Simple 2 track ballad

[groucho]

I'd like to go even FURTHER off-topic and just say that Sam has absolutely the coolest avatar ever.

I just had to say it.

Chris

 

[SLuiCe]

Sam, do you really think I'd come in here and start insulting people who took the time to listen to my music? If so, you've completely missed my point. No disrespect intended. There are a couple of different conversations going here. I'm afraid some things may be getting confused.

it bothered me to see a thread where it was uncool to mention anything that wasn't a compliment..

I don't need compliments, Sam. I've been talking about music and where it comes from. I have no idea why you would say this here.

Peace.

 

[groucho]

I hope this thread doesn't degenerate into ticky-tack hair splitting stuff... the bottom line (for most respondents) seems to be: Tom, don't go. We like your stuff.

One point if I may? Some people are just flat-out prolific, and can crank tunes out hourly. Others of us have limited time, but wish to support people like Tom, Sam, Ped, dobro and others with a listen or two. It's the least we can do... but not for an abundance of time.

I'd like to back my words up with more music. When school lets out, we'll see. Just don't expect it to move you nearly as much as the music of those others... they're the musicians. Honest.

C

I don't think anybody's referring to folks here in the clinic. I assumed Tom was talking about people in some of the other forums.

Hey, if you take the time to say *anything* about my tunes - whether it's "that's nice" or "you suck", I'm grateful. And as far as I'm concerned it makes no difference whatsoever if you never post music of your own.

Chris

 

[The Ghost of FM]

Just as Sluice has stated that he feels the need to reduce his participation here in the clinic, I have been going through a similar mood too.

I find I am getting burnt out a bit, listening to everybody's stuff and trying my best to be helpful and offer constructive comments and compliments when they are deserved.

Sometimes you feel like too many people are depending on you and then you take a break and realize that the world turns with or without you.

We can't always be strong, sharp and attentive at all times. It's just not possible in my eyes.

So, if you need a break Tom, take one and devote your energies to where they are best utilized. Just as I am doing these days too.

I want to spend my energies on my music and my artistic expression for me first and me last.

Cheers!

ps; I enjoyed the track you posted on this thread for its honesty and in many respects, that's the highest form of musical expression. Being true to yourself.

Be well.

 

[SLuiCe]

This has kind of spun off in a few directions and I can sort of understand now why Sam said what he did. But I don't think I was being emotional about anything I've said today.
What I was explaining to Chris was that I personally feel I have spent too much time lately on the technical aspects of music.
What I was explaining to Canopus, since he is young and fairly new here, was to not react too quickly to everything that everyone says. His focus right now is on gear. Well, if you visit the gear forums and believe everything you read you will be broke in 10 seconds flat, or you'll just quit the art altogether because you're too overwhelmed to think straight.
I never once said I don't care about sound. I simply said it's not my focus right now. Reading back through this thread I don't find anything said by anyone to be inaccurate. All the comments about the "mix" and the "performance" were spot on. It's not a perfect recording. I was clear about that at the outset. So did people really feel they had to "apologize for being critical?" If so, what did I say to make them feel that way? Please tell me so I can choose my words more carefully in the future. I just posted a piece of music that fell out of me one afternoon. From that several different discussions emerged. I didn't think we were talking about the particular song anymore. I just felt like talking about music and what it means to us. Yep, I guess that's why we shouldn't go off topic. Lesson learned.

Tom:

But the next day as I pulled myself together and listened to what I had recorded, I realized how much damage our brains often do to our music.

Sam:

if you don't care, then stop tripping.. if you didn't care about the sound, you wouldn't post the same song 5 times like you do..

You're talking about songs before this thread. Songs that I have obsessed over to an almost unhealthy degree. And THAT is exactly what I'm talking about. There, I said it again.

I am not telling anyone to be any less critical of anything!
I am not telling anyone to be any less critical of anything!
ok one more...
I am not telling anyone to be any less critical of anything!

I am also not trying to undermine the effectiveness of this clinic. Everything I have learned about recording, I learned through experimentation and discussions on this board. Period.

So will someone please quote me, because I can't seem to find where I said I don't care about sound quality and that everyone should say nothing but nice things about everyone so that we all feel better about ourselves and no one learns anything. Again, what I have said today is not a response to anyone in this thread. This shouldn't be a big deal either. I didn't mean this to sound like a "Fuck you all, I'm outa here" speech. Just wanted to tell my friends where I was headed musically. Not asking anyone to come along...

 

[SLuiCe]

Damn, Ghost. EXACTLY!!!!

THANK YOU for reading it the way I said it.

I'll leave it alone now. Getting too confusing for my little brain. Best wishes, sincerely.

 

[mixmkr]

I kinda read the responses in this thread out of order, as the last couple ones made me go back and see "what's up."

I can see that the clinic has less to offer, because you've climbed your way towards the top of it rather quickly. I also see that it is also becoming more and more crowded each day, and keeping up with "everyone" is becoming harder to do. I personally have gotten to the point that I am selecting people's threads, because of their past quality work, and find that unfortunately am listening to less and less new stuff....both because of time and also ALOT of the new stuff IS just beginner stuff and has playing problems that just extremely compound the mix issues. Listening to 10 crappy mixes to one "fairly decent" mix ..and then one GREAT mix is definate a slowdown to your learning curve, SluCie. I believe that to be true. Like someone said before, you are on a plateau and need to take the next step up. Sure...music is first before twiddling knobs, but the "contemporay musician" is as much the engineer as he is the guitar soloists in many cases.

DON"T THINK that letting knob twiddling should just go by the wayside in favor of learning how to "communicate" with chords and lyrics. You have to KNOW your pallette and paint brushes and your alphabet to know how to "talk" to other people.

I've had stupid [chicks...sorry girls!! ] try and record with me and only make it frustrating when they say.... "I'll know the sound when I hear it....but I don't know how to describe it. It needs to be more...well...kinda ...well...just play and when I hear it, I'll tell you when it is right"
You can always continue to learn your language of choice. Just think how many words in the English language you actually DON'T know!! Same with any form of expression, I would think.

Anyway...let the jets cool...I know I have had to also.. Pick and choose, let the red button be lit more rather than busting time on the internet, make love, and land that trout.

Peace bro... you're a musical champ on a great journey.

 

[mixmkr]

oh...and if I got off subject, or responded to the wrong things...just pretend I came back and deleted my post!!!

get that trout yet!!

 

[Qwerty]

All the comments about the "mix" and the "performance" were spot on. It's not a perfect recording. I was clear about that at the outset. So did people really feel they had to "apologize for being critical?"

If so, what did I say to make them feel that way? Please tell me so I can choose my words more carefully in the future.

This is human nature in action.

You are seen as being "good" at what you do here on the board. People therefore start to look up to you, they lob by the clinic one day, see your latest opus and don't understand that it is mix effort number 55 based upon a concept that was fresh in the spring of '99....

They just see this cool song, here this one lick that is just it... They listen, they analyse, they work it out and they add the technique to their own mixes. It makes them sound better and they say, "Thank God. I have learnt something today. And it is all because of that Sluice guy."

In short, this leads to hero worship. You have your collection of fanboys who feel succesful by association with you. It isn't bad, it's just how people behave and learn -- through modelling. It's the same reason why kids vote the same as their parents, typically....

I read your words, I attempted to offer some feedback which may be useful to you regarding your singing technique. This was misconstrued as criticism by Pedullist -- my language was probably a little obtruse -- to mean that I thought your song sucked.

This wasn't the case, but I do think it clearly highlights what you said in that you are looking for a forum to properly investigate artistic motivation, drive and direction. It boils down to the fact that there isn't one right answer. All people will have opinions on their art and it becomes a subjective discussion of personal preferences.

The MP3 clinic is a strong forum, I feel, because it is focussed on providing feedback on tangible equations that influence the clarity and quality of a homereccer's mixes. People love it because they learn.

From reading your posts, it seems like you have learnt everything you can here. But that does not mean that people would not still continue to benefit from your experience.

I empathise with your pain concerning the crucifying choice between production and composition and respect your commitment to follow the muse. I wish you luck.

If you are seriously troubled by the associated behavioural responses of your online fame, I would suggest registering an alias and coming back as an unknown newbie. Share your experience where you feel inspired and don't feel constricted by the "Sluice(TM)" tagline....

Q.

 

[CanopuS]

My guess is Sam was commenting on my ambiguous comment about the technical questions. To clear things up if thats the case, they weren't actually negative comments, but questions, which he was very kind to answer. I don't feel the need to keep plastering Tom with good comments, but I can't think of any bad comments on a musical level. There are a few techincal problems in my opinion, but I think I've already expressed them.

Incidently, it's been about a year now looking at different equipment setups, I'm not gonna jump into anything without being SURE it's right

 

[B.SABBATH]

I'm no good at explaining myself so I'd better shut up before people get mad at me..

I'll keep it short..

personally, a songwriting forum is useless to me, and I think it would bother certain people more to hear that someone doesn't like their song writing, as opposed to how it was mixed.. I know people say it wouldn't bother them, but that's obviously not true..

for me, the only help or input I want is on the sound.. Maybe certain people don't think they need that help anymore.. I don't know.. I'm here for the sound because no one here can help me with the writing.. I guess you (Tom) have progressed so far past me that I'm having trouble relating to you these days.. I'm still in the trenches in this war against bad sound, and I need my ass kicked as often as possible.. I love it when people are as critical about what they hear as they can be.. being critical about a mix doesn't effect or take away from my writing time at all.. they both go hand and hand with me.. it's all part of the grand creation process..

when I saw Pedullist critiquing someones critique, and then saw someone else apologizing for being critical, it bothered me..

I don't want things to become 'too soft.' Reading through this thread, it does at times sound like a big goodbye, or whatever you want to call it..

like me or hate me, these are my thoughts..

not sure what I'm trying to say here, but I hope things go how you want them to my friend.. You supply a lot of good music..

 

[SLuiCe]

Maybe certain people don't think they need that help anymore..

Sam, buddy. Again I think you're pulling some of my sentences out of context. I'm going to leave this alone for real after this but it's important to me to let you know that I feel almost everything I've said in this has been twisted by someone into something completely different than what I tried to say. It's not that I think I can't learn anymore. Why people are saying things like that I can only attribute to speed reading. And I should have considered that before I started "thinking out loud." This isn't meant to be a big dramatic good-bye or a "nobody understands my pain" bullshit discussion. And I have no real issues with anyone's comments about my work. I'm not interested in a song writing forum either. I'm just personally interested in changing my approach to making music. The only trouble I have with being known in this clinic is that I am constantly misinterpreted because I talk about things that aren't normally discussed here. So people sometimes read me in the wrong context. That's my own fault. I'm not looking for sympathy or guidance. Nor am I trying to guide anyone else. I'm just text on a forum trying to let a little of my human out. Big fucking mistake. I just wanted to encourage people to record what they feel. The same thing I've tried to encourage since I started posting here. To take risks. Not everyone needs to hear that, but some do. But I think because of who I am perceived to be I get taken in too many different ways.

And I don't think Pedullist meant any harm at all. And he conceeded that he misunderstood Qwerty's words. I don't think he a tore him a new one or anything. I read it more from a philisophical position. Exactly the same question I raised when I said:

My brain didn't get a chance to ruin it. I posted it without really thinking about it because I was by myself and wanted my friends to know how I felt right then. I'm not saying that this approach is right for everything. But the next day as I pulled myself together and listened to what I had recorded, I realized how much damage our brains often do to our music.

If you step back and look at this thread as a whole you'll possibly see that I've almost lost my girlfriend of three life changing years in large part because of all the time I've spent here worrying about my mix and others' mixes. That was terrifying for me.

Now I really wish I hadn't let this thread get so serious.

I'll leave it at that. Really this time. Best wishes Sam. And yes, things are getting better every day. Thank you.

Tom

 

[CanopuS]

Cool well I won't continue the off-topic talk, so I'll just good luck with all new stuff and keep posting it when you can!

Cheers,

Kit

 

[groucho]

Wow, in a lot of ways this thread showcases everything that's tedious about the internet:

One guy posts just expressing some thoughts.

Some other people take that to mean he's somehow prescribing behavior for others.

What in real life would simply be a conversation - or *exchange* of ideas - of course turns into some silly "debate".

I do think that there's a lot of speed-reading happening. In fact I've often suspected in the past that people rarely even bother to read most of what they're responding to.

And of course there's the usual condescending "fanboy" remarks. (I'm amazed the word "dicksucking" never appeared - webusers love that homo-erotic imagery) directed at anyone who recognizes another's skill.

It's all getting almost totally predictable, isn't it...

Chris

 

[CanopuS]

No words like "l337", "h4x" or "b0rk3d" yet. I'm working on it

 

[B.SABBATH]

I probably sound like an asshole in this thread.. not even sure why I posted.. I'm a bad communicator, which is probably why I record so much.. my apology's to anyone who wants it..

I'm out..


in the words of Al Pacino in Scarface,

"say goodbye to the bad guy!"


peace love and hair grease!

 

[B.SABBATH]

Tom - email on the way

 

[groucho]

Heh... we've got bad communicators, the overly sensative... the nitpicky and obsessive... sounds like a bunch of artist-types to me.

Let's all have a little laugh at ourselves, eh? It helps sometimes.

Chris

 

[Khompewtur]

Well i reread the whole thing carefully.

I don't think the things that Sam said were too far fetched. Honestly when i read the thread his interpretation was not too far off from mine. I thought it was a respectful goodbye though, nothing negative.

I don't think anyone can detect if someone is "feeling" more emotion in their music than another, but what sets Tom apart from most is that his technical prowess is able to convey and transport a greater amount of the emotion from the original idea to the listener.

You cannot say however, that everyone has not been trying to do the same thing all this time and that their "emotion quotient" is just getting lost in translation and the creative process, not by overanalyzing but perhaps by just underdeveloped skill. We've seen threads in here from people grappling with the grief of death and yet we might not even have have remembered them because of presentation.

Two reasons I can understand why this forum would become less useful for Tom. His technical mistakes are beyond detection for almost all of us so it is really rare for homerecording practitioners to offer him truly implementable advice. However i think the rest of us still need to develop these skills.

I have sat down with my acoustic guitar and played myself to misery or elation many times, but until I can capture that on tape I am just a guy with a guitar in his room. Can you keep the emotion fresh in the time it takes you to get it on tape (emotional shrinkage)? Work out the kinks(more emotional shrinkage)? Did the process somehow take away from the emotion(still more emotional shrinkage)?

The other thing is that i do detect a degree of reluctance to be critical of Tom. It's like if anyone said something critical of his work others would respond saying "Hush, you don't know what you're listening to".

Anyway Tom, breakups are really gut wrenching I didn't realize that was what was potentially at stake here, I hope things work out for the best. I think you've got skills and talent that are way ahead of the class so I'm sure that will pick you up when this emotional cloud passes. You know i respect your work, hell we've got collabs in the making. Chipper up, 'eeh dodger! Chip chum mate wot! (that is Limey for "Cheer up buddy")





p.s. I still do not know what a Linear Phase EQ or a Linear Phase Multiband does so if anyone knows what these are and how they differ from a regular EQ or regular Multiband, please PM me.

 

[Pedullist]

Emotional songs get emotional responses.

Seems only logical, captain.

Dr. Spock.