb can enhance the sound, it rarely makes or breaks it. If you're spending 2 days trying to mimic a sound, I can almost guarantee you that the reverb isn't your problem. Your source sound probably is. Reverb is probably the last and least important part of it. A good snare, tuned and miced properly, with a good player hitting it hard and consistently is 1000 times more important.
 
BentRabbit said:
yup and yup...


Can you give us an example of the track(s) you're fighting with?
Click to expand...

Thanks for all your help guys. Even if I don't get this right this is all good info. As soon as I get home I will post a clip of the two snare sound clean not compression, and No Transient shaper. Just the top and bottom mics, maybe gated to get rid of the bleed.

thanks again, should be posted in a couple hours:)
 
No offense guy, but you shouldn't be needing all that transient shaping and multiple mics and compression and shit. Sure those are good tools to enhance an already good sound, but don't rely on that shit to "fix" anything. I think people tend to jump to that stuff without even really knowing if they need it or how to use it. It's like they think they're supposed to use it, and it ends up biting them in the ass. If you can't get a decent snare recording from one mic, then you're not ready for all that other stuff. Get the tuning, playing, and mic positioning basics handled first, and then expand into multiple mics and processing.

Yeah, pro commercial studios use lots of mics and processing. They know what they're doing and are usually dealing with great equipment and performers. It's cool to look to pro stuff for inspiration or ideas, but keep things realistic.
 
Greg_L said:
No offense guy, but you shouldn't be needing all that transient shaping and multiple mics and compression and shit. Sure those are good tools to enhance an already good sound, but don't rely on that shit to "fix" anything. I think people tend to jump to that stuff without even really knowing if they need it or how to use it. It's like they think they're supposed to use it, and it ends up biting them in the ass. If you can't get a decent snare recording from one mic, then you're not ready for all that other stuff. Get the tuning, playing, and mic positioning basics handled first, and then expand into multiple mics and processing.

Yeah, pro commercial studios use lots of mics and processing. They know what they're doing and are usually dealing with great equipment and performers. It's cool to look to pro stuff for inspiration or ideas, but keep things realistic.
Click to expand...

Oh I completely agree. The two mics was the only must I was looking to get good some good snap/snare sound from the bottom mic, and figured can't hurt I have the mics and the extra inputs. I got the snare sound pretty decent I think, but you can tell me once I post. The rest of that stuff was just tinkering to see what I could bring out in the sound.
 
BentRabbit said:
yup and yup...


Can you give us an example of the track(s) you're fighting with?
Click to expand...


Here is a sample of the snare I'm working with completely dry, except I added a gate, a little choppy in spots but I set the gate fairly quickly but...well you'll get the idea

http://www.ggapband.com/snare_test

Thanks guys

Jason AKA "Sponge Bob" (just soaking it all in)

If you guys think this snare isn't workable, let me know I'm not completely against triggering a sample and neither is my drummer. He knows his kit is vintage 70's and with the type of music I'm not sure it will be a big deal.
 
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Lol. That gate is killing it. And a solo'd snare track tells nothing. Post up a mix with the drums and some music.
 
Whoah!!! No offense, man...but you've got to be joking. Get rid of that horrible gating. It sounds like you're farting into a mic. There's no need to gate your snare anyway, in my opinion. A little leakage is fine, and certainly 1000 times more desireable than what that gate is doing to your snare.
 
jeliot86 said:
Here is a sample of the snare I'm working with completely dry, except I added a gate, a little choppy in spots but I set the gate fairly quickly but...well you'll get the idea

http://www.ggapband.com/snare_test

Thanks guys

Jason AKA "Sponge Bob" (just soaking it all in)

If you guys think this snare isn't workable, let me know I'm not completely against triggering a sample and neither is my drummer. He knows his kit is vintage 70's and with the type of music I'm not sure it will be a big deal.
Click to expand...

:eek: :eek: :eek:

Houston I think we found the problem...

:D

Wow... If you didn't tell me I really wouldn't have known that was a snare...

Strip away everything between the recorded track and the output and we can go from there... (Hopefully you didn't print the track with the gates on...?)
 
Ok boys ask and you shall receive, this is one of our originals ......drums completely clean, bear in mind this was a last minute add in to our recording session, the drums are the only tracks that have been dubbed over the scratch track. ie...............missed notes, shitty vocal, ect.....ect.....

I did not gate the drum while recording it just threw that in there to get the kick bleed from ringing out. Sorry:( apparently not a good idea) i didn't actually use that in the mix yet...of coarse

http://www.ggapband.com/Day_To_Day_test
 
It's hard to tell anything from that. So that's new drums recorded on top of scratch drums? So this is like having 2 drums in the mix? :confused:
 
Greg_L said:
It's hard to tell anything from that. So that's new drums recorded on top of scratch drums? So this is like having 2 drums in the mix? :confused:
Click to expand...

No, I think he means the drums were recorded over the scratch guitar and vocal tracks, if I'm not mistaken.

It is hard to tell anything from this because the drums are pretty low in the mix. I can tell you one thing, though: Reverb isn't the source of your problem with your snare. Its a dull sounding drum sound, and that has everything to do with tuning, tracking and hitting them hard and consistently. Reverb is waaaaayyyyyyy down in the equation. You can spend another 3 weeks playing with reverb settings and the only thing you'll accomplish is ripping all your hair out.
 
RAMI said:
No, I think he means the drums were recorded over the scratch guitar and vocal tracks, if I'm not mistaken.

It is hard to tell anything from this because the drums are pretty low in the mix. I can tell you one thing, though: Reverb isn't the source of your problem with your snare. Its a dull sounding drum sound, and that has everything to do with tuning, tracking and hitting them hard and consistently. Reverb is waaaaayyyyyyy down in the equation. You can spend another 3 weeks playing with reverb settings and the only thing you'll accomplish is ripping all your hair out.
Click to expand...

Unfortunately for me....the snare is what is at this point but we knew that going in. His drums are older than me. I'm hoping with a little tender loving care and the help from you guys I can bring out some of the missing qualities in his snare.....or just sample it. I would prefer to save the later as a last option unless like you said I'm going to keep pulling my hair out.:(

same link by the way.........

Edit: In case someone just listened to that in the last minute...... I did mix down the whole.....ahhh duhhhh, done in a second.
 
jeliot86 said:
Unfortunately for me....the snare is what is at this point but we knew that going in. His drums are older than me. I'm hoping with a little tender loving care and the help from you guys I can bring out some of the missing qualities in his snare.....or just sample it. I would prefer to save the later as a last option unless like you said I'm going to keep pulling my hair out.:(
Click to expand...

Old drums are not a bad thing, neccassarilly. Old skins are a different story. And a drummer that doesn't know how to tune them. I'm not saying that's the case, but if it is, then the age of the drums is the least of your worries. But you're not going to get a thick full crack out of a snare drum with any of those issues, no matter how long you work on it.

I'm not understanding what you mean by "the drums is what it is and we knew that going in". If you knew that going in, then you should A) change the skins, get someone to tune them, or B) Accept that they're never going to sound like the drum you're trying to mimic, which is a professional recording with a well tuned drum being played by a solid drummer.

Again...and not to dwell on this....Forget about the reverb. That's not what's holding you back. You "knew going in" what's holding you back. You chose to accept it. All the reverb, gating, EQ'ing, tantric meditation, or anything else is not going to make it sound like that studio recording. Sampling might.
 
RAMI said:
Old drums are not a bad thing, neccassarilly. Old skins are a different story. And a drummer that doesn't know how to tune them. I'm not saying that's the case, but if it is, then the age of the drums is the least of your worries. But you're not going to get a thick full crack out of a snare drum with any of those issues, no matter how long you work on it.

I'm not understanding what you mean by "the drums is what it is and we knew that going in". If you knew that going in, then you should A) change the skins, get someone to tune them, or B) Accept that they're never going to sound like the drum you're trying to mimic, which is a professional recording with a well tuned drum being played by a solid drummer.

Again...and not to dwell on this....Forget about the reverb. That's not what's holding you back. You "knew going in" what's holding you back. You chose to accept it. All the reverb, gating, EQ'ing, tantric meditation, or anything else is not going to make it sound like that studio recording. Sampling might.
Click to expand...

Yah I was a little vague there......We sat down with a couple guys that have done quite a few recording over the years to figure out with what we had for drums mic's room ect....... could we get the snare sound to where we wanted it...over all they thought we could get there with minimal effort (or should I say minimal plugins and added crap.
Now I'm a newbie and not a drummer and our drummer is a great drummer that hasn't done a lot of recording over the years so the opinions here are all I have at this point. Re tracking the drums after everything else has been recorded is not out of the question. Do you think a good tuning will make that extra leap?

thanks again
 
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