simple question...does Christian music scare off listeners here?

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Reply to Dolemite

I always feel like I'm the trailer trash in the room when someone ELSE is telling me they need more softcore porn on TV. You've got some really twisted thinking going on, but I guess I'm just narrow minded and exclusivist to all those millions of people looking for a Church which will have a special wet T-Shirt Friday night service.

And this is what I love about those so called "rational" or "intellectual" arguements about religion. The minute a Christian thinks different from you I am judgemental. If you think different from me you're the intelligent one.

I really don't want to go back and forth on this topic Dolemite, because it's obvious you have a chip on your shoulder. I wasn't making my original comment to aggravate anyone, but there are Christians in here that were talking about the way "Christian" music is going. That's who I was addressing it to. And please don't make comments like "I'm a Christian too just not a born again Christian". Call it what you want but Christianity it is not without Salvation through the blood of Jesus Christ.
 
OK, guys, first of all, I AM having fun with this (kudos to sae for recognizing it, but what do you have against AC/DC?)! I have no agenda but to speak my mind but I enjoy it all the same.


I always feel like I'm the trailer trash in the room when someone ELSE is telling me they need more softcore porn on TV.
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Lighten up, dude. If you're can't spot the humor in my posts you've got bigger problems than your religion. ;)


How can your stereotype/prejudice of a religion make my view of someone intolerant, narrow-minded or exlusionist? On the contrary I would say that YOUR view of christians/"born-again" (anabaptist - if you want to be 100% correct) is narrow-minded. If you think that every anabaptist is trailer trash then your view of christians is the narrow-minded one and needs to be re-evaluated.
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My view of "born-again" Christians may indeed be narrow-minded. However, if you re-read my above posts (take note of my statements "admittedly overgeneralized" and "humorously") and I think you'll realize that my initial post regarding the predilection for NASCAR was meant as simple overgeneralized observational humor. But honestly, I think its rather appropriate to take a closed-minded view of a group of people that explicitly exclude homosexuals and implicitly exclude everyone that hasn't been "saved." I don't think that all "born-again" Christians are trailer trash. You guys may be the exceptions that prove the rule, though ;) . You may have the biggest house on the block or the smallest trailer in the park (with a camaro or two up on blocks) but what sort of Christian are you, nay, what sort of person are you if you refuse to accept another human being? :confused:
 
Accept?

Quote:
You may have the biggest house on the block or the smallest trailer in the park (with a camaro or two up on blocks) but what sort of Christian are you, nay, what sort of person are you if you refuse to accept another human being?


I can see that you are obvously having a goodtime with the humor. I don't know what you mean by "accept" though. Do you mean I don't like people that aren't Christian, or I feel they are inferior or something? If that's what you mean it's completely off base. The only thing different between them and Christians is that one acknowledges Jesus Christ as Lord ans Savior and the other doesn't. Obviously once you accept that belief it obligates you to start to live differently than you did before and God starts to work with your heart and mind, but other than that everyone starts form the same place.

Now maybe you mean by "accept" that I don't accept that they will end up in a glorious Heaven with those that believe in Christ. That is true. Not because I say it but the God I believe in says it. It's okay for someone not to believe in Jesus as Lord. They don't have to be accountable to me. They are accountable to Him. It shouldn't bother you that I believe that way. I won't treat you any different because of it. You may say you believe in little green men from Mars and I don't think you would treat me different. We still relate in day to day society with each other pretty much the same. I don't look down on anyone that is not Christian. All I can do from my perspective is look on them with love and pray that one day they will know the true freedom that knowledge of God gives. I can see the changes God has made in my life and only hope that they can see the same miracles in their life. Just as any friend would want the best for another.

You are right that some Christians can be narrow-minded and exclusive as some people who are not Christian certainly are as well. But you have to discern between a Teaching of God and an Action of people. Jesus went into the Temple and overturned tables of merchants cheating people out of money in the name of God, he was outspoken and upset with hypocrisy. Thankfully God accepts us as we are though, even with all our misgivings.

To give you a somewhat similiar analogy: Some police are corrupt, but the rules of the department are not written for them to be that way. It's a human choice. And although that corruptness is inexcusable I don't think we'd want to get rid of our police in the kind of world we live in.

By the way the Bible tells us a day will come when Christ will come again and take His children away for a period of 7 years in which the world will have only Satan as it's King until Christ returns in power. Those 7 years the world will not have the Church as a "police department". You see the way society is going now, imagine it without any form of Christian moral conscience. You may not believ me now. But if that day comes in your or my lifetime, call out to God to save you.

I imagine it will be reruns of "Politcally Incorrect with Bill Mahr" on every channel 24 hours a day.

:D
I'm a preacher by no means but here's
just a couple verses to think about:

"One day every knee will bow and every tongue will confess that Jesus Christ is Lord."
We can either do it now, or when it's too late to make a choice.

"It is appointed a man once a time to die and then comes judgement."
You can say that you don't need oxygen to breathe, and believe it all you want, but sooner or later you'll need to inhale, no matter what you believe, or the consequence is real.

It's been a pleasure having this discussion. Thanks so much for the feedback.

And like my band tries to say at our shows, simply "God is real, and He changes lives."
 
Okay, I've been silently watching this thread for a while and I have to jump in for a moment...

I think that what's being exhibited in this post is the reason for a lot of ill feelings towards Christians (artists or otherwise). It's the lack of a sense of humor, coupled with an incredible sense of arrogance.

I'm sure that Christians (especially those who have been born again from common heathens such as us) can't help but feel a little special being "God's favorites" and all, but the condescending nature used to address everyone who doesn't share your mindset is something I'm sure J.C. himself would frown upon (though I'm sure he'll forgive you...) ;-)>

Saying that your opinion of someone else's opinion 'illustrates the difference between light and darkness'!? Come on... And calling someone who doesn't believe the things you do "ignorant" is ripe with irony.

While I do think that many Christians believe that they don't look down there noses at the 'common' man, comments like "I don't accept that they [non-Christians] will end up in a glorious Heaven with those that believe in Christ..." are inherently arrogant and condescending, implying that, solely by what you believe, you deserve greater things and will be invited into the 'glorious', yet exclusionary, afterlife.

Other comments like "All I can do from my perspective is look on them with love and pray that one day they will know the true freedom that knowledge of God gives." implicitly views people who don't share your beliefs as 'poor souls' who do not have the wisdom you claim to have and need your divine guidance or intervention through prayer... as if they would be great people 'if only they were as enlighted as I am...' If you don't see how this is condescending and demeaning, please stop praying for me and pray for better self-awareness (or a little humility)...

This clearly is not meant as a vast generalization of all Christians. Many are comfortable enough in their own beliefs to take a joke (or hyperbole, or playful antagonism, etc.). In addition, many can and do respect and appreciate people who hold differing, if not opposite, beliefs. However, in my opinion, that's the difference between a true Christian and someone who uses their religion as a way to try and elevate themselves above the rest of the world...

J
http://www.30SoS.com
 
Special?

So you mean out of all that I wrote you got out of that that I am "special", and looking down at everyone else because ofhow "enlightened" I am. There's really no point in going into any more detail than I have in the past in a response. I have said that I am not special, I no different than anyone else but I acknowledge Christ and now have a relationship with Him. Are you "special" because your parents loved you? Are you "special" if you love them in return? Are you "special" if you don't? Do you think your relationship with them wouldn'y change if you didn't respect or honor who they are?

It's so darn simple yet you just don't want to hear it. You have to "humble" yourself. The world does not revolve around you. You don't know the answers to all life's questions. You are not the standard by which God's laws are made and judged. And boy hasn't God made it difficult...coming here to Earth and dying for you, accepting you with all your (and mine) sin and evil intentions. What a horrible God. What an exclusionary individual who places so much responsibility on someone that after all he's done we actually have to acknowledge Him. Where does He get off?

You don't want a God who can create the Universe with the move of His hand, or change your life and your heart into something better. Why would you need to change? You must think you're fine and if God can't accept you as you are who needs Him!?!?! Your God isn't someone who makes your life better, he's someone who gives you a pat on the back, an "'atta boy" and last thing he would want you to do is have to think negative about yourself or anyone else's lifestyle.

Sounds like a mighty weak God. Ultimately you want to be your own God, and if you don't like something then God should agree with you. I'm curious.....What would a God be like that you would respect in your opinion?

As far as thinking I'm better than someone else? Way off base.
 
"I no different than anyone else but I acknowledge Christ and now have a relationship with Him."

So you're claiming that you're no different or more special than anyone else, despite the fact that you claim to have a relationship with the being that you believe created the entire freakin' universe and everything in it? How can that not sound a little arrogant, especially when you're implying that you have this relationship and the rest of us do not simply because we don't believe the same things you do? And I love a good analogy as much as the next guy, but my parents don't decide who goes to heaven and who goes to hell (if you believe in that sort of thing), so I don't think that's a good example... ;-)>

I couldn't agree with you more about needing to 'humble yourself'. I'm humble enough to know and freely admit that my feeble human mind cannot grasp the enormity of the universe and how it began, or why there is unjust suffering in the world, or especially claim to know who's pulling the strings. Yet, you're bold enough to say you know who or what God is and have a relationship with this being. That is about as far from humble as I can imagine...

I could (and would like to) continue to debate religion all day and night with you or whoever else wants to step up to the plate, but unfortunately I don't have that kind of time (aren't we all supposed to be in our studios about now?) ;-)> So, to move on, I'll just answer your question and not bring up the problems, inconsistencies, and other issues with Christianity (or any other religion) that we seem to be neglecting or ignoring...

My God, let's call him Super-Funk-O-Matic (because he's that damn cool), would not condemn a saint to hell just because he's Jewish or Hindu or whatever (only Christians go to Heaven, right...?) My God is not so shallow that I have to tell him how great he is or how lowly and unworthy I am in order to enjoy his presence and bask in his glory. And most of all, my God knows that its all just life -- people do with it as they please and when the end comes around, regardless of what you believe, you lived a good life or you didn't. And if you screwed up, I'd like to think that he's reasonable, caring, and forgiving enough to NOT cast me or whoever else into a lake of fire for the rest of time...

I'm glad that you are happy and comfortable in your religion. I am also happy and comfortable in my beliefs. Because we don't believe the same things, does that have to mean one of us is right and one of us wrong? If so, I'm humble enough to admit that it might be me who's mistaken -- are you?

J
http://www.30SoS.com

P.S. Who wouldn't want to be their own God? Imagine the chicks you could score... ;-)>
 
Of course there is a possibility that I am wrong, but I believe that God created the universe and that those who believe that He sent this Son to die for me as a subtitution for my sins. I would go into more detail but you said you didn't want to discuss it and I am alright with that. And yes it is still possible to know the one that created the universe and still be humble. Because He (God) doesn't treat me any differently than he treats you. It's actually the opposite. Why would you go looking for a coin that's in your pocket? You go looking for the one that you lost. It's the same with God...those that are "born-again" are not lost, therefore God is not going to be such as active in "looking" for me than He will be looking for you. I dunno if this analogy made any sense to you but that's the way I see it. Therefore it's possible to be "born again" and still be humble.

Oh and I will respect your religion...even if I don't agree with it. I cannot, due to my beliefs, accept your religion or think that everyone's eternal destiny is relative.
 
Mary....

You keep asking if I'm humble enough to respect your beliefs. Of course I am. I don't feel everyone has to agree with me. I've said that in earlier posts. My whole point in this conversation up until now was not to convert everyone on this message board to Christianity. I was making a statement to the Christians on the board who were trying to compare themselves to the popular "world" and seek it's acceptance. Sort of like the Dali Lama wanting to be as popular as Ricky Martin. That was my whole point.

You are free to believe whatever you want. I don't feel someone is ignorant because they are not Christian. It's a different set of beliefs. But all I was saying is if Christianity is the Truth (and I believe it is as much as you believe it isn't) then there will be some real consequences to not acknowledging God and His sacrifice at some point. That's not me saying that, it's scripture. You may have problems with scripture as well, but it goes back once again to beliefs.

And I certainly don't expect to understand everything that God says in His word perfectly. But there are some Fundamentals of Christianity and I wanted to make it clear that although many people call themselves Christians they only may make it to Church once every six months. Or they may go to Church every week and not follow God's what they hear. I don't think everyone that calls themselves a Christian will be in Heaven by any means.
Jesus himself said that on that day "many will say Father did I not prophesy in your name, etc. And I will say to them Depart from you workers of iniquity I never knew you." He also said that many "worship God with their lips but their hearts are far from Me". Sounds like it's not a Religion that will make it to Heaven, but a relationship with God. I would be the last one to say who will go and who will not as far as where their heart stands with God, but my point earlier was scripture is VERY clear that all roads do not lead to God. And when someone has that belief and calls it Christianity I have to say ,Whoa hold on.
There are many menial issues in Christianity that people have different interpretations of and slight disagreements about. Scripture is clear about not making an issue of these differences. However the fundamentals cannot be mistated. Salvation through Jesus Christ alone being the cornerstone.

It's is fine if you disagree however. Just as you feel it's fine for me to disagree. And I may be wrong who knows? But we both believe we are right in what we believe, there's nothing wrong with that.

As to the God you described, he sounds okay. It just presupposes that these "Saints" are such great people. Frankly I think most people think we are better than we are. I don't know how many "Saints" you would have in all of history put together. The main difference between our views is really one person seeing humanity as a virtuous group that should and must be accepted by a good God, and the other (myself) seeing us as being pretty far from what we should be. I think for the most part human beings (myself included) are self-centered, proud, lustfull, evil-minded, and host of other things as well. One of us feels we need a God to accept and save us and the other needs to be looked at by God as a good person. Just differences in perspective.

Thanks for the conversation. Back to recording......

P.S. I keep trying to Mixdown - Export a File to Wav in Cakewalk and just export say 1 Track from a Project. I am trying to do this by Muting the ones I don't want mixed, but if I do this Track by track they all come out the same file size even though they are different lengths. Why is this? Anyone know?
 
I believe Delirious said it best....

...If I'm right, then you are wrong
If I'm wrong, then I really lived
And if I die with no reward
Then I know I'll have peace because I carried the sword.....

:)

-tkr
 
Mercyfull,

When you export the tracks it exports everything from the beginning of the song to the end even if there is only one small little section, it will still add all of the blank space at the beginning and at the end (just like soloing the track and then pressing play until it stops) and because evey track starts and stops at the same spot they will end up the same size. (but that's if you mean the same size "lengthwise")

If you mean the same "file" size then I don't have a clue why that's happening, because even being the same length they will still vary in what's on the tracks and therefore (theoretically) should be different sizes. Sorry I can't help there.

-tkr
 
That's what it's doing.

That's exactly what's happening. Say for instance I do a test project with 3 Tracks. Track A is 1 minute in length, track B is 1 minute and 25 seconds, Track C is 2 Minutes. I am muting 2 at a time and then Mixing down the project for each track. I end up with 3 files and although their audio may be different when you play them back, their file size is all the same, say 28,500 kb for a number to use.

I have done it with Pro Audio 9 and Sonar. Both are doing it. There has to be a way to get around this.
 
I'll leave my dogma at the door for a moment and see if I can offer some more widely acceptable musical opinions... ;-)>

I'm not sure about this, but my understanding is that if you export a single track from CW or Sonar or whatever, it will export what you recorded, as well as the silence in the track (which also takes up space, because technically it's still info).

If your project is 4:00 minutes long but the track you're exporting only has 1:30 of recorded audio, that track will still be exported as being 4:00 minutes long. And though there are no sounds recorded outside of that 1:30, there still has to be info there (otherwise it wouldn't be 4:00 long and you couldn't eventually plug it back into the song and have it fit the same). Despite the fact that there's no sound, there are still 1s and 0s there taking up space in that file, making it the same size as the others...

I'm not sure if that addresses your question or if it makes sense or even if my understanding of it is correct, but there's my two sense on a much less controversial topic... ;-)>

J
http://www.30SoS.com
 
Hmmm....

I had thought about that Mary. You may be right. My next step will be to copy each track into individual projects and then export them and see if I see a file size difference.

Does anyone know if Cubase VST32's Tape Simulation is better than Cakewalk's Tape Simulation Plug In? They both say they are 32 bit floating point, but Cubase makes such a big deal about their's and Cakewalk hardly mentions their's in their advertising. I have heard that Cubase's is much better but I want to know for sure before I fork out $ 600.00 bucks for Cubase and find out my Sonar is just as good. (Plus the time learning new software). One key difference I have heard about is that Cakewalk's you can plug in after audio has been recorded, but Cubase must have it turned on on the track at the time of recording. I don't know if that means anything significant, but seems like a pretty dramatic difference could result. I'm trying to get my vocals and guitar to compress more naturally rather than sounding sterile. And I am not a fan of alot of Reverb. I'm wondering is Cubase the answer or a good analog mic pre or compressor? Maybe a Joe Meek? I'm just using an Audio Buddy preamp into a Midiman 2044 Card (20 bit).

Where would you spend most your money? Good mic, mic pre or compressor?
 
Yes, it does scare me off. I will not review any Christian music, I am extremely anti-religion or anything that preaches falsehoods and misnomers. Especially you Christian nuts, at least the Buddhists don't try and force it on anyone.

To Quote John Lennon "Imagine there's no country and religion too" "Nothing to live or die for"

That guy had it figured out. Go burn some Beatle records you Christian well-doers.
 
just wanted to say that I think your song "Trust in the Lord" is mixed pretty good.

I would just like to add that not all Christians are "pushers" in their music. I am a Christian and I write about my lifestyle, feelings toward things and events, and situations. Like other people I may not agree with certain lyrics, but they are the ideas of another person and can take a song for its musical aspect.

Heres a verse I wrote for a song I have been working on. Curious on how its taken:

Under Restraint
I close my eyes
Restricting the truth
I hide my lies

I have a light
that needs to glow
I am a sponge
under the mosquito


I do apreciate everyones honesty and critisim on this bbs! Good luck to all.

sondriven
 
I ocasionaly write a song about things I truley believe in, I don't concider my self a Christian artists. I do however believe there are people out there that believe so strongly in what they believe, that they truely want to let others know what it is like to to feel the way they feel. Some of these people happen to be musicians and use their music to express there feelings. I also believe that some artists do have a hidden agenda, that they write this kind of music just to make money(just as some pastors build a church just to get gain and make money)(Go rent the movie "Leap Of Faith" with Steve Martin). Until you know how it feels to have a firm conviction in a spiritual belief, I dont think it is fair to judge others for the lyrical content and feeling in their music. They may have found something that truely makes them happy and they have a feeling inside them that wants to share with others through music.
I also believe this is true with people who have lots of hate inside(marylin manson etc.) They are also expressing how they feel. And if you believe this music doesnt effect the people that listen to it then you need to reavaluate it. If you believe this is just a form of expressoin, you also need to look deeper. Some of these artists are writting there music for evil purposes and to propaganda their evil messages as well.
Again my point is that there are good people out there that aren't doing it for gain(money/fame/girls/etc...), they just really believe stongly in something and want to share it. Is that wrong? They believe so strongly in what they believe that it brings them to tears sometimes, and it hurts them that others don't belive the same way they do. So, to reach others they write music about there beliefs. We all believe in something, and in most music you can hear what the song writter believes in, whether it be fast cars and fast women, or in religion or whatever. I think religious music turns people off because there is so much propaganda and doing it for money that people have turned it off and dont want to deal with it anymore. It is also harder to be religious than to not be, but that is another story.
Just my two cents, Keep Writting music you believe whether your Christian or not, and Rock On. Dont let others effect what you write about.
www.mp3.com/Richard_Bischoff
 
Yep.

That's exactly my point to the Christians reading this board realize two things:

1. Many people will view your lyrics and feel it's wrong, that you are forcing your message on them. That's okay, if Eddie Vedder writes "Pro Choice" on himself in concert he's not trying to influence me with his beliefs? Point is, everyone Christian or Secular has a view they are trying to get others to hear, otherwise be happy playing in your garage.

2. Don't think you need to be popular with the masses. Don't water down what you believe in so that it will be popular. Would Eddie Vedder write "Pro" on himself? Of course not, it wouldn't get the message across. When you are writing music of Faith you believe in you are doing several things: A) Praising God with music as a vehicle B) Building up yourself and your walk with God C) Encouraging others that also believe what you believe D) Influencing the world around you. People may not like the message but then they don't have to listen, or buy the CD or whatever. That's what I do when there's Secular artists I don't agree with. Do I like Pearl Jam, yeah I love them. Do I agree with everything they have to say. No. Am I angry that they are trying to "influence me" or "push their message". Of course not, my own beliefs are stronger than to feel threatened by their opinion. So I listen to their music because I like it and ignore things I don't like in it. Or if I'm really offended by something in a song on a CD I just skip that song. No big deal.

P.S. Check out the current issue of Newsweek

http://www.msnbc.com/news/597609.asp?0nw=n1d&cp1=1
 
Dolemite said:


Ouch! Leeking has spoken!

I guess all these years I've been fooling myself, eh?

I'm just gonna run off and buy up all of the Avalon, Michael W. Smith, SONICFLOOD, POD, Jars of Clay, Radial Angel, and Newsboys CDs I can get my dirty pagan hands on so I can really "know God" and "find out what being a Christian truly means."
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What makes you think that those guys are christian artists.
Dont be fooled
 
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